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March 29 2024 10.13am

Who’s right Brentford or us?

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View maddog's Profile maddog Flag Wiltshire 13 Aug 22 11.05pm Send a Private Message to maddog Add maddog as a friend

To go back to the question, a Brentford academy would be/will be competing against Chelsea and Fulham for footballing talent in west London. In contrast to Palace who are the only Premier League team in South London.

Buying unrecognised/undervalued quality is always going to be important for teams like Palace and Brentford and we do OK at it (Geuhi, Andersen, Ward, Ayew, MacArthur etc) but in the long term we need to draw in the young players from across South London. It’s a long term project which Palace, in their 10th PL season are investing in. Brentford are much more focussed on surviving their 2nd season.

 

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View doombear's Profile doombear Flag Too far from Selhurst Park 13 Aug 22 11.38pm Send a Private Message to doombear Add doombear as a friend

Originally posted by tonymikejoe

Well, what Brentford definitely have not done is haemorrhage money in the transfer market with zero return.

For example : Yohan Cabaye £10m - Left on a free.
: Connor Wickham £9m - Left on a free.
: Andros Townsend £13m - Left on a free.
: Christian Benteke £27m - Left on a free (ish)
: Patrick van Aanholt £13m - Left on a free.
: Mamadou Sakho £26m - Left on a free.
: Cheikhou Kouyate £10 - Left on a free.

These incredible losses are simply unsustainable for a club of our size.


and they won't continue under the new strategy, so move on,

 

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View doombear's Profile doombear Flag Too far from Selhurst Park 13 Aug 22 11.43pm Send a Private Message to doombear Add doombear as a friend

Originally posted by YT

In the last 4 seasons, Man Utd have finished (18/19 first): 6th, 3rd, 2nd, 6th.

Hate them though I do, I would call that "top".


???They haven't won the league since Fergie stepped down. They finished 2nd under Mourhino.

 

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View Daddyorc's Profile Daddyorc Flag Atlantic Highlands, NJ 13 Aug 22 11.51pm Send a Private Message to Daddyorc Add Daddyorc as a friend

A better measure is how many games they played for us. If a player (like Townsend) plays 4-5 seasons for us at 13m, it's a very successful transfer, even if they leave on a free. On the other hand Wickham was not.

Also, you fail to mention the very successful transfers, such as Ward, Ayew, Guiata, Bolaise, Zaha (back), etc.

Originally posted by tonymikejoe

Well, what Brentford definitely have not done is haemorrhage money in the transfer market with zero return.

For example : Yohan Cabaye £10m - Left on a free.
: Connor Wickham £9m - Left on a free.
: Andros Townsend £13m - Left on a free.
: Christian Benteke £27m - Left on a free (ish)
: Patrick van Aanholt £13m - Left on a free.
: Mamadou Sakho £26m - Left on a free.
: Cheikhou Kouyate £10 - Left on a free.

These incredible losses are simply unsustainable for a club of our size.

 

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View samprior's Profile samprior Flag Hamburg 13 Aug 22 11.59pm Send a Private Message to samprior Add samprior as a friend

Originally posted by Nicholas91

I'd argue that 'top' would at the very least be defined through proximity to first place in the domestic league. I'd say top 4/5 in that instance.

For a time (for me) it was almost exclusively Utd, L'pool, Chelsea, Arsenal with Spurs, Villa and Everton next but a lot further behind.

Now, I would consider it as City, L'pool, Chelsea, Spurs and maybe Arsenal with the rest quite a way off.

United can quite easily these days be described as a fallen giant and still look in decline from my perspective. I, for one, am delighted.

I would set the metrics as:

Rich
Big Stadium
Competing for top 4
Competitive in Europe
All the above for at least, say, 5 years/seasons

I would evaluate Utd, now as:

Rich Apparently not really and even if so of little consequence.
Big Stadium Yes still have that
Competing for top 4 No.
Competitive in Europe No
All the above for at least, say, 5 years/seasons No

Yes that'd some it up for me.

And what makes it even more enjoyable is the club and fans mostly think they are still a top club. I think they're due a few years in the wilderness now just like what arsenal seem to now be re emerging from.

 

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View Wilbraham413's Profile Wilbraham413 Flag 14 Aug 22 2.18am Send a Private Message to Wilbraham413 Add Wilbraham413 as a friend

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. Brentford decided that their academy wouldn't justify its cost to operate. Given our excellent catchment area, I think it makes sense to have a good academy.

Chelsea has a zillion dollars, and they churn out a neverending stream of very valuable players from their academy. There's no reason we can't do that too.

I think our plan is good, and let's give it some time to see what rewards we get from our academy.

 


2017 Feb. (Van Aanholt) Palace 1 - 0 Middlesboro
2018 Jan. (Sako) Palace 1 - 0 Burnley
2019 May (Batshuayi, Batshuayi, OG, Van Aanholt, Townsend) Palace 5 - 3 Bournemouth
2020 Feb. (Van Aanholt) Palace 1 - 0 Newcastle

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View YT's Profile YT Flag Oxford 14 Aug 22 6.28am Send a Private Message to YT Add YT as a friend

Originally posted by doombear


???They haven't won the league since Fergie stepped down. They finished 2nd under Mourhino.

Are you doombear or doombrain? "18/19 first" - in brackets - was to explain the order of the league finish stats that followed!

 


Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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View sydtheeagle's Profile sydtheeagle Flag England 14 Aug 22 10.47pm Send a Private Message to sydtheeagle Add sydtheeagle as a friend

Originally posted by tonymikejoe

Well, what Brentford definitely have not done is haemorrhage money in the transfer market with zero return.

For example : Yohan Cabaye £10m - Left on a free.
: Connor Wickham £9m - Left on a free.
: Andros Townsend £13m - Left on a free.
: Christian Benteke £27m - Left on a free (ish)
: Patrick van Aanholt £13m - Left on a free.
: Mamadou Sakho £26m - Left on a free.
: Cheikhou Kouyate £10 - Left on a free.

These incredible losses are simply unsustainable for a club of our size.

1. With respect, they ARE sustainable. We're still here and healthy, aren't we?

2. They didn't leave for no return. No fee, true, but a very good return on investment. We're still in the Prem ten years later, aren't we? In almost all those cases, we bought mature players, got their best years, and let them run down their contracts. They weren't bought as young players you'd expect to be able to sell on for a profit.

3. Of the above, only Sakho in my view seriously under-delivered. Beneteke's 15 goal-season just about keeps him above the waterline. The others all contributed far more than we paid for them.

4. Signing a mature player, getting 2-4 good years out of him and letting him run down his contract and move on is a perfectly sustainable business model. Our current position both in the table and at the bank proves it.

 


Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

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View Willo's Profile Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 14 Aug 22 10.54pm Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by sydtheeagle

1. With respect, they ARE sustainable. We're still here and healthy, aren't we?

2. They didn't leave for no return. No fee, true, but a very good return on investment. We're still in the Prem ten years later, aren't we? In almost all those cases, we bought mature players, got their best years, and let them run down their contracts. They weren't bought as young players you'd expect to be able to sell on for a profit.

3. Of the above, only Sakho in my view seriously under-delivered. Beneteke's 15 goal-season just about keeps him above the waterline. The others all contributed far more than we paid for them.

4. Signing a mature player, getting 2-4 good years out of him and letting him run down his contract and move on is a perfectly sustainable business model. Our current position both in the table and at the bank proves it.

I concur with the general thrust of your sentiments.

In my humble opinion whilst we never made a profit on them it has been the experienced players who have been pivotal in keeping us in the PL.

 

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View sydtheeagle's Profile sydtheeagle Flag England 14 Aug 22 10.55pm Send a Private Message to sydtheeagle Add sydtheeagle as a friend

Originally posted by Nicholas91

I would set the metrics as:

Rich
Big Stadium
Competing for top 4
Competitive in Europe
All the above for at least, say, 5 years/seasons

"Big" is the wrong metric for a stadium as it relates only to size. Big does help in that there are a few more seats to put bums on, but Old Trafford is a s*** stadium, big or not. What matters now is incremental revenue. A "top" stadium needs top facilities. More executive areas (that's where the money is really made) and better facilities and outlets (food, retail, etc.) Old Trafford struggles in all those areas. Spurs stadium has around 15,000 fewer seats than United's so it's not bigger, but it generates a whole lot more revenue due to the way it's appointed and that's what matters. In crude terms, you'd rather have 50,000 fans tempted to spend £20 at a match due to the attractive fare on offer than 75,000 paying £5 each. So United actually fail (or just get by) on the stadium measure too.

An interesting side note to underline the point. Two top hospitality seats at Anfield tonight will cost you £3,750-odd. That's the same amount of revenue you'd raise from 1,000 normal seats at £37.50 each. In short, these days a "big" (or top) stadium isn't measured by crowd capacity but by the quality of experience you can offer. For us, that's a big problem because much as we all love Selhurst, the incremental revenue potential (and facilities) are uniformly horrendous. I think that's what the new stand really aims to change, as opposed to simply expanding capacity.

Edited by sydtheeagle (15 Aug 2022 10.00am)

 


Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

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View TheBigToePunt's Profile TheBigToePunt Flag 15 Aug 22 10.12am Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

I haven't got the time to look it up now, but I'm pretty sure that Premier League clubs have to have academies and that one of the reasons Brentford ditched theirs in favour of an informal u21/reserve team is that they were outside of the Premier League at the time, and so not caught by the rules.

 

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View Willo's Profile Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 15 Aug 22 10.16am Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

I haven't got the time to look it up now, but I'm pretty sure that Premier League clubs have to have academies and that one of the reasons Brentford ditched theirs in favour of an informal u21/reserve team is that they were outside of the Premier League at the time, and so not caught by the rules.

I am certainly NOT a reader of the 'Guardian' but I discovered the following link :

[Link]

 

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