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 Mapletree  Croydon 29 Jan 23 10.04pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Would you say that if she were Black and or a Democrat? I doubt it. In fact, I'm sure neither you or Wisbech would. Of course I would. Break in to a high security establishment full of armed guards in a country where shooting is standard, what do you get. I wouldn’t have done it. Not a ‘jolly outing’. Many of those inside were very scared for their lives. Unlike you, I have no hang ups about colour. I will sack you no matter what you look like.
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 Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 29 Jan 23 10.26pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Was she armed? No How can you possibly suggest that she deserved to be shot dead? In your sinister world, it seems that only Black people and Democrats can be victims of unjust killing, and only if the Black people are killed by White people. Everyone else is just collateral. You are seeing things in my comments that are not there. I haven’t said she deserved to be shot dead! What I said is the simple truth. She had neither a right nor a legitimate reason to be where she was, doing what she was doing. The mob she was engaged with were trying to subvert the democratic process, using violence and threats of violence to achieve their aims. They must have anticipated their actions would be resisted for such things cannot be allowed to succeed. She put herself in that situation. Nobody forced her. She was unlucky. No-one deserves to be unlucky. She could though have avoided that bad luck by not behaving so stupidly in the first place.
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| Stirlingsays 29 Jan 23 10.46pm |
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Like everything with this version of the left, the control of language is what matters to them, not what an objective truth is.....they are only interested in their own narratives. Look at what actually happens. A white person dies, nothing. A non white person dies, the media never stops with it....claims of racism, whether true or untrue are neither here nor there they make as much political capital as possible out of it. Once again, I have to challenge the nonsense that what happened on January six was an attempt at overthrowing an election. Errrr....to do that requires a coup, that requires guns...you know actually firing and killing people... and the coordinated taking over of power centres around a country to replace the power brokers. To achieve it you need the military to turn onto your side. It can't be done without a military and all these lies are nothing but pure political capital. The US state continues to this day to keep its own citizens in solitary confinement based upon lies. That form of political persecution used to be what non western countries did, one's we would call banana republics. They are the people who actually murdered people that day with a bullet and then whitewashed the incompetent cop. Go watch the actual video of her death. Anyone objective who does that can see the horrible difference between a narrative and what actually happened. I also hear there is also a claim from video footage that Police were responsible for a woman dying outside....but I don't know, it's just a claim at this stage. Instead these are the people who chose to lie about a cop, who died of a heart attack after the event as having been killed by the event.....something they have and had no proof of. A fantasy of lies, built and maintained by liars.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Mapletree Croydon 29 Jan 23 11.03pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Like everything with this version of the left, the control of language is what matters to them, not what an objective truth is.....they are only interested in their own narratives. Look at what actually happens. A white person dies, nothing. A non white person dies, the media never stops with it....claims of racism, whether true or untrue are neither here nor there they make as much political capital as possible out of it. Once again, I have to challenge the nonsense that what happened on January six was an attempt at overthrowing an election. Errrr....to do that requires a coup, that requires guns...you know actually firing and killing people... and the coordinated taking over of power centres around a country to replace the power brokers. To achieve it you need the military to turn onto your side. It can't be done without a military and all these lies are nothing but pure political capital. The US state continues to this day to keep its own citizens in solitary confinement based upon lies. That form of political persecution used to be what non western countries did, one's we would call banana republics. They are the people who actually murdered people that day with a bullet and then whitewashed the incompetent cop. Go watch the actual video of her death. Anyone objective who does that can see the horrible difference between a narrative and what actually happened. I also hear there is also a claim from video footage that Police were responsible for a woman dying outside....but I don't know, it's just a claim at this stage. Instead these are the people who chose to lie about a cop, who died of a heart attack after the event as having been killed by the event.....something they have and had no proof of. A fantasy of lies, built and maintained by liars. Edited by Stirlingsays (29 Jan 2023 10.51pm) Not heard of the Velvet Revolution then?
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| Stirlingsays 30 Jan 23 12.09am |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Not heard of the Velvet Revolution then? The communist government after the collapse of other Warsaw Pact governments? Without that collapse it would have been the same story as all the other communist uprisings. They chose to not turn their guns on their people. That's what it takes and you know that very well. That's very very rare and your chosen side would have shot every single one of them if they seriously thought their power was threatened. It all comes down to who the men with guns decide to back....and while the military are majority right wing, they are still deluded enough to believe that these leaders are worth protecting. Welcome in recession and cold war with a child sniffing zombie. Edited by Stirlingsays (30 Jan 2023 12.10am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 30 Jan 23 8.08am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Like everything with this version of the left, the control of language is what matters to them, not what an objective truth is.....they are only interested in their own narratives. Look at what actually happens. A white person dies, nothing. A non white person dies, the media never stops with it....claims of racism, whether true or untrue are neither here nor there they make as much political capital as possible out of it. Once again, I have to challenge the nonsense that what happened on January six was an attempt at overthrowing an election. Errrr....to do that requires a coup, that requires guns...you know actually firing and killing people... and the coordinated taking over of power centres around a country to replace the power brokers. To achieve it you need the military to turn onto your side. It can't be done without a military and all these lies are nothing but pure political capital. The US state continues to this day to keep its own citizens in solitary confinement based upon lies. That form of political persecution used to be what non western countries did, one's we would call banana republics. They are the people who actually murdered people that day with a bullet and then whitewashed the incompetent cop. Go watch the actual video of her death. Anyone objective who does that can see the horrible difference between a narrative and what actually happened. I also hear there is also a claim from video footage that Police were responsible for a woman dying outside....but I don't know, it's just a claim at this stage. Instead these are the people who chose to lie about a cop, who died of a heart attack after the event as having been killed by the event.....something they have and had no proof of. A fantasy of lies, built and maintained by liars.
How sad it is to see the level of indoctrination that occurs when someone becomes obsessed with believing the nonsense to be found in some US right wing podcasts. Most people in the UK, whether they be right leaning, left leaning or, like me, in the centre, would, in my opinion, completely reject the narrative above. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the skin colour of the person involved and to try to claim it has is a barely disguised conspiracy theory of the worst kind. Just because the attempt at an insurrection was foolish and bound to fail doesn't mean it wasn't an attempt. It was stoked by a foolish POTUS. Whether he and his cabal seriously thought it could succeed is open to question but those involved did. The state did what it had to do, which was to ensure the attempt failed in the safest way possible, given the resources available and the time those responsible for decision-making had to react. No-one was murdered. To suggest they were is an outrageous slur on those charged with trying to resist the mob and protect the people's elected representatives. Videos show just a few moments and not the whole picture. They always need to be set in their context. The individual involved may well have panicked under threats and pressure. I haven't read the investigation, but no-body could be adequately prepared and trained for such an event. It was certainly unfortunate but it wasn't murder. Anyone deliberately placing themselves into a situation like that risks what happened to Bobbitt. The blame, and the blood, lies squarely and only, on the hands of those who incited the mob to do what they did. Which is what, in due time, and following due process, will be established. If the Police have failed in their duty they will undoubtably be investigated and held to account. That's what responsible societies do.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Badger11 Beckenham 30 Jan 23 8.52am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
How sad it is to see the level of indoctrination that occurs when someone becomes obsessed with believing the nonsense to be found in some US right wing podcasts. Most people in the UK, whether they be right leaning, left leaning or, like me, in the centre, would, in my opinion, completely reject the narrative above. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the skin colour of the person involved and to try to claim it has is a barely disguised conspiracy theory of the worst kind. Just because the attempt at an insurrection was foolish and bound to fail doesn't mean it wasn't an attempt. It was stoked by a foolish POTUS. Whether he and his cabal seriously thought it could succeed is open to question but those involved did. The state did what it had to do, which was to ensure the attempt failed in the safest way possible, given the resources available and the time those responsible for decision-making had to react. No-one was murdered. To suggest they were is an outrageous slur on those charged with trying to resist the mob and protect the people's elected representatives. Videos show just a few moments and not the whole picture. They always need to be set in their context. The individual involved may well have panicked under threats and pressure. I haven't read the investigation, but no-body could be adequately prepared and trained for such an event. It was certainly unfortunate but it wasn't murder. Anyone deliberately placing themselves into a situation like that risks what happened to Bobbitt. The blame, and the blood, lies squarely and only, on the hands of those who incited the mob to do what they did. Which is what, in due time, and following due process, will be established. If the Police have failed in their duty they will undoubtably be investigated and held to account. That's what responsible societies do. I wouldn't hold your breath. Responsibility for Capitol policing lies with Congress there were sufficient warnings about the riot yet between Congress and the Police seniors they managed not to have enough officers on patrol that day. I think both police and politicians are far more interested in going after the rioters then examining why this was a failure in leadership and oversight.
One more point |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 30 Jan 23 11.51am |
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Originally posted by Badger11
I wouldn't hold your breath. Responsibility for Capitol policing lies with Congress there were sufficient warnings about the riot yet between Congress and the Police seniors they managed not to have enough officers on patrol that day. I think both police and politicians are far more interested in going after the rioters then examining why this was a failure in leadership and oversight. There is already a Congressional enquiry underway which, with the House now under Republican control, will likely shift its emphasis and try to allocate blame to anyone but Trump. So blaming the Capitol police looks a very likely scenario to me.
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| Badger11 Beckenham 30 Jan 23 11.58am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
There is already a Congressional enquiry underway which, with the House now under Republican control, will likely shift its emphasis and try to allocate blame to anyone but Trump. So blaming the Capitol police looks a very likely scenario to me. Exactly blame the police and not the politicians. I believe the committee that oversees Capitol policing is cross party so it's in both parties interests to look for blame elsewhere. I maybe wrong on this point but I thought in the aftermath the (now sacked) police chief did say he had asked for extra resources and had been ignored.
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HKOwen  Hong Kong 30 Jan 23 12.07pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
Exactly blame the police and not the politicians. I believe the committee that oversees Capitol policing is cross party so it's in both parties interests to look for blame elsewhere. I maybe wrong on this point but I thought in the aftermath the (now sacked) police chief did say he had asked for extra resources and had been ignored. Some people want a two headed coin in every discussion. If the woman killed was unlucky so was George Floyd based on the same logic. What a load of manure is spouted by the usual suspects. Edited by HKOwen (30 Jan 2023 12.07pm)
Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance. |
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| HKOwen Hong Kong 30 Jan 23 12.08pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
I wouldn't hold your breath. Responsibility for Capitol policing lies with Congress there were sufficient warnings about the riot yet between Congress and the Police seniors they managed not to have enough officers on patrol that day. I think both police and politicians are far more interested in going after the rioters then examining why this was a failure in leadership and oversight. Agree
Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 30 Jan 23 12.53pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
Exactly blame the police and not the politicians. I believe the committee that oversees Capitol policing is cross party so it's in both parties interests to look for blame elsewhere. I maybe wrong on this point but I thought in the aftermath the (now sacked) police chief did say he had asked for extra resources and had been ignored. The only politician deserving of blame is the one who incited the mob. The others were terrified, confused and relying on their security. Whether new arrangements have now been introduced as a consequence of what was learned I don't know, but I would hope so. Equally, whether any individual officer failed to do their duty is something an investigation will reveal. I believe there are several underway, not just the Congressional one, which will indeed see political point scoring. It might be cross-party, but it will now be chaired and dominated by the Republicans. Thankfully the Democrats made some telling points in their interim report and handed their file to the Justice Department.
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