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March 28 2024 1.47pm

Shaun Derry

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View sydtheeagle's Profile sydtheeagle Flag England 01 Feb 23 8.52am Send a Private Message to sydtheeagle Add sydtheeagle as a friend

Originally posted by YT

Are you telling us this or asking us?

Hasn't Derry always been a bit of a loose cannon/not a corporate man? I think I remember he left Notts County, where he had some initial success at least as a manager, because there was a falling out of some sort. Not being critical; I think he's one of those guys who marches to his own drummer and is probably beloved of his players as a result. But in this day and age and in the PL, that sort of thing probably doesn't work in the more "corporate" football environment.

 


Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

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View AmericanEagle's Profile AmericanEagle Flag West Yorkshire 01 Feb 23 10.42am Send a Private Message to AmericanEagle Add AmericanEagle as a friend

Nothing to do with the number of his players sent out on loan in this window?

 

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 01 Feb 23 11.13am Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

I still expect for another job but could be wrong.

 


Red and Blue Army!

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 01 Feb 23 12.43pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

I suppose, if you think about it, Derry may have said: why loan an Arsenal player who's hardly played and not been great - instead of using say Ozoh. He may also have said: why pay 10.5 mil for pretty raw talent, again not exactly massively featured instead of promoting from within? And I guess they are genuine questions. If either does not play well, or isn't used, then these questions will come up again. It's not like our signings have played much more than our own academy players. I guess Derry could have thought this was a poor message for the club to give to promising youngsters in the area.
Add to that the Irish and Scottish lads and suddenly there doesn't seem to be that much of a point in the academy. You can get a loan to League One, or go somewhere else play a few games and then we buy you for ten mil as a raw talent.

 


Red and Blue Army!

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View doombear's Profile doombear Flag Too far from Selhurst Park 01 Feb 23 1.03pm Send a Private Message to doombear Add doombear as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

I suppose, if you think about it, Derry may have said: why loan an Arsenal player who's hardly played and not been great - instead of using say Ozoh. He may also have said: why pay 10.5 mil for pretty raw talent, again not exactly massively featured instead of promoting from within? And I guess they are genuine questions. If either does not play well, or isn't used, then these questions will come up again. It's not like our signings have played much more than our own academy players. I guess Derry could have thought this was a poor message for the club to give to promising youngsters in the area.
Add to that the Irish and Scottish lads and suddenly there doesn't seem to be that much of a point in the academy. You can get a loan to League One, or go somewhere else play a few games and then we buy you for ten mil as a raw talent.


Lokonga has played 39 times for Arsenal over the last season and this with 25 of those appearances in the PL (14 starts) so he should be ready to start for us whenever PV wants him to.

 

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 01 Feb 23 1.09pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by doombear


Lokonga has played 39 times for Arsenal over the last season and this with 25 of those appearances in the PL (14 starts) so he should be ready to start for us whenever PV wants him to.

I get it - it's not exactly loads though is it? Nor the other fella. I'm not making a value judgement on these players - they could be great. However, Ozoh may be just as good once we start using him (if ever). Plus, would academy players think nothing of this? And their parents/ agents? Personally, I would be a little disappointed if my son were there. I hadn't really thought about this way until today. I was just as caught up with wanting players in as anyone else.

 


Red and Blue Army!

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View doombear's Profile doombear Flag Too far from Selhurst Park 01 Feb 23 1.59pm Send a Private Message to doombear Add doombear as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

I get it - it's not exactly loads though is it? Nor the other fella. I'm not making a value judgement on these players - they could be great. However, Ozoh may be just as good once we start using him (if ever). Plus, would academy players think nothing of this? And their parents/ agents? Personally, I would be a little disappointed if my son were there. I hadn't really thought about this way until today. I was just as caught up with wanting players in as anyone else.


No it's not but it does mean that he should be PL ready and could hit the ground running and given our dire midfield options this season, we need someone who can start on Saturday if PV deems it appropriate.

Bringing Ozoh off the bench as PV did should have sent a positive message to him about his longer term future at Palace. He may well be disappointed because, yes, he's now further away from a regular 1st team place, but although we're not in immediate relegation trouble, had we not strengthened in this window we may have been drawn into that battle. Ultimately, the club's future is more important than any individual player's.

If Ahamada delivers then Ozoh may end up out on loan next season. The youngsters will know that loans out are the first step to progression from the Academy teams. It will be something they will see as a positive step (they may well dream of being called up to our 1st team because of an injury crisis as was the case with both AWB and Mitchell) but I'd rather not have the injury crisis in the first place.

As to the purpose of the Academy. It will be a requirement of being in the PL that a club has an academy. Brentford are currently busy setting one up in time for the regulations coming into effect in a couple of years time.

 

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View berlinpalace's Profile berlinpalace Flag berlin 01 Feb 23 2.45pm Send a Private Message to berlinpalace Add berlinpalace as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

I get it - it's not exactly loads though is it? Nor the other fella. I'm not making a value judgement on these players - they could be great. However, Ozoh may be just as good once we start using him (if ever). Plus, would academy players think nothing of this? And their parents/ agents? Personally, I would be a little disappointed if my son were there. I hadn't really thought about this way until today. I was just as caught up with wanting players in as anyone else.

But if you see the interviews with the acadamy lads they do get to train with the first team fairly regularly and for most of them it will be a gradual progression. Unless someone is showing young Wilf qualities there's no point throwing them into the first team and hoping for the best. It may well be that Ozoh is going to be good enough to step up but at the moment he's not even at the Killian Phillips or John-kymani Gordon level. The JKG interview when he scored his first for Carlisle is well worth a listen if you want to appreciate what the young players think.

 

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View sydtheeagle's Profile sydtheeagle Flag England 01 Feb 23 2.51pm Send a Private Message to sydtheeagle Add sydtheeagle as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

I suppose, if you think about it, Derry may have said: why loan an Arsenal player who's hardly played and not been great - instead of using say Ozoh. He may also have said: why pay 10.5 mil for pretty raw talent, again not exactly massively featured instead of promoting from within? And I guess they are genuine questions. If either does not play well, or isn't used, then these questions will come up again. It's not like our signings have played much more than our own academy players. I guess Derry could have thought this was a poor message for the club to give to promising youngsters in the area.
Add to that the Irish and Scottish lads and suddenly there doesn't seem to be that much of a point in the academy. You can get a loan to League One, or go somewhere else play a few games and then we buy you for ten mil as a raw talent.

Good post. If Derry had indeed said the things you mooted, then he's an idiot.

"Derry may have said: why loan an Arsenal player who's hardly played and not been great - instead of using say Ozoh"

Answer: Because one has around 100 games of top-flight experience (Anderlecht AND Arsenal) under his belt and, other than a recent loss of form, HAS been very good throughout most of his career. We KNOW what Lokonga is capable of at top level, even if he's not been able to show it in the past few months. We have NO IDEA what Ozoh is capable of at this level and while he should be given a chance to show us, he's best being brought along slowly. There's simply a word of difference between the two in the here and how.

"He may also have said: why pay 10.5 mil for pretty raw talent, again not exactly massively featured instead of promoting from within?"

Answer: This makes Derry the man who, at Brighton a year ago, said "let's not sign Caceido. I don't trust our scouts." That would have worked out well, wouldn't it? Besides which, Ahamada is young and developing, but he's NOT a raw talent. He has at least some experience of playing regularly in a top European league.

 


Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

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View Lanzo-Ad's Profile Lanzo-Ad Flag Lanzarote 01 Feb 23 3.18pm Send a Private Message to Lanzo-Ad Add Lanzo-Ad as a friend

Originally posted by sydtheeagle

Good post. If Derry had indeed said the things you mooted, then he's an idiot.

"Derry may have said: why loan an Arsenal player who's hardly played and not been great - instead of using say Ozoh"

Answer: Because one has around 100 games of top-flight experience (Anderlecht AND Arsenal) under his belt and, other than a recent loss of form, HAS been very good throughout most of his career. We KNOW what Lokonga is capable of at top level, even if he's not been able to show it in the past few months. We have NO IDEA what Ozoh is capable of at this level and while he should be given a chance to show us, he's best being brought along slowly. There's simply a word of difference between the two in the here and how.

"He may also have said: why pay 10.5 mil for pretty raw talent, again not exactly massively featured instead of promoting from within?"

Answer: This makes Derry the man who, at Brighton a year ago, said "let's not sign Caceido. I don't trust our scouts." That would have worked out well, wouldn't it? Besides which, Ahamada is young and developing, but he's NOT a raw talent. He has at least some experience of playing regularly in a top European league.

I understand what you say Syd, but did he actually say anything.

 


“That’s a joke son, I say, that’s a joke.” “Nice boy, but he’s sharp as a throw pillow.” “He’s so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent” “ “Son… I say, son, some people are so narrow minded they can look through a keyhole with both eyes.”__ Forhorn Leghorn

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 01 Feb 23 3.24pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Lanzo-Ad

I understand what you say Syd, but did he actually say anything.

I was merely playing devil's advocate. Anything literally could have happened. Just pure supposition.
As I said previously, he may have a shot at a management job.

 


Red and Blue Army!

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View sydtheeagle's Profile sydtheeagle Flag England 01 Feb 23 4.27pm Send a Private Message to sydtheeagle Add sydtheeagle as a friend

It's interesting because there's clearly a story here. Parish is rightly big on promoting from within, and I believe when PV was hired having an existing member of the club coaching team was more or less imposed on him so I don't imagine if Derry was fired, it would have been done without a good reason. And if he left voluntarily because he has a manager's job or something else lined up, you'd usually say that; "one of our coaches is moving up the career ladder" is broadly good publicity. So you have to think there's an "adverse" story somewhere in here somewhere. Plus, as I said, Derry has a history of being a man who does things his own way.

TBH, on a personal level I'll miss him because I like continuity in the club and I always liked Derry as a player. But I'm inclined to think from a pure coaching standpoint, it's no great loss. And I presume that's how PV feels too, as we haven't had the obligatory press release thanking Derry for his services, and noting how much he'd contributed to the club. Possibly even, we've weeded out a bad apple.

What I do think is, as I've said before, things were going stale. We've looked out of sorts for some weeks now. We needed a shake-up and some refreshing...needed it badly...and two new players and presumably a new voice in the coaching team if Derry is going to be replaced is in my view, a good start and no bad thing. I'll be interested to see if we push on and show a little more life over the next few weeks.

 


Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

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