one nation, one religion.....helps to avoid a lot of bother.

Shall we start with the Roman Catholics, not the religion of England, being the biggest issue post Reformation in the UK and globally vis a vis global population issues?

We had the ideal opportunity to have a good cull a couple of years ago, but no, some eejit invented a vaccine.

I think what you need to understand is that the population could reach 15 to 20 billion before it declines. No one can be sure.

Not only that, but migration to more prosperous countries will increase rapidly. You can see the beginning of this trend already.
For sure, global birth rate is declining, but the effect will be too little too late. The upgrading of Third World countries might encourage some to stay put, but the extra demands on resources this creates will only help us to arrive at the day when supply can no longer meet demand, or more accurately, need.

I suppose no one wants to admit this because people will be afraid, and the solutions would not be palatable to most people.

I'm quite happy for you to believe that there is nothing to see here because you might sleep better at night.

I would add that there has been a rapid decline in male testosterone and fertility rates in Western countries. This is very bad news for Northern Europeans, and one wonders why no one is more concerned by this. Labour demands and climate change will make for Britain becoming unrecognisable within 100 years.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (22 Feb 2023 10.15pm)

All you’re really concerned about is population (genetic) replacement, not population growth per se.

Just say it - don’t mask it behind a debunked 50 year old theory.

Anyway. The population could reach 100 billion. Any old unqualified figures can be banded about on a forum but I’d rather understandably go with current general consensus and probability - a scenario of around 12 billion before decline.

There are far better ways to manage and distribute essential resources - if we don’t move towards a model that does, and fast, the population could level off now at 8bn and we’d still have serious issues because of our gluttonous, unthinking approach to resources.

And on your constant topic of migration and immigration

‘Only 29% of people in the UK in 2022 said priority over jobs should go to local people, compared with 65% when the same question was asked in 2009.’

‘The findings come as employers call for more migration to help fill more than 1m vacancies.’

The combination of a declining and aging population, in a mature economy, means unless you can somehow reduce the cost of having children and existing to a reasonable level or magically bring forward mass automation by 50 years you’re going to need significant immigration to keep the economy afloat. If you don’t do that everything declines anyway - so I’m afraid you’re either going to have to move to a small, self sustainable island community or deal with reality

Edited by SW19 CPFC (23 Feb 2023 8.24am)

I'm concerned by all aspects of population since they will affect my grandchildren.

Nothing has been debunked. What you have is yet another highly politicised topic where the noisy Left claim that anything related to immigration is a far right wing conspiracy.

My primary concern is obviously for England, and it won't take a population of 15 or 20 billion world wide to spell disaster for us.
Today, we cannot cope with illegal migration and it is currently at a trickle. Imagine what will happen when a serious climatic or conflict event occurs. It may not even require that. It could simply be economic migration.

It amuses me when employers talk of needing immigrants for vacancies. The population is vastly bigger than it was 20 years ago and yet still not enough people?

It's nonsense. We might have more non working old people but those coming here now will also get old. It is a cycle of population increase and need to service it. It is a self defeating principle. A growing population will alway need more and more commerse and servcies to support it and therefore it makes no sense to keep increasing population size.

There are finite resources and infastructure which is much closer to collapse than most people want to think. A different model must be sought.
Greedy business always wants cheap labour. It always will. They cannot dictate our policy because globalism is stripping away everything it means to be English and reducing life quality for the vast majority.

You can spin it however you like but the evidence is everywhere.

Our culture is being wrecked and our country is sinking under the demands of ever increasing numbers.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (23 Feb 2023 1.46pm)

You're demonstrably more concerned about the immigration lens on all issues, including this one. Pretty much every issue you contribute on is framed by immigration, or teed up to crowbar it in.

Anyway

The population bomb theory has recently been reappraised by... Paul Ehrlich. Who co-wrote it. It's almost as though things have changed since 1968... some great quotes actually

'We were worried then about the problems of feeding human society when there was three and a half billion people on the planet. Now we've got way over seven billion people.'

'The problem isn’t that there’s not enough to go around, says Ehrlich – the problem is that it’s not going around to everyone.'

'But it certainly is the case that there are a bunch of mistakes in The Population Bomb. Any scientist who is asked about his work 50 years before who still and particularly one it’s a broad thing, who still thinks exactly the same thing he thought 50 years before is a pretty weak scientist.'

'What was underestimated was the brilliance of many subsistence farmers who knew a lot more about what they could do on their land than a lot of the people at industrial agriculture.'

Are we headed toward what nine or 10 billion people? More likely 11.

Tell me anything social that you try and get done in a country like just the United States that will not be taken over by racists and used or by crazy economically give me more money people for their own purposes. On the other hand, what we did say and I've always said is that the last thing you want to try is coercion and I’ve never supported coercive policies.

Now we haven't gotten where we need to be in terms of gender equity, but we’ve surely moved or maybe the most surprising thing is the speed with which people understood that it’s nobody else’s damn business how you enjoy sex as long as you're not hurting somebody. And that took place with us at almost blinding speed and of course some of the real dopes don't get it yet but they will.

Needless to say a lot of that chimes with my previous post re. population, human ingenuity, there being more than enough to go around and greed and waste being more significant issues than overpopulation.

On the worker shortage – well there are significant vacancies, so if it's nonsense, they'd be filled. People need to be qualified or skilled in the sectors that need workers. And they also need people willing to do so. Clearly we have a significant lack of both. Hence the fallback on migrant labour.

Immigration does not result in a cycle of population increase if the birthrate is declining and you have an ageing population that is dying off. Which is where we are heading, and we're going to get there before automation fills the gap.

When labour shortages start affecting quality of life in mature economies over the coming decades I'm pretty sure people will quite quickly become more pro-immigration.

I'd agree that things are much closer to collapse than most realise, but there are many solutions to those problems, some that have not yet been thought of, and talk of 15-20 billion is, based on current consensus and observable fact is hyperbole. We can cope with a few more billion, but only if we manage things better. Population isn't the issue per se. It's how we manage and distribute our resources fairly and effectively.

Our good friend Paul clearly agrees on that one.