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  Wisbech Eagle  Truro Cornwall 15 Mar 23 11.21pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Was Gary Glitter really the key point of the question? No, but it wasn't me who introduced him as some kind of weird analogy. All I am doing is pointing out how weird it is. The basic point is simple. People ought not, in any circumstances, allow their personal beliefs to interfere with their professional duties. If they seem something of concern then they report it. Bakers aren't morality policemen or lawyers. They are bakers. Teachers teach the curriculum. If that says you teach sex education then you teach it, irrespective of what your personal religious beliefs might be. If you cannot do that, then you try to negotiate a move to another subject area, and if that's impossible you cannot teach. Bakers bake. They can subcontract the baking to another baker, or if that's impossible and they cannot accept doing things against their beliefs then they must stop offering to accept third party work, and just make then own offerings. It's neither complicated nor unreasonable. Everybody has a choice and everybody knows where they stand.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Teddy Eagle  15 Mar 23 11.28pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
No, but it wasn't me who introduced him as some kind of weird analogy. All I am doing is pointing out how weird it is. The basic point is simple. People ought not, in any circumstances, allow their personal beliefs to interfere with their professional duties. If they seem something of concern then they report it. Bakers aren't morality policemen or lawyers. They are bakers. Teachers teach the curriculum. If that says you teach sex education then you teach it, irrespective of what your personal religious beliefs might be. If you cannot do that, then you try to negotiate a move to another subject area, and if that's impossible you cannot teach. Bakers bake. They can subcontract the baking to another baker, or if that's impossible and they cannot accept doing things against their beliefs then they must stop offering to accept third party work, and just make then own offerings. It's neither complicated nor unreasonable. Everybody has a choice and everybody knows where they stand. Not in real life. Will Halal businesses produce anything critical, or even questioning, of their beliefs? Ask Salman Rushdie how that's liable to work out.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 15 Mar 23 11.54pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Not in real life. Will Halal businesses produce anything critical, or even questioning, of their beliefs? Ask Salman Rushdie how that's liable to work out. I don't for a moment deny the difficulty but making sure that these attitudes are consigned to history in our country is essential. Just because something is hard doesn't mean you don't do it. If you don't start the journey you will never reach your destination. Framing it the way I propose, and applying it to everyone, removes the argument that anyone is being discriminated against
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| Bert the Head Epsom 16 Mar 23 12.00am |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
The Guardian. Left wing
The Times, neutral. Yes. Predominantly leftist. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (15 Mar 2023 11.15am)
They do not support any shift of wealth and power from the rich to working people as a left wing paper would. Unfortunately, the Labour Party has no agenda to do this either but they will be competent enough as a `night watchman' to keep things ticking over undisturned until the Tory Party comes back to it's senses and is trusted enough to carry on the class war of discreetly moving wealth from ordinary people to rich people as has been the case for the last forty years. You have included the Sunday Mirror but not the Mail on Sunday, The Sunday Express or the Spectator. The majority of Media is right wing. It is a more sophisticated version of the Berlin Wall. It has kept people supporting an attack on the post war consensus that is against their interests just as the Berlin wall tried to lock people in East Europe into communism. The media doesn't tell us want to think but tells us what to think about; Its never about how wealth has moved from working people to rich people or how entrenched privilege is in the UK. It never talks about us living in the sixth richest country in the world while having social benefits, like pensions, child care, housing costs working hours, that compare less favourably with many countries far less wealthy. It tells us to think about the glories of the past as if the Spitfire is relevant to modern Britain. It wants us to live in a nostalgic fantasy while supporting a slow burning class war that mugs us off.
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| Teddy Eagle 16 Mar 23 12.03am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I don't for a moment deny the difficulty but making sure that these attitudes are consigned to history in our country is essential. Just because something is hard doesn't mean you don't do it. If you don't start the journey you will never reach your destination. Framing it the way I propose, and applying it to everyone, removes the argument that anyone is being discriminated against If you can name anyone prepared to put that plan into action then fair enough let's give it a go, but again in real life it's never going to happen.
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| georgenorman 16 Mar 23 6.11am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
No, but it wasn't me who introduced him as some kind of weird analogy. All I am doing is pointing out how weird it is. The basic point is simple. People ought not, in any circumstances, allow their personal beliefs to interfere with their professional duties. If they seem something of concern then they report it. Bakers aren't morality policemen or lawyers. They are bakers. Teachers teach the curriculum. If that says you teach sex education then you teach it, irrespective of what your personal religious beliefs might be. If you cannot do that, then you try to negotiate a move to another subject area, and if that's impossible you cannot teach. Bakers bake. They can subcontract the baking to another baker, or if that's impossible and they cannot accept doing things against their beliefs then they must stop offering to accept third party work, and just make then own offerings. It's neither complicated nor unreasonable. Everybody has a choice and everybody knows where they stand. If Gary Glitter is asked to sing “Fiddle About” as the British entry in the Eurovision Song Contest, dressed as Uncle Ernie, is he obliged to do so? Edited by georgenorman (16 Mar 2023 6.17am)
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 16 Mar 23 8.06am |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
If you can name anyone prepared to put that plan into action then fair enough let's give it a go, but again in real life it's never going to happen. The first thing is to get it talked about. So far as I am aware it isn't at the moment, but the idea isn't new. What I think is new is the benefit it would deliver in today's society. It would clearly take beyond my lifetime to bear fruit, but we must look for new strategies when those we have are failing. Just moaning and proposing irrational responses delivers only anger and potential conflict. We must heal, not divide. I have a one to one meeting with my MP in April. I will try to bring it up then.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| georgenorman 16 Mar 23 8.41am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
The first thing is to get it talked about. So far as I am aware it isn't at the moment, but the idea isn't new. What I think is new is the benefit it would deliver in today's society. It would clearly take beyond my lifetime to bear fruit, but we must look for new strategies when those we have are failing. Just moaning and proposing irrational responses delivers only anger and potential conflict. We must heal, not divide. I have a one to one meeting with my MP in April. I will try to bring it up then. What are you going to suggest to him/her/they, that muslim book shop owners must be obliged to stock 'Satanic Verses' and Jewish book shop owners 'Mein Kampf'?
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PalazioVecchio  south pole 16 Mar 23 9.45am |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
What are you going to suggest to him/her/they, that muslim book shop owners must be obliged to stock 'Satanic Verses' and Jewish book shop owners 'Mein Kampf'? and you forgot Christian bookshops with copies of 'The Communist Manifesto'. The intolerance of Christianity, in public life, has gone beyond a joke. It is looking like Christianity is being phased out ? Even as an atheist, i find it offensive that an unelected nutter wishes to cancel Christmas. Edited by PalazioVecchio (16 Mar 2023 10.31am)
Eze Peasy at Anfield.... |
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| georgenorman 16 Mar 23 10.04am |
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Originally posted by PalazioVecchio
and you forgot Christian bookshops with copies of 'The Communist Manifesto'. The intolerance of Christianity, in public life, has gone beyond a joke. It is looking like Christianity is being phased out ? Unfortunately, the current Church of England probably would sell it.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 16 Mar 23 10.59am |
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Originally posted by Bert the Head
They do not support any shift of wealth and power from the rich to working people as a left wing paper would. Unfortunately, the Labour Party has no agenda to do this either but they will be competent enough as a `night watchman' to keep things ticking over undisturned until the Tory Party comes back to it's senses and is trusted enough to carry on the class war of discreetly moving wealth from ordinary people to rich people as has been the case for the last forty years. You have included the Sunday Mirror but not the Mail on Sunday, The Sunday Express or the Spectator. The majority of Media is right wing. It is a more sophisticated version of the Berlin Wall. It has kept people supporting an attack on the post war consensus that is against their interests just as the Berlin wall tried to lock people in East Europe into communism. The media doesn't tell us want to think but tells us what to think about; Its never about how wealth has moved from working people to rich people or how entrenched privilege is in the UK. It never talks about us living in the sixth richest country in the world while having social benefits, like pensions, child care, housing costs working hours, that compare less favourably with many countries far less wealthy. It tells us to think about the glories of the past as if the Spitfire is relevant to modern Britain. It wants us to live in a nostalgic fantasy while supporting a slow burning class war that mugs us off. Stop right there. The Sun has declared itself a Labour supporter.
It clearly is, however many papers you want to name. Lefties cannot deal with the simplest reality, even when the evidence is staring them in the face.
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| georgenorman 16 Mar 23 11.15am |
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Originally posted by Bert the Head
The majority of Media is right wing. It is a more sophisticated version of the Berlin Wall. It has kept people supporting an attack on the post war consensus that is against their interests just as the Berlin wall tried to lock people in East Europe into communism. It's like Germany in the 1960s.
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