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Badger11 Beckenham 19 Mar 23 11.57am
Originally posted by PalazioVecchio just 100 years ago, if people retired at 65, the vast majority were dead by 68. The World has changed beyond all recognition. In the past, a fella was an adult working with a shovel at age 17. Often with his own home , wife and kids on the way. Today, the same fella lives with his parents at age 40 and will inherit when he is 50. And his mum could well make it to 92. The mathematics of pensions is the tricky part. Which is why people in Africa have a dozen kids.....to mind them when they are elderly (55) Edited by PalazioVecchio (19 Mar 2023 11.05am) I knew a civil servant who helped draw up the state pension pension in the late forties early fifties. It was all very predictable based on actuaries. He explained it like this: 1. Start work / paying tax when you are 14/15yo 2. Retire 65yo 3. Die 70yo Today of course it's more like: 1. Start work 21/22yo 2. Retire late fifties early sixties via a) Middle class retire with private pension b) Lower income people stop work on sick benefit 3) Collect state pension 68 4) Die 80yo+ Apparently Macron's pension age raise has more exceptions (holes) in it than a French Fisherman's net. Edited by Badger11 (19 Mar 2023 11.58am) One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 19 Mar 23 11.57am

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

just 100 years ago, if people retired at 65, the vast majority were dead by 68.

The World has changed beyond all recognition. In the past, a fella was an adult working with a shovel at age 17. Often with his own home , wife and kids on the way. Today, the same fella lives with his parents at age 40 and will inherit when he is 50. And his mum could well make it to 92.

The mathematics of pensions is the tricky part. Which is why people in Africa have a dozen kids.....to mind them when they are elderly (55)

Edited by PalazioVecchio (19 Mar 2023 11.05am)

I knew a civil servant who helped draw up the state pension pension in the late forties early fifties. It was all very predictable based on actuaries. He explained it like this:

1. Start work / paying tax when you are 14/15yo
2. Retire 65yo
3. Die 70yo

Today of course it's more like:

1. Start work 21/22yo
2. Retire late fifties early sixties via
a) Middle class retire with private pension
b) Lower income people stop work on sick benefit
3) Collect state pension 68
4) Die 80yo+

Apparently Macron's pension age raise has more exceptions (holes) in it than a French Fisherman's net.

Edited by Badger11 (19 Mar 2023 11.58am)

One more point

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cryrst The garden of England 19 Mar 23 12.34pm
Originally posted by Matov The issue in France is not the maths. Pensions are potentially going to destroy the West along with the wider question about are we actually enabling people to live to long thus absorbing huge amounts of national resources. A definite debate needs to be had. But Macron chose to impose this on the French people. The much much bigger issue. Yes macron has opened that can but your wider statement of enabling longer life is part of the problem. People just arnt being allowed to die. Medical advance and an our blame and claim society is the cause. This is why every nurse has two managers. Cross the i�s dot the t�s. No one can just say s*** happens and death happens.
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cryrst

The garden of England 19 Mar 23 12.34pm

Originally posted by Matov

The issue in France is not the maths. Pensions are potentially going to destroy the West along with the wider question about are we actually enabling people to live to long thus absorbing huge amounts of national resources. A definite debate needs to be had.

But Macron chose to impose this on the French people. The much much bigger issue.

Yes macron has opened that can but your wider statement of enabling longer life is part of the problem. People just arnt being allowed to die. Medical advance and an our blame and claim society is the cause. This is why every nurse has two managers. Cross the i�s dot the t�s. No one can just say s*** happens and death happens.

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Behind Enemy Lines Sussex 19 Mar 23 12.43pm
Originally posted by cryrst Yes macron has opened that can but your wider statement of enabling longer life is part of the problem. People just arnt being allowed to die. Medical advance and an our blame and claim society is the cause. This is why every nurse has two managers. Cross the i�s dot the t�s. No one can just say s*** happens and death happens. Is not part of the problem that in France and potentially elsewhere, that it is the state that provides the majority of peoples late life payments whereas in the UK we have been moving away to personal pension responsibility? hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.
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Behind Enemy Lines

Sussex 19 Mar 23 12.43pm

Send a Private Message to Behind Enemy Lines

Originally posted by cryrst

Is not part of the problem that in France and potentially elsewhere, that it is the state that provides the majority of peoples late life payments whereas in the UK we have been moving away to personal pension responsibility?

hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.

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mr. apollo Somewhere in Switzerland 20 Mar 23 1.41pm
Did you know that it is illegal for French people to eat at their workplace? Do you know why it isn't an issue? They are never there... Glad All Over
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mr. apollo

Somewhere in Switzerland 20 Mar 23 1.41pm

Did you know that it is illegal for French people to eat at their workplace?

Do you know why it isn't an issue?

They are never there...

Glad

All

Over

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cryrst The garden of England 20 Mar 23 6.00pm
Originally posted by Behind Enemy Lines Is not part of the problem that in France and potentially elsewhere, that it is the state that provides the majority of peoples late life payments whereas in the UK we have been moving away to personal pension responsibility? My point is that people die. The state shouldn�t spend bundles stopping it happening in certain situations.
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cryrst

The garden of England 20 Mar 23 6.00pm

Originally posted by Behind Enemy Lines

My point is that people die. The state shouldn�t spend bundles stopping it happening in certain situations.

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