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footythoughts Flag Beckenham 13 May 23 7.38pm

Originally posted by georgenorman

Sometimes I believe there is a God, sometimes I don't.
I don't believe the Universe spontaneously sprang into existence as some scientists tell us.
If God exists, is God responsible for what religions do?

We could also state the same criticism of God (did he just 'spring into existence with no explanation', did he always exist?) only with less rationality behind our thoughts. I think 'God' is just us putting something or someone we feel we can relate to into the equation. There's likely a better argument that we're in a simulation than heaven sent.

If God exists it would depend on the process of creation whether he's responsible for said creations behaviour or his own inaction is he's all powerful.

But while I believe it's irrational, that's not to say it's without worth to people. People can be persuaded to do significant harm if they believe 'their God' wants them to behave a certain way, but the converse is also true, and I agree it's abundantly clear that people can become radicalised around race, politics or whatever in absurd ways. Where people use religion to give them purpose and to improve the lives of those around them that's all positive in my view. I care more that there are good and caring people who look to support others and make a positive difference, than the specific mindset that led them to that place.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 13 May 23 8.11pm Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by footythoughts

We could also state the same criticism of God (did he just 'spring into existence with no explanation', did he always exist?) only with less rationality behind our thoughts. I think 'God' is just us putting something or someone we feel we can relate to into the equation. There's likely a better argument that we're in a simulation than heaven sent.

If God exists it would depend on the process of creation whether he's responsible for said creations behaviour or his own inaction is he's all powerful.

But while I believe it's irrational, that's not to say it's without worth to people. People can be persuaded to do significant harm if they believe 'their God' wants them to behave a certain way, but the converse is also true, and I agree it's abundantly clear that people can become radicalised around race, politics or whatever in absurd ways. Where people use religion to give them purpose and to improve the lives of those around them that's all positive in my view. I care more that there are good and caring people who look to support others and make a positive difference, than the specific mindset that led them to that place.

The idea of an omnipotent God creating the Universe seems more rational than inanimate objects springing into existence of their own accord. Time would not exist before the start of the Universe so God could have always existed.

 

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footythoughts Flag Beckenham 13 May 23 8.18pm

Originally posted by georgenorman

The idea of an omnipotent God creating the Universe seems more rational than inanimate objects springing into existence of their own accord. Time would not exist before the start of the Universe so God could have always existed.

I don't personally see the idea of a God being realistic, but as I say it's not something I'm all that invested in. Good people make a difference no matter how they came to be that way. Unless someone's beliefs contort them into something malignant and damaging to those around them all is well.

 

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 13 May 23 8.55pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by footythoughts

I don't personally see the idea of a God being realistic...

Good. God is not meant to be realistic. He is meant to be beyond realism. That is why people have built so many incredible monuments. Why they complete Pilgrimages. And sadly, sometimes, why they do horrendous things as well.

God is not meant to be mudane. Or ordinary. But don't take my word for it. Stroll up to Victoria, go into Westminster Cathedral, light a candle just because you can and then just sit down for 5 minutes and think about the blessings in your life. In fact, any Church that will let you do this (and probably mainly Catholic or Orothadox ones)

Are you going to see an incredible light? Will your entire life change in that instant? Probably not. But I guarantee that when you leave, you will feel the better for it.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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View becky's Profile becky Flag over the moon 13 May 23 9.11pm Send a Private Message to becky Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add becky as a friend

Originally posted by georgenorman

The idea of an omnipotent God creating the Universe seems more rational than inanimate objects springing into existence of their own accord. Time would not exist before the start of the Universe so God could have always existed.

For all man's cleverness and abilities, no-one has yet been able to create life from nothing.... yes they can reproduce using live material but from dead matter, no..... not ever. So where di the original life forms come from?

Edited by becky (13 May 2023 9.11pm)

 


A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

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footythoughts Flag Beckenham 13 May 23 10.19pm

Originally posted by Matov

Good. God is not meant to be realistic. He is meant to be beyond realism. That is why people have built so many incredible monuments. Why they complete Pilgrimages. And sadly, sometimes, why they do horrendous things as well.

God is not meant to be mudane. Or ordinary. But don't take my word for it. Stroll up to Victoria, go into Westminster Cathedral, light a candle just because you can and then just sit down for 5 minutes and think about the blessings in your life. In fact, any Church that will let you do this (and probably mainly Catholic or Orothadox ones)

Are you going to see an incredible light? Will your entire life change in that instant? Probably not. But I guarantee that when you leave, you will feel the better for it.

Nice comments and take. I certainly understand what you mean, and agree that contemplative moments in a setting that is much greater that the individual can make people feel that way. Whether a church , or a view of rolling hills or whatever a puts a person in that place. There are many way of viewing such moments, but few that politics of society doesn't seek to reframe of diminish in some way. Each to their own, life of course isn't one size fits all and there's something to be said for not entirely dismissing a spiritual side above and beyond stone cold facts.

Edited by footythoughts (13 May 2023 10.20pm)

 

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 13 May 23 10.34pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by footythoughts

Nice comments and take. I certainly understand what you mean, and agree that contemplative moments in a setting that is much greater that the individual can make people feel that way. Whether a church , or a view of rolling hills or whatever a puts a person in that place. There are many way of viewing such moments, but few that politics of society doesn't seek to reframe of diminish in some way. Each to their own, life of course isn't one size fits all and there's something to be said for not entirely dismissing a spiritual side above and beyond stone cold facts.

Edited by footythoughts (13 May 2023 10.20pm)

_1.jpg Attachment: _1.jpg (132.70Kb)

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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footythoughts Flag Beckenham 13 May 23 10.37pm

Originally posted by Matov

Well summed up

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 14 May 23 3.00am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by georgenorman

The idea of an omnipotent God creating the Universe seems more rational than inanimate objects springing into existence of their own accord. Time would not exist before the start of the Universe so God could have always existed.

When you magnify you only need to look at the structure of an ice crystal or any DNA to see incredible precision and order.

Mathematics or nature's code, if you will, is the unseen hand behind the stage.

There was an early computer program, I can't remember what it was called 'life' or something that showed that different forms of complex order can result from just setting a few 'rules' or mathematics. So we know that structured complex order can come from randomness....The nature of the void itself are tiny energy variations within 'fields' and science's giants have shown that randomness seems to rule our physics via probability suggesting that more dimensions exist than we can access.....We live in a time where lots of minds are focused in on these questions and perhaps a new Newton will make a breakthrough.

Maybe eventually we can get an answer to the classic origin question of can those energy variations within fields come from 'nothing'.
Can something start from nothing, zero energy? I'm not seeing how it can. If there is a god, who created god? Did a god write this code and leave it to develop? It's like looking at a circle and trying to work out where it starts. It's not possible....but you do know that it did start, because it exists within your reality....The fact that it did start is an undeniable clue.

I don't think it's possible to come to a rational conclusion from the information we currently have. We clearly do not have enough data to answer the question other than making rudimentary guesses.

For myself, If I had to put money on it I would go with simulation theory and that there are 'parallel' dimensions. However, I'm aware that this is a form of cop out. But there is no certainty.


Edited by Stirlingsays (14 May 2023 5.59am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 14 May 23 4.48am Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by becky

For all man's cleverness and abilities, no-one has yet been able to create life from nothing.... yes they can reproduce using live material but from dead matter, no..... not ever. So where di the original life forms come from?

Edited by becky (13 May 2023 9.11pm)

On earth, Alien experiments I guess. But then where did they come from and it goes on and on.
I will say though that god may be the last person many people call as they take their last breath; even non believers.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 14 May 23 6.50am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

On earth, Alien experiments I guess. But then where did they come from and it goes on and on.
I will say though that god may be the last person many people call as they take their last breath; even non believers.

That Eric Clapton just gives his number out to anybody.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Forest Hillbilly's Profile Forest Hillbilly Flag in a hidey-hole 14 May 23 7.00am Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly Add Forest Hillbilly as a friend

Originally posted by becky

For all man's cleverness and abilities, no-one has yet been able to create life from nothing.... yes they can reproduce using live material but from dead matter, no..... not ever. So where di the original life forms come from?

Edited by becky (13 May 2023 9.11pm)

However, as a species, man has found exceptionally 'clever' ways of killing things. Almost everything we come into contact with, dies.

 


"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

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