Could we adopt and improve the US sports model ?

rikz Croydon 17 May 23 8.37am
So pondering how a club our size could ever compete against the top clubs in the league and the harsh reality is we can't, it's completely impossible, without money the best you can hope for is a well run club, who has the odd good season before your best players are bought, as will happen with Brighton this season. In American football, college football is massive, with the poor performing clubs getting first choice on draft day. Obviously I wouldn't want to get rid of relegation, promotion, franchise our league, stop the best players in the world playing in it etc but couldn't we do something similar with our academies ? Instead of each club having their own academy, couldn't we set up regional academies, with each club equally funding them. Still like America, say the North East can offer a place to someone from the South West. The prem teams paying the most, all the way down the leagues. Players from the ages of 18-21, at the end of each season, we have a draft day, with the bottom clubs of each league, picking first and having to offer a 3 year professional contract, the prem teams get first pick, like America 1st year players can still go pro or decide to remain at an academy, 21 year old who don't get picked just become free agents. The negative is academy players couldn't sign for foreign clubs, the positives are sky can make draft day a massive day, maybe terrestrial tv could show academy football, it encourages home grown talent, obviously the big clubs will still sign the best players but gives smaller clubs the chance to have the best young players the country's produced, having someone like foden for 3 years at our club is better than how things are now.
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rikz

Croydon 17 May 23 8.37am

So pondering how a club our size could ever compete against the top clubs in the league and the harsh reality is we can't, it's completely impossible, without money the best you can hope for is a well run club, who has the odd good season before your best players are bought, as will happen with Brighton this season.

In American football, college football is massive, with the poor performing clubs getting first choice on draft day. Obviously I wouldn't want to get rid of relegation, promotion, franchise our league, stop the best players in the world playing in it etc but couldn't we do something similar with our academies ?

Instead of each club having their own academy, couldn't we set up regional academies, with each club equally funding them. Still like America, say the North East can offer a place to someone from the South West. The prem teams paying the most, all the way down the leagues. Players from the ages of 18-21, at the end of each season, we have a draft day, with the bottom clubs of each league, picking first and having to offer a 3 year professional contract, the prem teams get first pick, like America 1st year players can still go pro or decide to remain at an academy, 21 year old who don't get picked just become free agents.

The negative is academy players couldn't sign for foreign clubs, the positives are sky can make draft day a massive day, maybe terrestrial tv could show academy football, it encourages home grown talent, obviously the big clubs will still sign the best players but gives smaller clubs the chance to have the best young players the country's produced, having someone like foden for 3 years at our club is better than how things are now.

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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 17 May 23 8.51am
Originally posted by rikz So pondering how a club our size could ever compete against the top clubs in the league and the harsh reality is we can't, it's completely impossible, without money the best you can hope for is a well run club, who has the odd good season before your best players are bought, as will happen with Brighton this season. In American football, college football is massive, with the poor performing clubs getting first choice on draft day. Obviously I wouldn't want to get rid of relegation, promotion, franchise our league, stop the best players in the world playing in it etc but couldn't we do something similar with our academies ? Instead of each club having their own academy, couldn't we set up regional academies, with each club equally funding them. Still like America, say the North East can offer a place to someone from the South West. The prem teams paying the most, all the way down the leagues. Players from the ages of 18-21, at the end of each season, we have a draft day, with the bottom clubs of each league, picking first and having to offer a 3 year professional contract, the prem teams get first pick, like America 1st year players can still go pro or decide to remain at an academy, 21 year old who don't get picked just become free agents. The negative is academy players couldn't sign for foreign clubs, the positives are sky can make draft day a massive day, maybe terrestrial tv could show academy football, it encourages home grown talent, obviously the big clubs will still sign the best players but gives smaller clubs the chance to have the best young players the country's produced, having someone like foden for 3 years at our club is better than how things are now. I understand the sentiment Rikz, as for all my aversion to US sports this system seems like a great idea over there, however I'd think there are too many ramifications to this where football would/could not adopt it. I think the finances involved, which are both domestic and foreign, the multi-tier leagues, tradition and many other factors would be too many and too big an obstacle. Football is so cut throat really with both clubs and players alike always trying to wrangle their way through markets so I struggle to see it happening. I rather insincerely, in general conversation, remarked to someone the other day about academy products. I suggested they be tied to their club for x amount of years upon signing their first contract, with the club retaining the right to willingly sell them. I thought this sounded like a good idea although could foresee Chelsea further stockpiling as much Talent as literally possible. Might further encourage investment in academies though and clubs would be able to reap the rewards without the likes of Chelsea nicking their best players early on only for them to never be seen again. Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!
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Nicholas91

The Democratic Republic of Kent 17 May 23 8.51am

Originally posted by rikz

I understand the sentiment Rikz, as for all my aversion to US sports this system seems like a great idea over there, however I'd think there are too many ramifications to this where football would/could not adopt it.

I think the finances involved, which are both domestic and foreign, the multi-tier leagues, tradition and many other factors would be too many and too big an obstacle. Football is so cut throat really with both clubs and players alike always trying to wrangle their way through markets so I struggle to see it happening.

I rather insincerely, in general conversation, remarked to someone the other day about academy products. I suggested they be tied to their club for x amount of years upon signing their first contract, with the club retaining the right to willingly sell them. I thought this sounded like a good idea although could foresee Chelsea further stockpiling as much Talent as literally possible. Might further encourage investment in academies though and clubs would be able to reap the rewards without the likes of Chelsea nicking their best players early on only for them to never be seen again.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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becky over the moon 17 May 23 9.17am
Originally posted by Nicholas91 I understand the sentiment Rikz, as for all my aversion to US sports this system seems like a great idea over there, however I'd think there are too many ramifications to this where football would/could not adopt it. I think the finances involved, which are both domestic and foreign, the multi-tier leagues, tradition and many other factors would be too many and too big an obstacle. Football is so cut throat really with both clubs and players alike always trying to wrangle their way through markets so I struggle to see it happening. I rather insincerely, in general conversation, remarked to someone the other day about academy products. I suggested they be tied to their club for x amount of years upon signing their first contract, with the club retaining the right to willingly sell them. I thought this sounded like a good idea although could foresee Chelsea further stockpiling as much Talent as literally possible. Might further encourage investment in academies though and clubs would be able to reap the rewards without the likes of Chelsea nicking their best players early on only for them to never be seen again. Maybe the answer to your latter points about clubs like Chelsea stockpiling good young players would be for there to be a fixed rate nationwide pay scale for non first team players from academies for, say, the first 2 years of their pro contract with a club. This would take away the temptation for youngsters to sign with a 'big' club with 'big' wages and little or no hope of selection, and maybe look more at the options of where they will get the best chance of advancing their game to gain first team play (which would then also increase their pay). Or is that too simple? A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers
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becky

over the moon 17 May 23 9.17am

Originally posted by Nicholas91

Maybe the answer to your latter points about clubs like Chelsea stockpiling good young players would be for there to be a fixed rate nationwide pay scale for non first team players from academies for, say, the first 2 years of their pro contract with a club. This would take away the temptation for youngsters to sign with a 'big' club with 'big' wages and little or no hope of selection, and maybe look more at the options of where they will get the best chance of advancing their game to gain first team play (which would then also increase their pay). Or is that too simple?

A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

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Badger11 Beckenham 17 May 23 9.38am
Originally posted by becky Maybe the answer to your latter points about clubs like Chelsea stockpiling good young players would be for there to be a fixed rate nationwide pay scale for non first team players from academies for, say, the first 2 years of their pro contract with a club. This would take away the temptation for youngsters to sign with a 'big' club with 'big' wages and little or no hope of selection, and maybe look more at the options of where they will get the best chance of advancing their game to gain first team play (which would then also increase their pay). Or is that too simple? Logical and fair Becky so never going to happen. The big clubs use these academies to generate revenue and stop their rivals from acquiring talent as AC Milan did in the Eighties. I would add to your suggestion by putting a restriction on how many players a club could have in their academy. I would also increase the amount of compensation a big club would pay if they poach from a lower league. It always annoyed me that Spurs justification for only paying �250,000 for John Bostock was that they were taking a risk and he might not make it (true). However this completely missed the point that we have developed this young lad so yeah if Spurs want to sign him they should take the risk they didn't have to sign him. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 17 May 23 9.38am

Originally posted by becky

Logical and fair Becky so never going to happen.

The big clubs use these academies to generate revenue and stop their rivals from acquiring talent as AC Milan did in the Eighties.

I would add to your suggestion by putting a restriction on how many players a club could have in their academy.

I would also increase the amount of compensation a big club would pay if they poach from a lower league. It always annoyed me that Spurs justification for only paying �250,000 for John Bostock was that they were taking a risk and he might not make it (true).

However this completely missed the point that we have developed this young lad so yeah if Spurs want to sign him they should take the risk they didn't have to sign him.

One more point

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Painter Croydon 17 May 23 9.45am
No chance anything like this will ever happen. It�s all about money, big clubs have no interest in helping lower clubs get better than them. Who would be the bottom club to get first pick? A relegated team or a promoted team?
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Painter

Croydon 17 May 23 9.45am

No chance anything like this will ever happen. It�s all about money, big clubs have no interest in helping lower clubs get better than them.

Who would be the bottom club to get first pick? A relegated team or a promoted team?

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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 17 May 23 9.45am
Originally posted by becky Maybe the answer to your latter points about clubs like Chelsea stockpiling good young players would be for there to be a fixed rate nationwide pay scale for non first team players from academies for, say, the first 2 years of their pro contract with a club. This would take away the temptation for youngsters to sign with a 'big' club with 'big' wages and little or no hope of selection, and maybe look more at the options of where they will get the best chance of advancing their game to gain first team play (which would then also increase their pay). Or is that too simple? Too simple and too good an idea for football Becky however I would support this proposal. Good idea. Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!
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Nicholas91

The Democratic Republic of Kent 17 May 23 9.45am

Originally posted by becky

Too simple and too good an idea for football Becky however I would support this proposal. Good idea.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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Mwncisee Middlesbrough 17 May 23 9.46am
It will never happen. Just too much money has been invested in the current system. However, I do wish there was a merger of the best of both worlds. IMHO I like the concept of promotion and relegation, it is central to the competitive nature and potential (no matter how small) for smaller clubs to grow and succeed. The American Franchise does not allow this, not in a sporting concept. On the flip side the reality of people supporting their local teams is waning. The reality is a lot of kids these days support the big teams whilst promotion of brands overseas means big clubs have global fanbases. One of the plusses of the American sports system is it is ok and accepted to support a big franchise club AND equally valued and supported a local college team. I really like this I would love to be able to support a local team to me (Given my ability to support Palace is a bit nerfed by living in the North East. The Draft itself is a fun, enjoyable even akin to transfer deadline day. Edited by Mwncisee (17 May 2023 9.49am)
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Mwncisee

Middlesbrough 17 May 23 9.46am

It will never happen. Just too much money has been invested in the current system.

However, I do wish there was a merger of the best of both worlds. IMHO I like the concept of promotion and relegation, it is central to the competitive nature and potential (no matter how small) for smaller clubs to grow and succeed. The American Franchise does not allow this, not in a sporting concept.

On the flip side the reality of people supporting their local teams is waning. The reality is a lot of kids these days support the big teams whilst promotion of brands overseas means big clubs have global fanbases. One of the plusses of the American sports system is it is ok and accepted to support a big franchise club AND equally valued and supported a local college team. I really like this I would love to be able to support a local team to me (Given my ability to support Palace is a bit nerfed by living in the North East. The Draft itself is a fun, enjoyable even akin to transfer deadline day.

Edited by Mwncisee (17 May 2023 9.49am)

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rikz Croydon 17 May 23 9.49am
I understand it would be hard to implement, obviously not every academy players will make it. The regional academies could be partnered with local universities so it allows young players to carry on with education. I think more people would be interested in academy football, I'd 100% keep an eye on it, seeing the best young players play and discussing who we should go for. It would be interesting who clubs pick, do we go for the best player or as we need a RB, go for the best RB. The money our game generates if anyone could make it happen, it would be the prem. Plus it would maybe take less pressure off the lower league clubs in terms of how much they spend on scouting, academies etc.
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rikz

Croydon 17 May 23 9.49am

I understand it would be hard to implement, obviously not every academy players will make it. The regional academies could be partnered with local universities so it allows young players to carry on with education. I think more people would be interested in academy football, I'd 100% keep an eye on it, seeing the best young players play and discussing who we should go for. It would be interesting who clubs pick, do we go for the best player or as we need a RB, go for the best RB. The money our game generates if anyone could make it happen, it would be the prem. Plus it would maybe take less pressure off the lower league clubs in terms of how much they spend on scouting, academies etc.

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MrRobbo Purley 17 May 23 12.14pm
Originally posted by becky Maybe the answer to your latter points about clubs like Chelsea stockpiling good young players would be for there to be a fixed rate nationwide pay scale for non first team players from academies for, say, the first 2 years of their pro contract with a club. This would take away the temptation for youngsters to sign with a 'big' club with 'big' wages and little or no hope of selection, and maybe look more at the options of where they will get the best chance of advancing their game to gain first team play (which would then also increase their pay). Or is that too simple? Love the idea of that. With anything you'll have opposition from the big boys, not in their interest to make it fair. Whilst it has its pitfalls the American sports system has a lot going for it. Young athletes are better supported, and education is mandated The draft system gives everyone a chance (every so often) Whole towns and cities are rooting for the schools and different pro sports teams in the town
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MrRobbo

Purley 17 May 23 12.14pm

Originally posted by becky

Love the idea of that.

With anything you'll have opposition from the big boys, not in their interest to make it fair.

Whilst it has its pitfalls the American sports system has a lot going for it.

Young athletes are better supported, and education is mandated

The draft system gives everyone a chance (every so often)

Whole towns and cities are rooting for the schools and different pro sports teams in the town

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rikz Croydon 17 May 23 3.25pm
Originally posted by Painter No chance anything like this will ever happen. It�s all about money, big clubs have no interest in helping lower clubs get better than them. Who would be the bottom club to get first pick? A relegated team or a promoted team? I wouldn't want teams being rewarded for being relegated or encouraging teams to purposely lose like the US to gain an advantage so they could be given 18th, 19th and 20th pick.
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rikz

Croydon 17 May 23 3.25pm

Originally posted by Painter

No chance anything like this will ever happen. It�s all about money, big clubs have no interest in helping lower clubs get better than them.

Who would be the bottom club to get first pick? A relegated team or a promoted team?

I wouldn't want teams being rewarded for being relegated or encouraging teams to purposely lose like the US to gain an advantage so they could be given 18th, 19th and 20th pick.

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pssguy 17 May 23 3.59pm
The setup is so different from the states that this wouldn't fly. Same with a salary cap given the foreign club alternatives for top players To my mind, the best way to give sides like Palace a chance of glory would be to have some sort of play-off system for, say, the top 8 clubs. The overall winner would go to the Champion's League along with the three highest places teams in the regular season - so there would still be a great incentive to perform well. Let's face it, Man City are a one-team champion pretty much every season anyways Probably need to stop Premier League representation in the Carabao Cup to save on fixture build up but that would have the added benefit of giving the lower league clubs a realistic chance of a Cup win
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pssguy

17 May 23 3.59pm

The setup is so different from the states that this wouldn't fly. Same with a salary cap given the foreign club alternatives for top players

To my mind, the best way to give sides like Palace a chance of glory would be to have some sort of play-off system for, say, the top 8 clubs. The overall winner would go to the Champion's League along with the three highest places teams in the regular season - so there would still be a great incentive to perform well. Let's face it, Man City are a one-team champion pretty much every season anyways

Probably need to stop Premier League representation in the Carabao Cup to save on fixture build up but that would have the added benefit of giving the lower league clubs a realistic chance of a Cup win

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