You are here: Home > Message Board > News & Politics > Mr Bates vs The Post Office
October 31 2024 11.13pm

This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.

Mr Bates vs The Post Office

Previous Topic | Next Topic


Page 5 of 10 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >

  

dreamwaverider Flag London 09 Jan 24 4.23pm Send a Private Message to dreamwaverider Add dreamwaverider as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

So I wonder if that’s the case; exactly how many systems gave false figures.

So far 2500+ victims have been paid out although the government have now pledged £600,000 to each victim. I daresay there will be thousands more to follow. Then of course there were those who the PO investigators never caught up with. Based on the fact that Horizon had access to every operating system (all of them) the compensation could become massive. In the £ billions now for sure. Fujitsu had better get ready for some hefty costs. The Horizon interns were clearly part of the issue of a totally useless system.
This has got years to rumble on still.

Edited by dreamwaverider (09 Jan 2024 4.26pm)

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 09 Jan 24 6.20pm Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

Every tax payer is contributing to the compensation, we are but sheep being shorn

 


Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
steeleye20 Flag Croydon 09 Jan 24 7.51pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

I don't see, from my own experience in IT, how Fujitsu could have signed off on this software which it's obvious faults, nor how the PO could have accepted it.

Nobody listened to the users, nobody sat in to see what was happening.

Instead they were arrogant, disbelieving, it couldn't possibly be them.

How often do we see that.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
dreamwaverider Flag London 10 Jan 24 7.07am Send a Private Message to dreamwaverider Add dreamwaverider as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

I don't see, from my own experience in IT, how Fujitsu could have signed off on this software which it's obvious faults, nor how the PO could have accepted it.

Nobody listened to the users, nobody sat in to see what was happening.

Instead they were arrogant, disbelieving, it couldn't possibly be them.

How often do we see that.

I genuinely dont know. How often? I would guess it's a lot more than I cynically suspect.

The fact that Horizon could effectively take over and control each individual sub postmaster accounts unknown to the sub postmaster and the fact the Horizon operators were regularly screwing it up due to their lack of PO operating experience and then hiding it and even worse blaming the sub postmasters and demanding they pay for the Horizon and PO head office mistakes, shows just how evil this was.
From the very top, Paula viper Vennells, right the way through the PO and Horizon they were playing a ludicrous power game. Evil nasty people. They were all infested with a shockingly bad mind set.
As the truth is now out, and more Sub postmasters are coming out of the shade smelling the safe upside, this is going to run into billions of claims which no doubt Fujitsu and the PO (the taxpayer.....most of us) will have to stand. So long as Sunak keeps his word and probably then Starmer, who anyway can blame the conservatives, these poor people should end up being rightly compensated and it will be £billions.
I am so happy for them. Great to see our arrogant public sector beaten. I really hope it is a very long painful experience for all those to blame.
This truth has been a long time coming. This cancer exists through many public sector organisations and also many large private sector institution sized companies.
Local authorities, Insurance companies, banks pension funds etc etc. the list is long. Payout will run into many billions, but most importantly, it may help to turn these awful distorted arrogant t***s into more normal helpful people which fundamentally is why they are there.
Ultimately this should help change poor mindsets and improve services in many sectors. moving forwards. But it will take years and I for one will not be holding my breath. There is still a long hard journey ahead to improve this rotten attitude.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 10 Jan 24 7.31am Send a Private Message to NEILLO Add NEILLO as a friend

Originally posted by dreamwaverider

I genuinely dont know. How often? I would guess it's a lot more than I cynically suspect.

The fact that Horizon could effectively take over and control each individual sub postmaster accounts unknown to the sub postmaster and the fact the Horizon operators were regularly screwing it up due to their lack of PO operating experience and then hiding it and even worse blaming the sub postmasters and demanding they pay for the Horizon and PO head office mistakes, shows just how evil this was.
From the very top, Paula viper Vennells, right the way through the PO and Horizon they were playing a ludicrous power game. Evil nasty people. They were all infested with a shockingly bad mind set.
As the truth is now out, and more Sub postmasters are coming out of the shade smelling the safe upside, this is going to run into billions of claims which no doubt Fujitsu and the PO (the taxpayer.....most of us) will have to stand. So long as Sunak keeps his word and probably then Starmer, who anyway can blame the conservatives, these poor people should end up being rightly compensated and it will be £billions.
I am so happy for them. Great to see our arrogant public sector beaten. I really hope it is a very long painful experience for all those to blame.
This truth has been a long time coming. This cancer exists through many public sector organisations and also many large private sector institution sized companies.
Local authorities, Insurance companies, banks pension funds etc etc. the list is long. Payout will run into many billions, but most importantly, it may help to turn these awful distorted arrogant t***s into more normal helpful people which fundamentally is why they are there.
Ultimately this should help change poor mindsets and improve services in many sectors. moving forwards. But it will take years and I for one will not be holding my breath. There is still a long hard journey ahead to improve this rotten attitude.

I have a vested interest into how public money is spent. Specifically by the Cabinet Office.

About 2 years ago, the CO was taken to court by a French IT company that had bid to build a new supercomputer for the Met Office.

Despite following all the CO's procurement guidelines, despite meeting all the spec requirements and despite quoting less than the other bidder, it was that other bidder, that won the tender.

I was due to attend Court but the night before the CO settled. They paid £24m of tax payers money to make it go away. All for not following their own in house procurement process.

I tried to find out more via a FOI request which was turned down.

I write to my local Conservative MP. He didn't want to know.

Draw your own conclusions !

 


Old, Ungifted and White

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
Spiderman Flag Horsham 10 Jan 24 8.34am Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

I don't see, from my own experience in IT, how Fujitsu could have signed off on this software which it's obvious faults, nor how the PO could have accepted it.

Nobody listened to the users, nobody sat in to see what was happening.

Instead they were arrogant, disbelieving, it couldn't possibly be them.

How often do we see that.

Having worked for the HO and seen several different IT systems introduced, I can! Numerous times we told the powers that be, the new systems were either, not fit for purpose or would cause untold issues. “Don’t be ridiculous and just get in with it”

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
eagleman13 Flag On The Road To Hell & Alicante 10 Jan 24 8.53am Send a Private Message to eagleman13 Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add eagleman13 as a friend

Get's better this . . . [Link]

 


This operation, will make the 'Charge Of The Light Brigade' seem like a simple military exercise.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
dreamwaverider Flag London 10 Jan 24 10.18am Send a Private Message to dreamwaverider Add dreamwaverider as a friend

Originally posted by eagleman13

Get's better this . . . [Link]

I would take a very close look at his bank accounts. But I am cynical. Twenty years of dealing with local authorities has distorted my mind.

Edited by dreamwaverider (10 Jan 2024 10.18am)

Edited by dreamwaverider (10 Jan 2024 10.19am)

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
The Dolphin Flag 10 Jan 24 11.16am Send a Private Message to The Dolphin Add The Dolphin as a friend

Originally posted by NEILLO

I have a vested interest into how public money is spent. Specifically by the Cabinet Office.

About 2 years ago, the CO was taken to court by a French IT company that had bid to build a new supercomputer for the Met Office.

Despite following all the CO's procurement guidelines, despite meeting all the spec requirements and despite quoting less than the other bidder, it was that other bidder, that won the tender.

I was due to attend Court but the night before the CO settled. They paid £24m of tax payers money to make it go away. All for not following their own in house procurement process.

I tried to find out more via a FOI request which was turned down.

I write to my local Conservative MP. He didn't want to know.

Draw your own conclusions !

Government, local government, the public sector as a whole wastes tens - maybe hundreds - of billions of pounds of our money every year.
From the small stuff like stationery all the way up to these ridiculous IT systems that never work.
The people doling out the contracts or buying the goods generally do not care - they don't see it as their money (even though a fraction of it is) and so they do not take the care or responsibility that they should.
I run my own business and when anything new has to happen I question it to the nth degree and play devil's advocate until I truly believe that I am doing the right thing for the right money.
I do not believe that anyone in the public sector does the same and on top of that most people supplying to the public sector regularly overcharge for their goods and services and no one gives a toss.
Every Government for too many years has done the exact same thing.
It is an expensive blot that with some decent leadership could be eradicated to a large extent very quickly.
From the moment Horizon was used all the way through to now people have lied and they should go to prison for their crimes and that includes Vennells and even Crozier if he was a part of it.
Let's see them suffer!

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
silvertop Flag Portishead 10 Jan 24 1.20pm Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by NEILLO

I have a vested interest into how public money is spent. Specifically by the Cabinet Office.

About 2 years ago, the CO was taken to court by a French IT company that had bid to build a new supercomputer for the Met Office.

Despite following all the CO's procurement guidelines, despite meeting all the spec requirements and despite quoting less than the other bidder, it was that other bidder, that won the tender.

I was due to attend Court but the night before the CO settled. They paid £24m of tax payers money to make it go away. All for not following their own in house procurement process.

I tried to find out more via a FOI request which was turned down.

I write to my local Conservative MP. He didn't want to know.

Draw your own conclusions !

Breaching procurement rules has a very tough burden of proof and limitation is measured in days not years so you will imagine how far from the path the government strayed to get that outcome.

What ground was cited for FOI refusal? Possibly a complaint to the information commissioner?

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
JRW2 Flag Dulwich 10 Jan 24 3.54pm Send a Private Message to JRW2 Add JRW2 as a friend

Even before Sunak announced that all convicted postmasters would be acquitted, experts were criticising such a move on the grounds that it would represent an unprecedented case of granting Parliament primacy over the Judiciary, which would be an affront to our democracy. On "The World at One" former Cabinet Secretary Sir Gus O'Donnell took the same line.

An emailer to LBC this morning pointed out that this wouldn't be unprecedented, since Parliament had done the same when it decided in the late nineties to release convicted IRA terrorists, torturers and murderers.

I'm no expert, but that makes sense to me.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
steeleye20 Flag Croydon 10 Jan 24 7.33pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

I am against this, politicians overturning judicial decisions.

It is an emotive case where the sub POs have been failed, but this could be used in other circumstances where this may not be the case, and for political gain.

I think we should find some other way, and essentially compensate them forthwith regardless.

They still have a long way to go, sometimes I think George Bernard Shaw's famous quote of a 'conspiracy against society' was not without merit.


 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply

  

Page 5 of 10 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >

Previous Topic | Next Topic

You are here: Home > Message Board > News & Politics > Mr Bates vs The Post Office