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legaleagle  21 Aug 15 9.01am |
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Quote leggedstruggle at 21 Aug 2015 8.06am
I compliment you on a post which shows no evidence of ever having actually read what I've posted But am pleased to note that I have evolved in your own marine world from being a cuttlefish to being a squid Edited by legaleagle (21 Aug 2015 9.06am)
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.The ichthyologist expands into cephalopods. | jamiemartin721 Reading 21 Aug 15 9.30am |
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Quote Tom-the-eagle at 20 Aug 2015 10.19pm
Quote legaleagle at 20 Aug 2015 7.45pm
I'm not saying a fear of being branded racist has never come into a potential child abuse investigation,including some you've mentioned. But it needs to be seen in terms of the overall picture ,not just what the popular press might highlight. You cite Oxford as an example,presumably because most (but not all) of the gang of abusers were of pakistani origin. The independent review into what went on there concluded: "The report follows the jailing in 2013 of seven members of a predominantly pakistani gang in Oxford which groomed girls as young as 12 over a period of eight years. Five of them were given life sentences. At least 300 victims of child sexual exploitation are known in Oxfordshire At least 300 victims of child sexual exploitation are known in Oxfordshire In his report the independent reviewer, Alan Bedford, said that scores of professionals had failed to pick up on the child sexual exploitation and appeared to blame victims, seeing them as adults rather than as vulnerable children with a long chaotic history. He said what had happened to the six girls who were the focus of his report was “indescribably awful” but said there had been no evidence of wilful professional neglect or misconduct by organisations. He also said there was no evidence of professionals failing to act because of racial sensitivities – the charge levelled against the authorities in Rotherham in a more critical report last year. However he said that there had been a “worrying lack of curiosity to follow through” and much work should have been “considerably different and better”. I think the main reason for child abuse going undetected has been a lack of resources devoted to tacking it in the past and an unwillingness by some in positions of authority to take it seriously when its easier to brush it under the carpet. The Department for Education last year recorded 48,000 kids needing protection from abuse last year.Its a nationwide issue and abusers come in all shapes sizes.races and ethnicities. The NSPCC reckons 1 in 20 children have been abused.That's an average on some on almost every street.Thee NSPCC reckon over 90% of kids abused knew the abuser.
Evening Legal, just out of interest - do you have an opinion as to why so many of these paedophile gangs are of pakistani decent? Why do you think that paedophile gangs are 'predominately' of pakistani decent? You'd be wrong, its just that there have been some recent cases - In all those cases you can see that what actually led those groups to prosper is the same thing that allows sexual predators to prosper - they targeted victims who were held in low regard by society. Time and again throughout cases of child sex abuse, the focus of those offenders who have been proflific over time, has been a focus on those in the care system and specifically among them, those who are deemed 'troublesome'; ie people the police aren't overly interested in, and are deemed by those in the care system as 'lost causes'. Being pakistani is what united the offenders, not what drove their offending. Criminal gangs of all types tend to form shared bonds, typically of place and race. By selecting white girls, in care, with a history of trouble, they effectively hit upon low risk targets. Over time that brings offenders togeather and they form an increasingly organized network, that draws in more members over time. Because the targets are white girls, who are 'trouble' a blind eye to what is going on probably also occurs within their community as well. A tragic state of affairs, but its not the ingenuity of the offender, that usually leds to people getting away with it, its the regard society holds for the victims.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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 dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 21 Aug 15 9.43am |
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Quote legaleagle at 20 Aug 2015 9.37pm
No,only people who give the appearance of despising anyone and everyone who is of a different race,religion or ethnicity to them. Edited by legaleagle (20 Aug 2015 9.39pm) I'm amazed you can reply at all what with you wringing your hands all the time.
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 21 Aug 15 9.47am |
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Quote leggedstruggle at 21 Aug 2015 8.06am
That's not what he is saying, he's saying that they are not specifically crimes associated with Muslims and pakistani men or community, but that the offenders are singled out specifically because of their race and religion, and used as an example of the majority. Interestingly, of course when we talk about sex crimes, the vast majority are committed by white, church of England, men, but they're typically presented as a crime without reference to race and or religion. Even in the Catholic Priest scandals, there is no implication that being Catholic is synonomus with being a sex offender (except maybe in certain sectarian circles). Inferring that someone being pakistani and Male, or a Muslim, makes you more likely to be a pedophile is a false argument, presenting minority representation within a group as synonomys of a culture, is bordering on prejudice. You'll find plenty of fraud, terrorism, crime and sexual abuse committed by people irrespective of their country of origin.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 21 Aug 15 9.51am |
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Quote TheJudge at 20 Aug 2015 10.22pm
Quote legaleagle at 20 Aug 2015 10.00pm
Well,goodness man,criticism of Lutfur was so suppressed that there was a massive investigation and legal case, and massive publicity about it.And there was very loud and vocal criticism of him within Tower Hamlets from the outset.And you will note that I stated that personally I have no time for the man. But,I think you just didn't get my actual point in response to your original point (and the fault may be mine for not getting it across adequately) but can't really add on that score to my last post. Though for the avoidance of doubt,I think our liberal democracy (with its many faults) isn't a bad environment to live in and preferable to many.I just don't buy the line about a non corrupt anglo saxon political culture that's under threat from immigrants and their nefarious ways.Political "corruption" of different sorts always been there at a level in the background,particularly in "rotten boroughs" (or nationally as with the expenses scandal)and no doubt likely always will be,regardless of whether we've become a more multi cultural country through immigration in the past 60 years. Edited by legaleagle (20 Aug 2015 10.10pm) I can't disagree with any of that other than to say that because this country has experienced home grow criminality it does not make imported criminality any more acceptable or any less criminal. This I agree with, and I would put money on the fact that if those kids were from a different background, that the police and authorities would have been all over the complaints. The fear of racism is the excuse that's acceptable to the majority, the reality of the problem is the low regard we hold for those victims (typically in care, runaways, troubled youth etc).
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| dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 21 Aug 15 9.57am |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 21 Aug 2015 9.30am
Quote Tom-the-eagle at 20 Aug 2015 10.19pm
Quote legaleagle at 20 Aug 2015 7.45pm
I'm not saying a fear of being branded racist has never come into a potential child abuse investigation,including some you've mentioned. But it needs to be seen in terms of the overall picture ,not just what the popular press might highlight. You cite Oxford as an example,presumably because most (but not all) of the gang of abusers were of pakistani origin. The independent review into what went on there concluded: "The report follows the jailing in 2013 of seven members of a predominantly pakistani gang in Oxford which groomed girls as young as 12 over a period of eight years. Five of them were given life sentences. At least 300 victims of child sexual exploitation are known in Oxfordshire At least 300 victims of child sexual exploitation are known in Oxfordshire In his report the independent reviewer, Alan Bedford, said that scores of professionals had failed to pick up on the child sexual exploitation and appeared to blame victims, seeing them as adults rather than as vulnerable children with a long chaotic history. He said what had happened to the six girls who were the focus of his report was “indescribably awful” but said there had been no evidence of wilful professional neglect or misconduct by organisations. He also said there was no evidence of professionals failing to act because of racial sensitivities – the charge levelled against the authorities in Rotherham in a more critical report last year. However he said that there had been a “worrying lack of curiosity to follow through” and much work should have been “considerably different and better”. I think the main reason for child abuse going undetected has been a lack of resources devoted to tacking it in the past and an unwillingness by some in positions of authority to take it seriously when its easier to brush it under the carpet. The Department for Education last year recorded 48,000 kids needing protection from abuse last year.Its a nationwide issue and abusers come in all shapes sizes.races and ethnicities. The NSPCC reckons 1 in 20 children have been abused.That's an average on some on almost every street.Thee NSPCC reckon over 90% of kids abused knew the abuser.
Evening Legal, just out of interest - do you have an opinion as to why so many of these paedophile gangs are of pakistani decent? Why do you think that paedophile gangs are 'predominately' of pakistani decent? You'd be wrong, its just that there have been some recent cases - In all those cases you can see that what actually led those groups to prosper is the same thing that allows sexual predators to prosper - they targeted victims who were held in low regard by society. Beacause dear boy it has been a fact highlighted by recent cases across the country, or did the evil " Anglo Saxon (FFS) make it all up to oppress the poor, poor, hard done by immigrants who just wanted a bit of whitey underage ass. Time and again throughout cases of child sex abuse, the focus of those offenders who have been proflific over time, has been a focus on those in the care system and specifically among them, those who are deemed 'troublesome'; ie people the police aren't overly interested in, and are deemed by those in the care system as 'lost causes'. Utter tosh and cobblers just because children are vulnerable does not make (or fcking) shouldn't make them easy targets for child abuse, and your baseless defense that, the authorities wouldn't have given a s*** no matter what the perpetrators origin is also utter bollicks. Being pakistani is what united the offenders, not what drove their offending. Criminal gangs of all types tend to form shared bonds, typically of place and race. By selecting white girls, in care, with a history of trouble, they effectively hit upon low risk targets. Over time that brings offenders togeather and they form an increasingly organized network, that draws in more members over time. Oh well now you've explained that, poor fellows might as well let them carry on then. Your ignorance and assumptions astound me. A tragic state of affairs, but its not the ingenuity of the offender, that usually leds to people getting away with it, its the regard society holds for the victims. Are you actually suggesting that the reports he were ignored just because the children were from poor backgrounds ??? Tell me were you on the defense for these animals
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 21 Aug 15 10.13am |
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Quote dannyh at 21 Aug 2015 9.57am
Oh well now you've explained that, poor fellows might as well let them carry on then. That's not what I'm saying though, I'm saying they're no different than any other successful pedophile network or group, and that being pakistani is irrelivent. Of course they should be tried for their crimes and dealt with, but that's it makes no difference if they're white, brown, black, muslim, atheist or catholic Because the targets are white girls, who are 'trouble' a blind eye to what is going on probably also occurs within their community as well. Quote dannyh at 21 Aug 2015 9.57am
Your ignorance and assumptions astound me. Except for being true, that the most successful groups of organized child sex offenders are those that typically target those in care. They're the people that the police and authorities tend to not listen to when they make a complaint. Its been happening for decades. Look at a big case of child sex abuse that's gone on for years with multiple offenders, and you'll almost always find it linked to children in care, care homes and institutes organized around 'trouble youth'. Quote dannyh at 21 Aug 2015 9.57am
Are you actually suggesting that the reports he were ignored just because the children were from poor backgrounds ??? Tell me were you on the defense for these animals Yes, because that's what happens time and time again, they're easy to ignore. They have no parents likely to make a fuss, they're in and out of trouble, likely to be a bad influence on the other kids, runaways etc. Its exactly the same as how serial killers who focus on prostitutes, runaways, the homeless get away with it. They aren't seen as a priority of interest to expend resources on, they make poor witnesses and generally get seen as 'crying wolf' or somehow bringing it on themselves. If they'd been a few nice working class girls or middle class girls, the authorities take an interest. When its the most vulnerable people in society, they don't; these kids were written off not really because the authority were scared of being branded racist, but because they were seen as not being worth the risk of being branded a racist. After all, if some one told you someone was raping kids, would you be worried about what other people thought of you for speaking out. Me neither.
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Kermit8  Hevon 21 Aug 15 10.27am |
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By far the worst peado gang I can recall where all white British.they still haven't found all the children's bodies yet and I'm not talking about the moors murderers. So if the Rotherham lot are paedos because they are pakistani then the other lot must be paedos because they are White and British. It must be in our culture. Edited by Kermit8 (21 Aug 2015 10.31am)
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| johnfirewall 21 Aug 15 10.41am |
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Quote Kermit8 at 21 Aug 2015 10.27am
By far the worst peado gang I can recall where all white British.they still haven't found all the children's bodies yet and I'm not talking about the moors murderers. So if the Rotherham lot are paedos because they are pakistani then the other lot must be paedos because they are White and British. It must be in our culture.
Guessing you had to exercise a lot of restraint in omitting that they were Tories or are you referring to someone else? The issue is of the reasons it went univestigated not of it being a common attribute among people from whichever background. Edited by johnfirewall (21 Aug 2015 10.44am)
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| Kermit8 Hevon 21 Aug 15 10.54am |
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Quote johnfirewall at 21 Aug 2015 10.41am
Quote Kermit8 at 21 Aug 2015 10.27am
By far the worst peado gang I can recall where all white British.they still haven't found all the children's bodies yet and I'm not talking about the moors murderers. So if the Rotherham lot are paedos because they are pakistani then the other lot must be paedos because they are White and British. It must be in our culture.
Guessing you had to exercise a lot of restraint in omitting that they were Tories or are you referring to someone else? The issue is of the reasons it went univestigated not of it being a common attribute among people from whichever background. Edited by johnfirewall (21 Aug 2015 10.44am)
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 21 Aug 15 10.59am |
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Quote johnfirewall at 21 Aug 2015 10.41am
Quote Kermit8 at 21 Aug 2015 10.27am
By far the worst peado gang I can recall where all white British.they still haven't found all the children's bodies yet and I'm not talking about the moors murderers. So if the Rotherham lot are paedos because they are pakistani then the other lot must be paedos because they are White and British. It must be in our culture.
Guessing you had to exercise a lot of restraint in omitting that they were Tories or are you referring to someone else? The issue is of the reasons it went univestigated not of it being a common attribute among people from whichever background. Edited by johnfirewall (21 Aug 2015 10.44am) I wouldn't say that was true for all posters, but yes. But what also links those cases such as Savile, MPs like Smith, The Elm Guest house and others is the tendency to target children in care or vulnerable kids. Time and again, where you see repeated offences, committed by groups, without prosecution, it tends to be because of the unwillingness of a Childrens Home and authorities of such homes, to take notice and when the police have become involved the cases are usually dismissed as being 'mad up', 'fantasies' or just 'making trouble'. They're not see as worth the risk or trouble. This time out the excuse is 'fear of being called a racist', rather than fear of celebrity or upset and so on. In a lot of these cases lower ranking and frontline staff report concerns, that more senior (ie politically sensitive) individuals ignore, reject or otherwise dismiss. The path of least resistance. Maybe they were 'afraid of being called racists', but really do you think people think that's more important than child rape. I would suspect that most of the kids are written off as not worth it.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 21 Aug 15 11.03am |
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Quote Kermit8 at 21 Aug 2015 10.27am
By far the worst peado gang I can recall where all white British.they still haven't found all the children's bodies yet and I'm not talking about the moors murderers. So if the Rotherham lot are paedos because they are pakistani then the other lot must be paedos because they are White and British. It must be in our culture. Edited by Kermit8 (21 Aug 2015 10.31am) White, Christian who lived up the road from my parents for a decade, was sent down for 12 years for raping two girls in 2005 and 2007. Another white child sex offender, used to live a street or two over from them. He volunteered at a Baptist youth center. Obviously its a pattern.
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