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Brendan Rodgers/Mourinho's Offspring

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View sydtheeagle's Profile sydtheeagle Flag East Midlands 26 Jul 12 10.48am Send a Private Message to sydtheeagle Add sydtheeagle as a friend

Am I the only one who's noticed that Mourinho's coaching offspring (Rodgers and Villas Boas, principally) seem to have inherited his attitude, but not entirely his coaching skills or native ability. Brendan Rodgers, it strikes me, did an extremely competent but hardly earth-shaking job at Swansea (he made them functional, difficult to beat, and they certainly got the rub of the green), but the way he's strutting round self-publicising is all too reminiscent of AVB at Chelsea this time last year. You'd think he had a couple of Champions League and World Cup wins under his belt.

I can't help thinking that, just as AVB was found wanting the first time he managed a really top rank squad, Rodgers by Christmas -- especially the way he's handling the likes of Carroll and some of his implicit criticisms of Dalglish -- is going to find his players quickly tire of him. There really isn't any evidence that he's that good. Mourinho, when he landed at Stamford Bridge, did have a Champions League win under his belt...not quite the same thing as having kept Swansea in the Premiership.

There's a fine line between "bright young manager" and "self-absorbed prat". Rodgers, at best, seems to be sailing far too close to it for comfort. He may think he is, but he's not Alex Ferguson yet.

 


Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

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View Stuk's Profile Stuk Flag Top half 26 Jul 12 10.53am Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Agree completely. Fine line between arrogance and confidence and those two are on the wrong side of it.

The attitude works for Mourinho because he more than backs it up. 1 loss at home in how many years was it? Nevermind winning leagues in 4 countries, Champions league in 2 etc.

 


Optimistic as ever

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View RainhamEagle's Profile RainhamEagle Flag Bromley 26 Jul 12 11.13am Send a Private Message to RainhamEagle Add RainhamEagle as a friend

Rodgers just inherited what Martinez built at Swansea and didn't change anything, maybe a few tweaks here and there. He didn't do too well at Reading or Watford, I think he'll get found out at Liverpool.

 

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View OknotOK's Profile OknotOK Flag Cockfosters, London 26 Jul 12 11.37am Send a Private Message to OknotOK Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add OknotOK as a friend

I actually think Rodgers is a decent manager but there is no doubt he inherited a structure at Swansea built by Martinez (and to a lesser extent Sousa) that suited his style. He was then well backed by the chairman.

AVB - although he was "found out" - had won the quadruple at Porto, including the UEFA cup (the only European competition he was involved in - winning the Champions League when he wasn't in it seems a bit of an unfair expectation).

AVB had a thankless task. He was expected to get them playing great football. And ship out all the oldies. And bring in lots of youngsters. And still get close to winning the title. And all within weeks of having met the players

I don't see how it was feasible. Di Matteo came in and was allowed to not change the entire spine of the team - so unsurprisingly was more successful

Edited by OknotOK (26 Jul 2012 11.37am)

 


"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

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View sydtheeagle's Profile sydtheeagle Flag East Midlands 26 Jul 12 12.09pm Send a Private Message to sydtheeagle Add sydtheeagle as a friend

Quote OknotOK at 26 Jul 2012 11.37am

AVB had a thankless task. He was expected to get them playing great football. And ship out all the oldies. And bring in lots of youngsters. And still get close to winning the title. And all within weeks of having met the players

I don't see how it was feasible. Di Matteo came in and was allowed to not change the entire spine of the team - so unsurprisingly was more successful

Edited by OknotOK (26 Jul 2012 11.37am)

Structurally, I think that's a fair analysis. But AVB's downfall was at least as much his arrogance as results. Part of management is certainly delivering success, but how you get there is usually a by-product of how you treat your employees, your peers, and if you're in a public position, the media. The fact that AVB failed on all three of those counts rendered the results on the pitch at least somewhat less significant; everybody was gunning for him. No good will existed. As soon as the first chinks appeared on the pitch, the knives came out. I know Abramovich is renowned for his lack of patience, but I can't help thinking that if AVB had been the most popular man on the Fulham Road, had the players all been behind him, and had Stamford Bridge been a happy camp then he'd have at least had until the end of the season.

My guess is that while for now Liverpool players will keep their own counsel (there's no mileage standing up to a brand new manager), if I saw one of my colleagues (particularly an England colleague, for those internationals in the Liverpool side) being treated by a novice manager the way Andy Carroll is being disrespected, then I'd be thinking "there but for the grace of God" and I'm pretty sure that if and when things started to become a battle on the pitch, I'd be quite happy to let what goes around come back around.

Rodgers may turn out to be as good as he thinks he is or he may not. But at the end of the day football is a simple game and great man-management (Ferguson, Shankly, Clough, Mourinho -- ever seen an innovative Mourinho side?) rather than tactical genius tends to win titles. And from where I sit, Rodgers' man management skills are nowhere near big club/international player level. That, to me, does not bode well for the future.

 


Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

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View adc's Profile adc Flag 26 Jul 12 12.24pm Send a Private Message to adc Add adc as a friend

Mourinho like you said can back up his arrogance with results. I like him. Rogers on the other hand needs more time in the job before i can make a proper judgement. I havent seen the outright arrogance AVB displayed when he came into the Chelsea job... Yet. The way AVB treated some of the senior players, especialy Frank Lampard pissed off a lot of Chelsea fans and you would hope Rogers has reviewed AVB's mistakes that lead to his downfall. Whilst Carroll isnt anywhere near on par with the legend status Lampard has he needs to be more careful about what he says about players. Carroll is clearly not wanted but say the Newcastle deal falls through, Rogers is stuck with a player he outright said isnt going to get a chance. Not smart.

 

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View OknotOK's Profile OknotOK Flag Cockfosters, London 26 Jul 12 2.24pm Send a Private Message to OknotOK Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add OknotOK as a friend

Quote sydtheeagle at 26 Jul 2012 12.09pm

Structurally, I think that's a fair analysis. But AVB's downfall was at least as much his arrogance as results. Part of management is certainly delivering success, but how you get there is usually a by-product of how you treat your employees, your peers, and if you're in a public position, the media. The fact that AVB failed on all three of those counts rendered the results on the pitch at least somewhat less significant; everybody was gunning for him. No good will existed. As soon as the first chinks appeared on the pitch, the knives came out. I know Abramovich is renowned for his lack of patience, but I can't help thinking that if AVB had been the most popular man on the Fulham Road, had the players all been behind him, and had Stamford Bridge been a happy camp then he'd have at least had until the end of the season.

True I think AVB's arrogance and failure to communicate well with the media put greater pressure on the results.

But I still think to an extent the breakdown in the relationship with the players wasn't his fault. He was forced into the situation of alientating the elder statesmen of the club because he had been employed with the specific remit of pushing them sooner rather than later to the sidelines.

This meant he automatically pi$$ed off some of the biggest characters and names at the club and caused bad feeling.

Add that to the fact he was being employed to play attractive football - hence why they were so open at the start of the season - which was also quite a significant mentality change, and losing makes everyone more edgey and unhappy.

Di Matteo came in and started to play tight defensive football and was allowed to play all the older players again.

Basically everything that caused problems for AVB from a footballing perspective, RDM was allowed to not do and so had a happier dressing room.

I do think AVB's arrogance was a big problem though for someone with limited experience. Mourinho's success (and rapid success) with no experience of the English league was definitely the exception, not the rule. The personal assumption that he [AVB] would be successful was foolish and he was unable to adequately deal with the (relative) failure.

I think the problem for Brendan Rodgers is that Liverpool play a style of football that is out of sync with his ethos and have very few players set up to play that style of football. Last season Swansea put in amongst the fewest crosses in the league. Liverpool put in the most. Liverpool played pressing and counter attacking football at pace. Swansea played patient possession football. Arrogant or not he has a massive job on his hands.

Edited by OknotOK (26 Jul 2012 2.26pm)

 


"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

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View SpikeyMatt's Profile SpikeyMatt Flag Fishing for condiments 26 Jul 12 5.04pm Send a Private Message to SpikeyMatt Add SpikeyMatt as a friend

Whenever people say Brendan Rodgers is some kind of tactical god, I refer them to the match last season when he played three at the back at home to Wolves and they conceded 4 times.

By and large though, I like Rodgers in spite of his choosing of going to my most despised club. His coaching philosophy is one that should be applauded though equally it's worth acknowledging that the perceived total football played by Swansea was not all his doing, not by a long chalk, but by the ground work done by Roberto Martinez and Paulo Sousa (as acknowledged by Rainham Eagle/OKnotOK). I certainly don't recall his Watford and Reading sides playing particularly scintillating champagne football but then you have to achieve with what you're given - anyone expecting Liverpool to come out and play like Swansea did last season is a bit misguided.

It's all good and well having the pomp and bravado but unless he can back that up with results, he'll be out of the door quicker than you can say "You'll Never Walk Alone".

 


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