Pulis' achievements
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 BenHarrison  25 Feb 14 1.26pm |
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Hi all, Thought this article might be of interest. It discusses how most fans assess how well their club is doing, and proposes a different way of measuring success based on: - wage spend Against all of these metrics, Pulis has been up against it, and yet has led Palace to way more points than anyone could have reasonably predicted. Manager of the season if he keeps the team up? B
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 25 Feb 14 3.57pm |
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Quite agree - Fans have a perspective that is at odds with the real facts behind the club. Not least of all their financial capacity to compete. This, I think, has somewhat masked Pulis achievements as a manager, because the eye of celebrity in football falls on trophies (so much so that arsenal fans were questioning Wenger's capability). My guess* would be if you rationally broke down club achievements against a wider range of variables, you'd find Pulis and Martinez ranking up there with Wenger and Ferguson, as very successful, high achieving football managers. Meanwhile clubs like Chelsea and Manchester City are praised to the high heavens, despite a revolving door management policy, because they can effectively buy competitiveness on a regular basis. Could Fergie have achieved two league titles with Stoke City or Wigan? Would Marino won consecutive league titles with Palace? Of course not. Anyone could get a top two finish with Celtic or Rangers. Time for a reprise. I think, we actually have one of the most successful managers in UK football at the moment. Of course, they don't because they don't win leagues, trophies or compete in the champions league. Yet arguably Pulis and Martinez are probably the two most overachieving managers in the premier league.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| BenHarrison 25 Feb 14 6.04pm |
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Hi Jamie, Really interesting views, and having looked into this area, much in line with my own. Would you be interested in perhaps writing a piece for Hit Row Z setting out why Martinez and Pulis are underrated? On Palace having one of the best managers in the league, I think you could definitely make a case for it, and it is being played out on the pitch.
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| maxipalace in a box 25 Feb 14 9.04pm |
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Quote BenHarrison at 25 Feb 2014 1.26pm
Hi all, Thought this article might be of interest. It discusses how most fans assess how well their club is doing, and proposes a different way of measuring success based on: - wage spend Against all of these metrics, Pulis has been up against it, and yet has led Palace to way more points than anyone could have reasonably predicted. Manager of the season if he keeps the team up? B
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| maxipalace in a box 25 Feb 14 9.21pm |
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I think most fans are aware that there is a general rule of thumb that dictates spend = league position in the premier league I watched the game on Sat and found it largely devoid of excitement. We were in the game for an hour but i felt Man Utd were below par. Southampton are the only team that consistently promote youngsters into their team and for teams like us who want to prosper i feel this is the only way we can compete I watched the game on sat and thought shame williams was not involved. Somebody not afraid
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| Kingvagabond London 25 Feb 14 9.57pm |
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Quote maxipalace at 25 Feb 2014 9.21pm
Southampton are the only team that consistently promote youngsters into their team and for teams like us who want to prosper i feel this is the only way we can compete While in essence I agree with you here is the Southampton team from Saturday v West Ham: Southampton That's 2 players out of the 11.
Part of Holmesdale Radio: The Next Generation Quote cornwalls palace at 24 Oct 2012 9.37am He was right!!!...and we killed him!!... poor Orpinton Eagles........ |
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| maxipalace in a box 25 Feb 14 10.07pm |
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Quote Kingvagabond at 25 Feb 2014 9.57pm
Quote maxipalace at 25 Feb 2014 9.21pm
Southampton are the only team that consistently promote youngsters into their team and for teams like us who want to prosper i feel this is the only way we can compete While in essence I agree with you here is the Southampton team from Saturday v West Ham: Southampton That's 2 players out of the 11.
Edited by maxipalace (25 Feb 2014 10.11pm)
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| Kingvagabond London 25 Feb 14 10.15pm |
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Bah humbug.
Part of Holmesdale Radio: The Next Generation Quote cornwalls palace at 24 Oct 2012 9.37am He was right!!!...and we killed him!!... poor Orpinton Eagles........ |
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| BenHarrison 26 Feb 14 10.30am |
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Hi all, I think the point is well made that fans get the link between finances and performance. What is probably less well appreciated is that it's wages, rather than net transfer spend that tends to most closely govern how well a team does. And even then, it doesn't stop us from aiming for the moon! Re the question of how well Pulis would have done should Palace go down, I still think the answer would be very well. By rights, that's where the club "should" finish, given the constraints it faces. In my view putting up a strong fight, which he is doing, represents good performance. Achieving safety would be a significant over-performance. But then, a big question looms. What should Palace do if they survive? Invest further?
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| Canterbury Palace Whitstable 26 Feb 14 11.10am |
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This is Pulis' record since he arrived; Tony Pulis W7 D1 L8 That form, if carried on over an entire season, would see us finish on 50+ points so it's clear he's currently overachieving. By contrast, here is how three of the other contenders for the job have got on since they found clubs; Aitor Karanka W6 D6 L6 Clearly Karanka's record is the only one even close and the pre-season expectation for Middlesbrough in their respective league was far higher than ours was. So performance wise he is undoubtedly up there with the best in the league. Having said that, I don't really think you can compare someone managing a club trying to scrap for points to stay up with with someone like Mourinho who is expected to win the league. It's like a totally different job and David Moyes is an example of someone who can be fantastically successful at a certain level over a long period of time and then struggle after making the step up in size.
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold... |
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| BenHarrison 26 Feb 14 2.37pm |
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That's also a great question - can managers work their way up the different levels in the Premier League? Not many examples, but Moyes and Martinez would be two worth considering. Very different fortunes this season...
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| maxipalace in a box 26 Feb 14 7.47pm |
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Quote BenHarrison at 26 Feb 2014 10.30am
Hi all, I think the point is well made that fans get the link between finances and performance. What is probably less well appreciated is that it's wages, rather than net transfer spend that tends to most closely govern how well a team does. And even then, it doesn't stop us from aiming for the moon! Re the question of how well Pulis would have done should Palace go down, I still think the answer would be very well. By rights, that's where the club "should" finish, given the constraints it faces. In my view putting up a strong fight, which he is doing, represents good performance. Achieving safety would be a significant over-performance. But then, a big question looms. What should Palace do if they survive? Invest further?
I think the next 3 games against ball playing teams will give us an indication wether or not we will survive
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