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View PsychoPaul's Profile PsychoPaul Flag 26 Feb 14 9.10am Send a Private Message to PsychoPaul Add PsychoPaul as a friend

Hippy!

 

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View Johnny D's Profile Johnny D Flag Beckenham 26 Feb 14 9.17am Send a Private Message to Johnny D Add Johnny D as a friend

Quote PsychoPaul at 26 Feb 2014 12.33am

Quote Johnny D at 25 Feb 2014 11.42pm

Or just don't act like a t*** in the first place and you'll never be arrested and never end up in the legal system to begin with!

Your subject title is hypocritical as well, isn't it? Talking about 'all being regarded as criminals' and then calling 'all coppers b******s'.

Just a bit sad that is.

You obviously missed the point, you can act perfectly legally and still get grief or arrested. There are some fair cops but most are merely their to follow the orders of the corrupt state. Try using your legal right to protest, chances are the moment it becomes effective you would be held in a kettle against your will for hours, photographed, deemed a terrorist or a subversive threat etc. etc.
Sure most footie supporters are unlikely to get nicked for attending a match but if you read the examples in the article it's not against the realms of possibility is it.
I've seen the police do a lot worse things over the years outside football. The article merely points out it's becoming a trend, so just pays to be prepared.


No I haven't missed the point. I'm sure there's plenty of other examples out there the journalist could have used too. My point is that if you behave yourself and don't break the law, you won't have any issues in the first place. Yes you'll probably get searched at some point and most of us are often inconvenienced caught up in police escorts around back streets or kept behind after games, many times. 99% of those people are never looking for trouble, but there's always a few idiots who are or who will join in if it comes to them. That's the nature of being a football fan unfortunately, you don't get all that at rugby or cricket. They may seem like strong measures but I personally don't have a problem with it, I can see why it's necessary and the only people to blame for it all are that extreme minority who use football as an excuse to act stupid/be violent.

It just surprises me how much people moan about it all the time, like it's not done for a reason. Be in the wrong place at the wrong time or try and resist in Europe and there's fair chance the Police will just beat the crap out of you. Dozens have been shot dead during protesting/disorder in the Ukraine recently, and I bet they weren't waiting to see if they were one of the ones who threw a brick first. I'm just saying it's not ideal but the way football is policed in the UK is as fair as it can be, with the priority having to be just preventing the trouble from starting in the first place.

You may feel football fans are dealt with too harshly in the justice system, but my viewpoint is, don't get yourself arrested in the first place. And if you' feel you're wrongly arrested, there's just no way you will be convicted for an offence you haven't committed, because they'll be no evidence to prove you DID 'throw that bottle/push that steward', you'd like to think.

 

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goodersgold Flag Hastings 26 Feb 14 9.42am

Quote Johnny D at 26 Feb 2014 9.17am

Quote PsychoPaul at 26 Feb 2014 12.33am

Quote Johnny D at 25 Feb 2014 11.42pm

Or just don't act like a t*** in the first place and you'll never be arrested and never end up in the legal system to begin with!

Your subject title is hypocritical as well, isn't it? Talking about 'all being regarded as criminals' and then calling 'all coppers b******s'.

Just a bit sad that is.

You obviously missed the point, you can act perfectly legally and still get grief or arrested. There are some fair cops but most are merely their to follow the orders of the corrupt state. Try using your legal right to protest, chances are the moment it becomes effective you would be held in a kettle against your will for hours, photographed, deemed a terrorist or a subversive threat etc. etc.
Sure most footie supporters are unlikely to get nicked for attending a match but if you read the examples in the article it's not against the realms of possibility is it.
I've seen the police do a lot worse things over the years outside football. The article merely points out it's becoming a trend, so just pays to be prepared.


No I haven't missed the point. I'm sure there's plenty of other examples out there the journalist could have used too. My point is that if you behave yourself and don't break the law, you won't have any issues in the first place. Yes you'll probably get searched at some point and most of us are often inconvenienced caught up in police escorts around back streets or kept behind after games, many times. 99% of those people are never looking for trouble, but there's always a few idiots who are or who will join in if it comes to them. That's the nature of being a football fan unfortunately, you don't get all that at rugby or cricket. They may seem like strong measures but I personally don't have a problem with it, I can see why it's necessary and the only people to blame for it all are that extreme minority who use football as an excuse to act stupid/be violent.

It just surprises me how much people moan about it all the time, like it's not done for a reason. Be in the wrong place at the wrong time or try and resist in Europe and there's fair chance the Police will just beat the crap out of you. Dozens have been shot dead during protesting/disorder in the Ukraine recently, and I bet they weren't waiting to see if they were one of the ones who threw a brick first. I'm just saying it's not ideal but the way football is policed in the UK is as fair as it can be, with the priority having to be just preventing the trouble from starting in the first place.

You may feel football fans are dealt with too harshly in the justice system, but my viewpoint is, don't get yourself arrested in the first place. And if you' feel you're wrongly arrested, there's just no way you will be convicted for an offence you haven't committed, because they'll be no evidence to prove you DID 'throw that bottle/push that steward', you'd like to think.

Aren't you the good citizen?
Tell all that to the Palace fan who had his face savaged by a dog while being held down by the Police at the train station.
Sentencing should be consistent across the board not different from the rest of society .

 


The world was a mess but his hair was perfect!

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View npn's Profile npn Flag Crowborough 26 Feb 14 10.03am Send a Private Message to npn Add npn as a friend

Quote Johnny D at 25 Feb 2014 11.42pm

Or just don't act like a t*** in the first place and you'll never be arrested and never end up in the legal system to begin with!

Your subject title is hypocritical as well, isn't it? Talking about 'all being regarded as criminals' and then calling 'all coppers b******s'.

Just a bit sad that is.


I think you need to read the article.
Two examples from memory (cr@p memory even though I only read it 10 minutes ago):

1. Boro fan banned from travelling to SA for the World Cup, and when the bloke fought it and it got to court, it turns out their evidence that he was dodgy was footage of him leaving a pub which had some boro hooligans in it, and footage of him in a minibus in which another passenger had a cut on his face (no knowledge of hos he came about the cut, could have fallen over!)
2. 14 year old kid whisked off to a closed night club to be searched while the adult he was with was in the bog - so basically a minor taken off for two hours for no good reason.

It's actually quite a shocking read - I've been going to football for over 35 years and not had a bad experience with the OB, but some of those are very dodgy indeed, and doesn't involve undesirable characters. For arguments' sake, I used to drink in the Portmanor before games, and now the HF apparently drink there, and the OB clearly don't like them - does that now mean I can get banned from travelling because they've got my boyish good looks emerging from a pub they consider to be a hive of 'risk' supporters?

 

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View Johnny D's Profile Johnny D Flag Beckenham 26 Feb 14 10.32am Send a Private Message to Johnny D Add Johnny D as a friend

Quote goodersgold at 26 Feb 2014 9.42am

Quote Johnny D at 26 Feb 2014 9.17am

Quote PsychoPaul at 26 Feb 2014 12.33am

Quote Johnny D at 25 Feb 2014 11.42pm

Or just don't act like a t*** in the first place and you'll never be arrested and never end up in the legal system to begin with!

Your subject title is hypocritical as well, isn't it? Talking about 'all being regarded as criminals' and then calling 'all coppers b******s'.

Just a bit sad that is.

You obviously missed the point, you can act perfectly legally and still get grief or arrested. There are some fair cops but most are merely their to follow the orders of the corrupt state. Try using your legal right to protest, chances are the moment it becomes effective you would be held in a kettle against your will for hours, photographed, deemed a terrorist or a subversive threat etc. etc.
Sure most footie supporters are unlikely to get nicked for attending a match but if you read the examples in the article it's not against the realms of possibility is it.
I've seen the police do a lot worse things over the years outside football. The article merely points out it's becoming a trend, so just pays to be prepared.


No I haven't missed the point. I'm sure there's plenty of other examples out there the journalist could have used too. My point is that if you behave yourself and don't break the law, you won't have any issues in the first place. Yes you'll probably get searched at some point and most of us are often inconvenienced caught up in police escorts around back streets or kept behind after games, many times. 99% of those people are never looking for trouble, but there's always a few idiots who are or who will join in if it comes to them. That's the nature of being a football fan unfortunately, you don't get all that at rugby or cricket. They may seem like strong measures but I personally don't have a problem with it, I can see why it's necessary and the only people to blame for it all are that extreme minority who use football as an excuse to act stupid/be violent.

It just surprises me how much people moan about it all the time, like it's not done for a reason. Be in the wrong place at the wrong time or try and resist in Europe and there's fair chance the Police will just beat the crap out of you. Dozens have been shot dead during protesting/disorder in the Ukraine recently, and I bet they weren't waiting to see if they were one of the ones who threw a brick first. I'm just saying it's not ideal but the way football is policed in the UK is as fair as it can be, with the priority having to be just preventing the trouble from starting in the first place.

You may feel football fans are dealt with too harshly in the justice system, but my viewpoint is, don't get yourself arrested in the first place. And if you' feel you're wrongly arrested, there's just no way you will be convicted for an offence you haven't committed, because they'll be no evidence to prove you DID 'throw that bottle/push that steward', you'd like to think.

Aren't you the good citizen?
Tell all that to the Palace fan who had his face savaged by a dog while being held down by the Police at the train station.
Sentencing should be consistent across the board not different from the rest of society .

Well if being a good citizen is not acting like a t*** at a football match and just wanting to support my team, then yes I am.

I'd have no problem telling him that as I'm sure he'd at least agree that with me that if people weren't acting like dicks at football then he wouldn't have found himself in that situation in the first place. That's my point, right?

I wasn't there so it wouldn't really be fair to me to comment on that particular incident. But if I remember rightly, there were completely conflicting stories about whether he assaulted anyone and how he was behaving. His version in the press was obviously one side, personally I found it a little hard to believe he did absolutely nothing to end up getting bitten by a dog on the floor. If he did, then that's pretty awful. But if I was him I wouldn't only be furious with the police, I'd be furious with all those who were kicking off and put me in that situation in the first place.

 

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View soulboy's Profile soulboy Flag Lewisham 26 Feb 14 10.37am Send a Private Message to soulboy Add soulboy as a friend

Quote Johnny D at 26 Feb 2014 9.17am

Quote PsychoPaul at 26 Feb 2014 12.33am

Quote Johnny D at 25 Feb 2014 11.42pm

Or just don't act like a t*** in the first place and you'll never be arrested and never end up in the legal system to begin with!

Your subject title is hypocritical as well, isn't it? Talking about 'all being regarded as criminals' and then calling 'all coppers b******s'.

Just a bit sad that is.

You obviously missed the point, you can act perfectly legally and still get grief or arrested. There are some fair cops but most are merely their to follow the orders of the corrupt state. Try using your legal right to protest, chances are the moment it becomes effective you would be held in a kettle against your will for hours, photographed, deemed a terrorist or a subversive threat etc. etc.
Sure most footie supporters are unlikely to get nicked for attending a match but if you read the examples in the article it's not against the realms of possibility is it.
I've seen the police do a lot worse things over the years outside football. The article merely points out it's becoming a trend, so just pays to be prepared.


No I haven't missed the point. I'm sure there's plenty of other examples out there the journalist could have used too. My point is that if you behave yourself and don't break the law, you won't have any issues in the first place. Yes you'll probably get searched at some point and most of us are often inconvenienced caught up in police escorts around back streets or kept behind after games, many times. 99% of those people are never looking for trouble, but there's always a few idiots who are or who will join in if it comes to them. That's the nature of being a football fan unfortunately, you don't get all that at rugby or cricket. They may seem like strong measures but I personally don't have a problem with it, I can see why it's necessary and the only people to blame for it all are that extreme minority who use football as an excuse to act stupid/be violent.

It just surprises me how much people moan about it all the time, like it's not done for a reason. Be in the wrong place at the wrong time or try and resist in Europe and there's fair chance the Police will just beat the crap out of you. Dozens have been shot dead during protesting/disorder in the Ukraine recently, and I bet they weren't waiting to see if they were one of the ones who threw a brick first. I'm just saying it's not ideal but the way football is policed in the UK is as fair as it can be, with the priority having to be just preventing the trouble from starting in the first place.

You may feel football fans are dealt with too harshly in the justice system, but my viewpoint is, don't get yourself arrested in the first place. And if you' feel you're wrongly arrested, there's just no way you will be convicted for an offence you haven't committed, because they'll be no evidence to prove you DID 'throw that bottle/push that steward', you'd like to think.

As someone who has worked in and around the CJS system for a good many years, I have to say that you are wrong in your (naive) assumption that a wrongful arrest leads to acquittal at court. Don't confuse evidence with the truth as there are many ways of obtaining and producing evidence before a court, not all of them lawful.

 


"Deviance is a freedom enjoyed in a city of lightly engaged strangers"

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 26 Feb 14 10.50am Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend


You may feel football fans are dealt with too harshly in the justice system, but my viewpoint is, don't get yourself arrested in the first place. And if you' feel you're wrongly arrested, there's just no way you will be convicted for an offence you haven't committed, because they'll be no evidence to prove you DID 'throw that bottle/push that steward', you'd like to think.


------------------------------------------

I take it you didn't go to Brighton away.

The unfair treatment of fans was absolutely infuriating and in my humble opinion the Police quite often like to incite fans to prove they are needed to keep the peace.

See the thread about the Portmanor getting picked on.

Edited by Mapletree (26 Feb 2014 10.50am)

 

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View Johnny D's Profile Johnny D Flag Beckenham 26 Feb 14 10.52am Send a Private Message to Johnny D Add Johnny D as a friend

Quote soulboy at 26 Feb 2014 10.37am

Quote Johnny D at 26 Feb 2014 9.17am

Quote PsychoPaul at 26 Feb 2014 12.33am

Quote Johnny D at 25 Feb 2014 11.42pm

Or just don't act like a t*** in the first place and you'll never be arrested and never end up in the legal system to begin with!

Your subject title is hypocritical as well, isn't it? Talking about 'all being regarded as criminals' and then calling 'all coppers b******s'.

Just a bit sad that is.

You obviously missed the point, you can act perfectly legally and still get grief or arrested. There are some fair cops but most are merely their to follow the orders of the corrupt state. Try using your legal right to protest, chances are the moment it becomes effective you would be held in a kettle against your will for hours, photographed, deemed a terrorist or a subversive threat etc. etc.
Sure most footie supporters are unlikely to get nicked for attending a match but if you read the examples in the article it's not against the realms of possibility is it.
I've seen the police do a lot worse things over the years outside football. The article merely points out it's becoming a trend, so just pays to be prepared.


No I haven't missed the point. I'm sure there's plenty of other examples out there the journalist could have used too. My point is that if you behave yourself and don't break the law, you won't have any issues in the first place. Yes you'll probably get searched at some point and most of us are often inconvenienced caught up in police escorts around back streets or kept behind after games, many times. 99% of those people are never looking for trouble, but there's always a few idiots who are or who will join in if it comes to them. That's the nature of being a football fan unfortunately, you don't get all that at rugby or cricket. They may seem like strong measures but I personally don't have a problem with it, I can see why it's necessary and the only people to blame for it all are that extreme minority who use football as an excuse to act stupid/be violent.

It just surprises me how much people moan about it all the time, like it's not done for a reason. Be in the wrong place at the wrong time or try and resist in Europe and there's fair chance the Police will just beat the crap out of you. Dozens have been shot dead during protesting/disorder in the Ukraine recently, and I bet they weren't waiting to see if they were one of the ones who threw a brick first. I'm just saying it's not ideal but the way football is policed in the UK is as fair as it can be, with the priority having to be just preventing the trouble from starting in the first place.

You may feel football fans are dealt with too harshly in the justice system, but my viewpoint is, don't get yourself arrested in the first place. And if you' feel you're wrongly arrested, there's just no way you will be convicted for an offence you haven't committed, because they'll be no evidence to prove you DID 'throw that bottle/push that steward', you'd like to think.

As someone who has worked in and around the CJS system for a good many years, I have to say that you are wrong in your (naive) assumption that a wrongful arrest leads to acquittal at court. Don't confuse evidence with the truth as there are many ways of obtaining and producing evidence before a court, not all of them lawful.

As someone who has ALSO worked in and around the CJS for a good many years, I also have to say that I am not NOT wrong in my NOT naive, but informed OPINION (not 'assumption') that somebody wrongly arrested will get acquitted at court. Of course there are exceptions, but without CCTV, forensic evidence, independent witnesses etc it's highly unlikely the CPS will even decide to charge that person with the offence in the first place, let alone convince a jury that you committed the crime at court. Perhaps we can agree to disagree on that one.

 

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View Johnny D's Profile Johnny D Flag Beckenham 26 Feb 14 11.02am Send a Private Message to Johnny D Add Johnny D as a friend

Quote Mapletree at 26 Feb 2014 10.50am


You may feel football fans are dealt with too harshly in the justice system, but my viewpoint is, don't get yourself arrested in the first place. And if you' feel you're wrongly arrested, there's just no way you will be convicted for an offence you haven't committed, because they'll be no evidence to prove you DID 'throw that bottle/push that steward', you'd like to think.


------------------------------------------

I take it you didn't go to Brighton away.

The unfair treatment of fans was absolutely infuriating and in my humble opinion the Police quite often like to incite fans to prove they are needed to keep the peace.

See the thread about the Portmanor getting picked on.

Edited by Mapletree (26 Feb 2014 10.50am)

Yes I was there, both away games last season and the season before. I assume you are talking about when we were escorted around the streets up to the station, where there was trouble up the main road the season before, where Brighton fans were all held back in the pubs by the station. Frustrated as you were, people shouting homophobic abuse didn't exactly put us in a good light did it though. Or after the 3-0 defeat when we were held in the pouring rain for what felt like an hour, only for the 'special train' to take even longer going in the wrong direction. Trust me, I've been there just like you, it's not fun but they will always keep fans apart to stop the trouble rather than deal with it when arises. That minority ruin it for everyone, not those trying to stop it.

 

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View EsussexEagle's Profile EsussexEagle Flag 26 Feb 14 11.33am Send a Private Message to EsussexEagle Add EsussexEagle as a friend

Quote Johnny D at 26 Feb 2014 10.52am

Quote soulboy at 26 Feb 2014 10.37am

Quote Johnny D at 26 Feb 2014 9.17am

Quote PsychoPaul at 26 Feb 2014 12.33am

Quote Johnny D at 25 Feb 2014 11.42pm

Or just don't act like a t*** in the first place and you'll never be arrested and never end up in the legal system to begin with!

Your subject title is hypocritical as well, isn't it? Talking about 'all being regarded as criminals' and then calling 'all coppers b******s'.

Just a bit sad that is.

You obviously missed the point, you can act perfectly legally and still get grief or arrested. There are some fair cops but most are merely their to follow the orders of the corrupt state. Try using your legal right to protest, chances are the moment it becomes effective you would be held in a kettle against your will for hours, photographed, deemed a terrorist or a subversive threat etc. etc.
Sure most footie supporters are unlikely to get nicked for attending a match but if you read the examples in the article it's not against the realms of possibility is it.
I've seen the police do a lot worse things over the years outside football. The article merely points out it's becoming a trend, so just pays to be prepared.


No I haven't missed the point. I'm sure there's plenty of other examples out there the journalist could have used too. My point is that if you behave yourself and don't break the law, you won't have any issues in the first place. Yes you'll probably get searched at some point and most of us are often inconvenienced caught up in police escorts around back streets or kept behind after games, many times. 99% of those people are never looking for trouble, but there's always a few idiots who are or who will join in if it comes to them. That's the nature of being a football fan unfortunately, you don't get all that at rugby or cricket. They may seem like strong measures but I personally don't have a problem with it, I can see why it's necessary and the only people to blame for it all are that extreme minority who use football as an excuse to act stupid/be violent.

It just surprises me how much people moan about it all the time, like it's not done for a reason. Be in the wrong place at the wrong time or try and resist in Europe and there's fair chance the Police will just beat the crap out of you. Dozens have been shot dead during protesting/disorder in the Ukraine recently, and I bet they weren't waiting to see if they were one of the ones who threw a brick first. I'm just saying it's not ideal but the way football is policed in the UK is as fair as it can be, with the priority having to be just preventing the trouble from starting in the first place.

You may feel football fans are dealt with too harshly in the justice system, but my viewpoint is, don't get yourself arrested in the first place. And if you' feel you're wrongly arrested, there's just no way you will be convicted for an offence you haven't committed, because they'll be no evidence to prove you DID 'throw that bottle/push that steward', you'd like to think.

As someone who has worked in and around the CJS system for a good many years, I have to say that you are wrong in your (naive) assumption that a wrongful arrest leads to acquittal at court. Don't confuse evidence with the truth as there are many ways of obtaining and producing evidence before a court, not all of them lawful.

As someone who has ALSO worked in and around the CJS for a good many years, I also have to say that I am not NOT wrong in my NOT naive, but informed OPINION (not 'assumption') that somebody wrongly arrested will get acquitted at court. Of course there are exceptions, but without CCTV, forensic evidence, independent witnesses etc it's highly unlikely the CPS will even decide to charge that person with the offence in the first place, let alone convince a jury that you committed the crime at court. Perhaps we can agree to disagree on that one.

''The case went to court, but was thrown out. It was thrown out because Culvin, an experienced hand at dealing with these situations, had asked a fellow fan to film his encounter with the police on his phone before he approached them. And that film showed that Culvin categorically did not assault the police officer. Solicitor Melanie Cooke, who represented Culvin, says: “Once the CPS had reviewed the case in light of the defence representations and after viewing a DVD of the camera phone footage, the criminal proceedings were immediately discontinued”.

Quite clearly reading the paragraph above it was only because he had the foresight to get a friend to video that he wasn't prosecuted. The jury would have convicted purely on the Officers statement that they had been assaulted because a lot of people have the same view as yourself, you must have done something to be arrested.
There are a lot of Police Officers out there who do a really good job, but, as in many forms of office, there are always one or two who c@ck up the image for everyone else.

 

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View 7@burnley79's Profile 7@burnley79 Flag Battersea 26 Feb 14 11.53am Send a Private Message to 7@burnley79 Add 7@burnley79 as a friend

Quote Johnny D at 26 Feb 2014 9.17am

Quote PsychoPaul at 26 Feb 2014 12.33am

Quote Johnny D at 25 Feb 2014 11.42pm

Or just don't act like a t*** in the first place and you'll never be arrested and never end up in the legal system to begin with!

Your subject title is hypocritical as well, isn't it? Talking about 'all being regarded as criminals' and then calling 'all coppers b******s'.

Just a bit sad that is.

You obviously missed the point, you can act perfectly legally and still get grief or arrested. There are some fair cops but most are merely their to follow the orders of the corrupt state. Try using your legal right to protest, chances are the moment it becomes effective you would be held in a kettle against your will for hours, photographed, deemed a terrorist or a subversive threat etc. etc.
Sure most footie supporters are unlikely to get nicked for attending a match but if you read the examples in the article it's not against the realms of possibility is it.
I've seen the police do a lot worse things over the years outside football. The article merely points out it's becoming a trend, so just pays to be prepared.


No I haven't missed the point. I'm sure there's plenty of other examples out there the journalist could have used too. My point is that if you behave yourself and don't break the law, you won't have any issues in the first place. Yes you'll probably get searched at some point and most of us are often inconvenienced caught up in police escorts around back streets or kept behind after games, many times. 99% of those people are never looking for trouble, but there's always a few idiots who are or who will join in if it comes to them. That's the nature of being a football fan unfortunately, you don't get all that at rugby or cricket. They may seem like strong measures but I personally don't have a problem with it, I can see why it's necessary and the only people to blame for it all are that extreme minority who use football as an excuse to act stupid/be violent.

It just surprises me how much people moan about it all the time, like it's not done for a reason. Be in the wrong place at the wrong time or try and resist in Europe and there's fair chance the Police will just beat the crap out of you. Dozens have been shot dead during protesting/disorder in the Ukraine recently, and I bet they weren't waiting to see if they were one of the ones who threw a brick first. I'm just saying it's not ideal but the way football is policed in the UK is as fair as it can be, with the priority having to be just preventing the trouble from starting in the first place.

You may feel football fans are dealt with too harshly in the justice system, but my viewpoint is, don't get yourself arrested in the first place. And if you' feel you're wrongly arrested, there's just no way you will be convicted for an offence you haven't committed, because they'll be no evidence to prove you DID 'throw that bottle/push that steward', you'd like to think.

Therefore your agreeing with the article then and that its misplaced generalisation ... Your just ok with it

 

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View Johnny D's Profile Johnny D Flag Beckenham 26 Feb 14 12.39pm Send a Private Message to Johnny D Add Johnny D as a friend

Quote EsussexEagle at 26 Feb 2014 11.33am

Quote Johnny D at 26 Feb 2014 10.52am

Quote soulboy at 26 Feb 2014 10.37am

Quote Johnny D at 26 Feb 2014 9.17am

Quote PsychoPaul at 26 Feb 2014 12.33am

Quote Johnny D at 25 Feb 2014 11.42pm

Or just don't act like a t*** in the first place and you'll never be arrested and never end up in the legal system to begin with!

Your subject title is hypocritical as well, isn't it? Talking about 'all being regarded as criminals' and then calling 'all coppers b******s'.

Just a bit sad that is.

You obviously missed the point, you can act perfectly legally and still get grief or arrested. There are some fair cops but most are merely their to follow the orders of the corrupt state. Try using your legal right to protest, chances are the moment it becomes effective you would be held in a kettle against your will for hours, photographed, deemed a terrorist or a subversive threat etc. etc.
Sure most footie supporters are unlikely to get nicked for attending a match but if you read the examples in the article it's not against the realms of possibility is it.
I've seen the police do a lot worse things over the years outside football. The article merely points out it's becoming a trend, so just pays to be prepared.


No I haven't missed the point. I'm sure there's plenty of other examples out there the journalist could have used too. My point is that if you behave yourself and don't break the law, you won't have any issues in the first place. Yes you'll probably get searched at some point and most of us are often inconvenienced caught up in police escorts around back streets or kept behind after games, many times. 99% of those people are never looking for trouble, but there's always a few idiots who are or who will join in if it comes to them. That's the nature of being a football fan unfortunately, you don't get all that at rugby or cricket. They may seem like strong measures but I personally don't have a problem with it, I can see why it's necessary and the only people to blame for it all are that extreme minority who use football as an excuse to act stupid/be violent.

It just surprises me how much people moan about it all the time, like it's not done for a reason. Be in the wrong place at the wrong time or try and resist in Europe and there's fair chance the Police will just beat the crap out of you. Dozens have been shot dead during protesting/disorder in the Ukraine recently, and I bet they weren't waiting to see if they were one of the ones who threw a brick first. I'm just saying it's not ideal but the way football is policed in the UK is as fair as it can be, with the priority having to be just preventing the trouble from starting in the first place.

You may feel football fans are dealt with too harshly in the justice system, but my viewpoint is, don't get yourself arrested in the first place. And if you' feel you're wrongly arrested, there's just no way you will be convicted for an offence you haven't committed, because they'll be no evidence to prove you DID 'throw that bottle/push that steward', you'd like to think.

As someone who has worked in and around the CJS system for a good many years, I have to say that you are wrong in your (naive) assumption that a wrongful arrest leads to acquittal at court. Don't confuse evidence with the truth as there are many ways of obtaining and producing evidence before a court, not all of them lawful.

As someone who has ALSO worked in and around the CJS for a good many years, I also have to say that I am not NOT wrong in my NOT naive, but informed OPINION (not 'assumption') that somebody wrongly arrested will get acquitted at court. Of course there are exceptions, but without CCTV, forensic evidence, independent witnesses etc it's highly unlikely the CPS will even decide to charge that person with the offence in the first place, let alone convince a jury that you committed the crime at court. Perhaps we can agree to disagree on that one.

''The case went to court, but was thrown out. It was thrown out because Culvin, an experienced hand at dealing with these situations, had asked a fellow fan to film his encounter with the police on his phone before he approached them. And that film showed that Culvin categorically did not assault the police officer. Solicitor Melanie Cooke, who represented Culvin, says: “Once the CPS had reviewed the case in light of the defence representations and after viewing a DVD of the camera phone footage, the criminal proceedings were immediately discontinued”.

Quite clearly reading the paragraph above it was only because he had the foresight to get a friend to video that he wasn't prosecuted. The jury would have convicted purely on the Officers statement that they had been assaulted because a lot of people have the same view as yourself, you must have done something to be arrested.
There are a lot of Police Officers out there who do a really good job, but, as in many forms of office, there are always one or two who c@ck up the image for everyone else.

..............

Well I've been on a jury twice and the majority of those I was with were actually more inclined to believe the accused rather than the officer, with no actual basis for it. I obviously can't be specific. They almost felt responsible for finding them guilty and 'sending them to prison', even though the facts proved they'd clearly committed an extremely violent crime. So I'd have to disagree that 'the officer would necessarily be believed over anyone else', especially with things like mistakes by police and corruption always reaching the front pages because that's what sells and people are more interested to hear about. Rightly so in some cases, don't get me wrong.

Also, I'm not saying someone 'must have done something wrong to get arrested' at all, quite the opposite, that people are arrested only on suspicion of an offence and that if they haven't actually done anything wrong or it just can't be proved they did, then that will prevail.

 

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