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Stirlingsays 07 Jun 15 6.42pm
Quote TUX at 07 Jun 2015 6.37pm I don't hate anyone or anything. The fact that someone pays more than others means diddly. Often is the case that someone is paying for 'favours'. But as you seem to be so clued up I guess you know that already? And no, i'm not the UN. Are you Blatter? I just think that 'dislike' of a country for particular actions needs to be tempered with seeing the whole picture. Often a dislike is for a government type rather than a whole nation attitude and needs to reflect that. Yes, the US can be an arse, as has all nations. Yes, the US also does an enormous amount of 'good' in the world.....To be frank....The kickbacks don't amount to a hill of beans in comparison. There are also many many examples where there are no kickbacks at all. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

07 Jun 15 6.42pm

Quote TUX at 07 Jun 2015 6.37pm

I don't hate anyone or anything.
The fact that someone pays more than others means diddly.
Often is the case that someone is paying for 'favours'.
But as you seem to be so clued up I guess you know that already?

And no, i'm not the UN. Are you Blatter?

I just think that 'dislike' of a country for particular actions needs to be tempered with seeing the whole picture. Often a dislike is for a government type rather than a whole nation attitude and needs to reflect that.

Yes, the US can be an arse, as has all nations.

Yes, the US also does an enormous amount of 'good' in the world.....To be frank....The kickbacks don't amount to a hill of beans in comparison.

There are also many many examples where there are no kickbacks at all.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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derben 07 Jun 15 6.44pm
Quote TUX at 07 Jun 2015 6.29pm Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 6.21pm Quote TUX at 07 Jun 2015 6.15pm Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 6.06pm Quote TUX at 07 Jun 2015 6.02pm Quote Jamesrichards8 at 06 Jun 2015 12.34am Quote TUX at 05 Jun 2015 11.20pm Quote Jamesrichards8 at 05 Jun 2015 10.45pm Quote TUX at 05 Jun 2015 10.16pm Quote derben at 05 Jun 2015 10.11pm Quote nickgusset at 05 Jun 2015 10.04pm Quote derben at 05 Jun 2015 10.01pm Quote nickgusset at 05 Jun 2015 9.55pm [Link] Great article from Seamus Milne. Apparently the CIA want(ed) a sunni lead principality bridging Iraq and Syria! Yeah, thought it would all be the fault of the great Satan, America, along with all the ills of the world. What a wicked empire they are, the world has never seen such oppression. What a shame that nice USSR didn't persevere with the Socialist Utopia, think how happy we would all be had they prevailed. Oh my mistake, nothing to do with the US at all. Christ on a bike! You just hate America and will criticise it whatever they do. For all their faults, it there had been a comparable superpower in the last 100 years God help us. Speculation. Personally I feel there would have been far less wars. Also speculation. Well that's absolute bulls*. The USA has made many errors, but don't tell me that it isn't the safest country to allow superpower status. Who would you prefer? Russia? China? Nazi germany? You're full of se if you think any of those reigns of soft power would promote more peace than the United States has overseen. Edited by Jamesrichards8 (05 Jun 2015 10.45pm) So the others would've individually manipulated MORE wars than the US has, post WW2? Really? I'd be more full of s had it not been for you and Derben beating me to the trough. You're a fool. Those countries may not have started wars with Vietnam or Korea, but don't tell me that the world would be more peaceful overall if China were the leading superpower. In the last 70 years, none of the world's most populous or most economically powerful countries have been at war with one another. I would call that a success. We're all fools whether you like it or not. But thankfully i'm further down the pecking order than you. The US has caused more global conflict than any other since the end of WW2 but for some reason you love the country. I'm happy to be labelled a fool tbh. It beats being a fkn blinkered moron. Here is list of wars 1945-1989. [Link] How many did the USA cause? I mentioned 'Global Conflict'. Regardless of our stances, you're better than that post. It was the only list I could find. I could spend hours trying to find list of post 1989 wars but I'm bug**ed if I am going to do that. Fact remains that the USA is not responsible for most wars and they are not imperialists. I'm sorry that you felt the need to google. You still continually mention 'wars' when I mentioned 'conflict'. Jeezz, 'conflict'. That covers such a wide area, Palace v Brigton - bloody yanks fault.
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derben

07 Jun 15 6.44pm

Quote TUX at 07 Jun 2015 6.29pm

Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 6.21pm

Quote TUX at 07 Jun 2015 6.15pm

Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 6.06pm

Quote TUX at 07 Jun 2015 6.02pm

Quote Jamesrichards8 at 06 Jun 2015 12.34am

Quote TUX at 05 Jun 2015 11.20pm

Quote Jamesrichards8 at 05 Jun 2015 10.45pm

Quote TUX at 05 Jun 2015 10.16pm

Quote derben at 05 Jun 2015 10.11pm

Quote nickgusset at 05 Jun 2015 10.04pm

Quote derben at 05 Jun 2015 10.01pm

Quote nickgusset at 05 Jun 2015 9.55pm

[Link]

Great article from Seamus Milne. Apparently the CIA want(ed) a sunni lead principality bridging Iraq and Syria!

Yeah, thought it would all be the fault of the great Satan, America, along with all the ills of the world. What a wicked empire they are, the world has never seen such oppression. What a shame that nice USSR didn't persevere with the Socialist Utopia, think how happy we would all be had they prevailed.

Oh my mistake, nothing to do with the US at all.
Christ on a bike!

You just hate America and will criticise it whatever they do. For all their faults, it there had been a comparable superpower in the last 100 years God help us.

Speculation.
Personally I feel there would have been far less wars.
Also speculation.

Well that's absolute bulls***. The USA has made many errors, but don't tell me that it isn't the safest country to allow superpower status. Who would you prefer? Russia? China? Nazi germany? You're full of s***e if you think any of those reigns of soft power would promote more peace than the United States has overseen.

Edited by Jamesrichards8 (05 Jun 2015 10.45pm)

So the others would've individually manipulated MORE wars than the US has, post WW2? Really?
I'd be more full of s*** had it not been for you and Derben beating me to the trough.

You're a fool. Those countries may not have started wars with Vietnam or Korea, but don't tell me that the world would be more peaceful overall if China were the leading superpower. In the last 70 years, none of the world's most populous or most economically powerful countries have been at war with one another. I would call that a success.

We're all fools whether you like it or not.
But thankfully i'm further down the pecking order than you.

The US has caused more global conflict than any other since the end of WW2 but for some reason you love the country.

I'm happy to be labelled a fool tbh. It beats being a fkn blinkered moron.

Here is list of wars 1945-1989.

[Link]

How many did the USA cause?

I mentioned 'Global Conflict'.
Regardless of our stances, you're better than that post.

It was the only list I could find. I could spend hours trying to find list of post 1989 wars but I'm bug****ed if I am going to do that. Fact remains that the USA is not responsible for most wars and they are not imperialists.

I'm sorry that you felt the need to google.
You still continually mention 'wars' when I mentioned 'conflict'.

Jeezz, 'conflict'. That covers such a wide area, Palace v Brigton - bloody yanks fault.

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TUX redhill 07 Jun 15 6.51pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 07 Jun 2015 6.42pm Quote TUX at 07 Jun 2015 6.37pm I don't hate anyone or anything. The fact that someone pays more than others means diddly. Often is the case that someone is paying for 'favours'. But as you seem to be so clued up I guess you know that already? And no, i'm not the UN. Are you Blatter? I just think that 'dislike' of a country for particular actions needs to be tempered with seeing the whole picture. Often a dislike is for a government type rather than a whole nation attitude and needs to reflect that. Yes, the US can be an arse, as has all nations. Yes, the US also does an enormous amount of 'good' in the world.....To be frank....The kickbacks don't amount to a hill of beans in comparison. There are also many many examples where there are no kickbacks at all. Let's not make out the US to be more 'friendly' than it really is. That's all i'm saying.
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TUX

redhill 07 Jun 15 6.51pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 07 Jun 2015 6.42pm

Quote TUX at 07 Jun 2015 6.37pm

And no, i'm not the UN. Are you Blatter?

Yes, the US can be an arse, as has all nations.

Yes, the US also does an enormous amount of 'good' in the world.....To be frank....The kickbacks don't amount to a hill of beans in comparison.

There are also many many examples where there are no kickbacks at all.

Let's not make out the US to be more 'friendly' than it really is.
That's all i'm saying.

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Kermit8 Hevon 07 Jun 15 7.17pm
It's no coincidence that the US has been in some sort of conflict ever since WW2. There are other forces at work aswell as their Army, navy and air crews. It suits certain interests. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 07 Jun 15 7.17pm

It's no coincidence that the US has been in some sort of conflict ever since WW2. There are other forces at work aswell as their Army, navy and air crews.

It suits certain interests.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Jun 15 8.27pm
Quote Kermit8 at 07 Jun 2015 7.17pm It's no coincidence that the US has been in some sort of conflict ever since WW2. There are other forces at work aswell as their Army, navy and air crews. It suits certain interests. Ours have been surprisingly prolific as well. Sometimes its warrented, other times its self interest and mostly its economical. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 07 Jun 15 8.27pm

Quote Kermit8 at 07 Jun 2015 7.17pm

It's no coincidence that the US has been in some sort of conflict ever since WW2. There are other forces at work aswell as their Army, navy and air crews.

It suits certain interests.

Ours have been surprisingly prolific as well. Sometimes its warrented, other times its self interest and mostly its economical.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Stirlingsays 07 Jun 15 8.57pm
Quote TUX at 07 Jun 2015 6.51pm Let's not make out the US to be more 'friendly' than it really is. That's all i'm saying. Well, actually I'm saying that you're making the US out to be less 'friendly' than it actually is. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

07 Jun 15 8.57pm

Quote TUX at 07 Jun 2015 6.51pm

Let's not make out the US to be more 'friendly' than it really is.
That's all i'm saying.

Well, actually I'm saying that you're making the US out to be less 'friendly' than it actually is.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 07 Jun 15 9.01pm
Quote Kermit8 at 07 Jun 2015 7.17pm It's no coincidence that the US has been in some sort of conflict ever since WW2. There are other forces at work aswell as their Army, navy and air crews. It suits certain interests. This is the same for all superpowers throughout history. There needs to be a sense of perspective. Be thankful this superpower is democratic......If it is overidden and a new one takes over...Which may be China....Let's just say your objections...If you're still around maybe somewhat different. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

07 Jun 15 9.01pm

Quote Kermit8 at 07 Jun 2015 7.17pm

It's no coincidence that the US has been in some sort of conflict ever since WW2. There are other forces at work aswell as their Army, navy and air crews.

It suits certain interests.

This is the same for all superpowers throughout history. There needs to be a sense of perspective.

Be thankful this superpower is democratic......If it is overidden and a new one takes over...Which may be China....Let's just say your objections...If you're still around maybe somewhat different.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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derben 07 Jun 15 10.12pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 07 Jun 2015 9.01pm Quote Kermit8 at 07 Jun 2015 7.17pm It's no coincidence that the US has been in some sort of conflict ever since WW2. There are other forces at work aswell as their Army, navy and air crews. It suits certain interests. This is the same for all superpowers throughout history. There needs to be a sense of perspective. Be thankful this superpower is democratic......If it is overidden and a new one takes over...Which may be China....Let's just say your objections...If you're still around maybe somewhat different. Spot on Stirling. I certainly don't think the USA is perfect and think they made huge mistakes in Vietnam and Iraq. It is doubtful that we would have defeated Germany without them and if states like Russia or China had similar overwhelming power post WW2 we would be all living in God knows what sort of totalitarian nightmare. They are democratic and they try to bolster democratic and liberal values.
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derben

07 Jun 15 10.12pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 07 Jun 2015 9.01pm

Quote Kermit8 at 07 Jun 2015 7.17pm

It's no coincidence that the US has been in some sort of conflict ever since WW2. There are other forces at work aswell as their Army, navy and air crews.

It suits certain interests.

This is the same for all superpowers throughout history. There needs to be a sense of perspective.

Be thankful this superpower is democratic......If it is overidden and a new one takes over...Which may be China....Let's just say your objections...If you're still around maybe somewhat different.

Spot on Stirling. I certainly don't think the USA is perfect and think they made huge mistakes in Vietnam and Iraq. It is doubtful that we would have defeated Germany without them and if states like Russia or China had similar overwhelming power post WW2 we would be all living in God knows what sort of totalitarian nightmare. They are democratic and they try to bolster democratic and liberal values.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 08 Jun 15 7.45am
Problem is, the US acts out of self interest and calls it promoting democracy, including trying to destabilise countries that elect leaders democratically that they don't like. Its easy to talk about mistakes like Iraq and Vietnam, but that misses out their history in South America, and of course their inactions (but again you can point to most powerful western and middle eastern countries and their self interested foreign policy). I don't really think they're that much worse than any other country, just without rival - because its not really about ethics and politics, but economics and markets. Just because China or the Soviet union were worse, doesn't mean the US actions are somehow justified. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 08 Jun 15 7.45am

Problem is, the US acts out of self interest and calls it promoting democracy, including trying to destabilise countries that elect leaders democratically that they don't like.

Its easy to talk about mistakes like Iraq and Vietnam, but that misses out their history in South America, and of course their inactions (but again you can point to most powerful western and middle eastern countries and their self interested foreign policy).

I don't really think they're that much worse than any other country, just without rival - because its not really about ethics and politics, but economics and markets.

Just because China or the Soviet union were worse, doesn't mean the US actions are somehow justified.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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ghosteagle 08 Jun 15 5.04pm
Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 10.12pm Quote Stirlingsays at 07 Jun 2015 9.01pm Quote Kermit8 at 07 Jun 2015 7.17pm It's no coincidence that the US has been in some sort of conflict ever since WW2. There are other forces at work aswell as their Army, navy and air crews. It suits certain interests. This is the same for all superpowers throughout history. There needs to be a sense of perspective. Be thankful this superpower is democratic......If it is overidden and a new one takes over...Which may be China....Let's just say your objections...If you're still around maybe somewhat different. Spot on Stirling. I certainly don't think the USA is perfect and think they made huge mistakes in Vietnam and Iraq. It is doubtful that we would have defeated Germany without them and if states like Russia or China had similar overwhelming power post WW2 we would be all living in God knows what sort of totalitarian nightmare. They are democratic and they try to bolster democratic and liberal values. Dubious. While the War may have lasted longer and the Red Army would have swept through western Europe american assistance was not essential to a German defeat.
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ghosteagle

08 Jun 15 5.04pm

Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 10.12pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 07 Jun 2015 9.01pm

Quote Kermit8 at 07 Jun 2015 7.17pm

It's no coincidence that the US has been in some sort of conflict ever since WW2. There are other forces at work aswell as their Army, navy and air crews.

It suits certain interests.

This is the same for all superpowers throughout history. There needs to be a sense of perspective.

Be thankful this superpower is democratic......If it is overidden and a new one takes over...Which may be China....Let's just say your objections...If you're still around maybe somewhat different.

Spot on Stirling. I certainly don't think the USA is perfect and think they made huge mistakes in Vietnam and Iraq. It is doubtful that we would have defeated Germany without them and if states like Russia or China had similar overwhelming power post WW2 we would be all living in God knows what sort of totalitarian nightmare. They are democratic and they try to bolster democratic and liberal values.

Dubious. While the War may have lasted longer and the Red Army would have swept through western Europe american assistance was not essential to a German defeat.

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derben 08 Jun 15 5.13pm
Quote ghosteagle at 08 Jun 2015 5.04pm Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 10.12pm Quote Stirlingsays at 07 Jun 2015 9.01pm Quote Kermit8 at 07 Jun 2015 7.17pm It's no coincidence that the US has been in some sort of conflict ever since WW2. There are other forces at work aswell as their Army, navy and air crews. It suits certain interests. This is the same for all superpowers throughout history. There needs to be a sense of perspective. Be thankful this superpower is democratic......If it is overidden and a new one takes over...Which may be China....Let's just say your objections...If you're still around maybe somewhat different. Spot on Stirling. I certainly don't think the USA is perfect and think they made huge mistakes in Vietnam and Iraq. It is doubtful that we would have defeated Germany without them and if states like Russia or China had similar overwhelming power post WW2 we would be all living in God knows what sort of totalitarian nightmare. They are democratic and they try to bolster democratic and liberal values. Dubious. While the War may have lasted longer and the Red Army would have swept through western Europe american assistance was not essential to a German defeat. Churchill didn't think so: “To have the United States at our side was to me the greatest joy. Now at this very moment I knew the United States was in the war, up to the neck and in to the death. So we had won after all!…Hitler’s fate was sealed. Mussolini’s fate was sealed. As for the Japanese, they would be ground to powder.”
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derben

08 Jun 15 5.13pm

Quote ghosteagle at 08 Jun 2015 5.04pm

Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 10.12pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 07 Jun 2015 9.01pm

Quote Kermit8 at 07 Jun 2015 7.17pm

It's no coincidence that the US has been in some sort of conflict ever since WW2. There are other forces at work aswell as their Army, navy and air crews.

It suits certain interests.

This is the same for all superpowers throughout history. There needs to be a sense of perspective.

Be thankful this superpower is democratic......If it is overidden and a new one takes over...Which may be China....Let's just say your objections...If you're still around maybe somewhat different.

Dubious. While the War may have lasted longer and the Red Army would have swept through western Europe american assistance was not essential to a German defeat.

Churchill didn't think so:
“To have the United States at our side was to me the greatest joy. Now at this very moment I knew the United States was in the war, up to the neck and in to the death. So we had won after all!…Hitler’s fate was sealed. Mussolini’s fate was sealed. As for the Japanese, they would be ground to powder.”

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ghosteagle 08 Jun 15 5.24pm
Quote derben at 08 Jun 2015 5.13pm Quote ghosteagle at 08 Jun 2015 5.04pm Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 10.12pm Quote Stirlingsays at 07 Jun 2015 9.01pm Quote Kermit8 at 07 Jun 2015 7.17pm It's no coincidence that the US has been in some sort of conflict ever since WW2. There are other forces at work aswell as their Army, navy and air crews. It suits certain interests. This is the same for all superpowers throughout history. There needs to be a sense of perspective. Be thankful this superpower is democratic......If it is overidden and a new one takes over...Which may be China....Let's just say your objections...If you're still around maybe somewhat different. Spot on Stirling. I certainly don't think the USA is perfect and think they made huge mistakes in Vietnam and Iraq. It is doubtful that we would have defeated Germany without them and if states like Russia or China had similar overwhelming power post WW2 we would be all living in God knows what sort of totalitarian nightmare. They are democratic and they try to bolster democratic and liberal values. Dubious. While the War may have lasted longer and the Red Army would have swept through western Europe american assistance was not essential to a German defeat. Churchill didn't think so: “To have the United States at our side was to me the greatest joy. Now at this very moment I knew the United States was in the war, up to the neck and in to the death. So we had won after all!…Hitler’s fate was sealed. Mussolini’s fate was sealed. As for the Japanese, they would be ground to powder.” ? Yes, Churchill was overjoyed with American intervention as it guaranteed the Brits a seat at the victors table. Still, their intervention was not essential to a German defeat.
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ghosteagle

08 Jun 15 5.24pm

Quote derben at 08 Jun 2015 5.13pm

Quote ghosteagle at 08 Jun 2015 5.04pm

Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 10.12pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 07 Jun 2015 9.01pm

Quote Kermit8 at 07 Jun 2015 7.17pm

It's no coincidence that the US has been in some sort of conflict ever since WW2. There are other forces at work aswell as their Army, navy and air crews.

It suits certain interests.

This is the same for all superpowers throughout history. There needs to be a sense of perspective.

Be thankful this superpower is democratic......If it is overidden and a new one takes over...Which may be China....Let's just say your objections...If you're still around maybe somewhat different.

Dubious. While the War may have lasted longer and the Red Army would have swept through western Europe american assistance was not essential to a German defeat.

? Yes, Churchill was overjoyed with American intervention as it guaranteed the Brits a seat at the victors table. Still, their intervention was not essential to a German defeat.

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