Tube strike
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 ghosteagle  10 Feb 15 4.58pm |
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Quote Mapletree at 10 Feb 2015 4.46pm
Here's an objective view then. The underground system is completely emasculated by a mixture of poor management and extraordinarily dated Union philosophy. I object strongly to the no compulsory redundancies concept resulting in people sitting in their gardens for years. The Union activists would fight their own shadows. They have a ridiculously cushy life and won't let it go easily. Every chance they get to milk the situation they do so with no feeling of guilt. And they like to make sure management know how powerful they are by calling action on a regular basis, using spurious logics in their - perfectly rational and perfectly selfish - power games. We all suffer from this monopoly. If this were a market economy instead of a closed shop it would look so very different. Feeling of guilt? For what pray tell?
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| npn Crowborough 10 Feb 15 5.21pm |
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At least it finally puts to bed the old "we are striking for the safety of passengers" b0llocks! Driverless trains? Can't have that - think how unsafe the poor innocent passengers will be (without the bloke at the front to push a lever). Sh*t-faced driver? Well that's just fine and dandy if he's a union member.
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| Mapletree Croydon 10 Feb 15 5.36pm |
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Quote ghosteagle at 10 Feb 2015 4.58pm
Quote Mapletree at 10 Feb 2015 4.46pm
Here's an objective view then. The underground system is completely emasculated by a mixture of poor management and extraordinarily dated Union philosophy. I object strongly to the no compulsory redundancies concept resulting in people sitting in their gardens for years. The Union activists would fight their own shadows. They have a ridiculously cushy life and won't let it go easily. Every chance they get to milk the situation they do so with no feeling of guilt. And they like to make sure management know how powerful they are by calling action on a regular basis, using spurious logics in their - perfectly rational and perfectly selfish - power games. We all suffer from this monopoly. If this were a market economy instead of a closed shop it would look so very different. Feeling of guilt? For what pray tell?
Clearly management didn't do anything wrong in this case, I have read through the process and it's reasonable and I have no doubt led to the correct outcome. So, in the end, it has to be the Union that is being unreasonable and - for me - that is all about political power play. And millions suffer in this nasty little game. I assume you are an RMT official.
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| TUX redhill 10 Feb 15 7.26pm |
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Quote Mapletree at 10 Feb 2015 4.46pm
Here's an objective view then. The underground system is completely emasculated by a mixture of poor management and extraordinarily dated Union philosophy. I object strongly to the no compulsory redundancies concept resulting in people sitting in their gardens for years. The Union activists would fight their own shadows. They have a ridiculously cushy life and won't let it go easily. Every chance they get to milk the situation they do so with no feeling of guilt. And they like to make sure management know how powerful they are by calling action on a regular basis, using spurious logics in their - perfectly rational and perfectly selfish - power games. We all suffer from this monopoly. If this were a market economy instead of a closed shop it would look so very different. ''Suffer''? If that's your description of being 'inconvenienced but with plenty of notice' then my mind boggles. Be careful what you wish for.
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| Pawson Palace Croydon 10 Feb 15 7.52pm |
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lol anyone notice the RMT guy's name is Cash...surely a stitch up? IMO striking is BS in this instance, you can't even take a minute risk having a pissed person driving a train until more testing is complete so this is completely over the top!
Pride of South London |
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| TUX redhill 10 Feb 15 8.02pm |
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Quote Mapletree at 10 Feb 2015 5.36pm
Quote ghosteagle at 10 Feb 2015 4.58pm
Quote Mapletree at 10 Feb 2015 4.46pm
Here's an objective view then. The underground system is completely emasculated by a mixture of poor management and extraordinarily dated Union philosophy. I object strongly to the no compulsory redundancies concept resulting in people sitting in their gardens for years. The Union activists would fight their own shadows. They have a ridiculously cushy life and won't let it go easily. Every chance they get to milk the situation they do so with no feeling of guilt. And they like to make sure management know how powerful they are by calling action on a regular basis, using spurious logics in their - perfectly rational and perfectly selfish - power games. We all suffer from this monopoly. If this were a market economy instead of a closed shop it would look so very different. Feeling of guilt? For what pray tell?
Clearly management didn't do anything wrong in this case, I have read through the process and it's reasonable and I have no doubt led to the correct outcome. So, in the end, it has to be the Union that is being unreasonable and - for me - that is all about political power play. And millions suffer in this nasty little game. I assume you are an RMT official. If you put the same effort into those who 'inconvenience YOU/cost YOU' 365 DAYS OF THE YEAR then your argument would stand. But you don't because that would be hard work wouldn't it? Far easier to pick on a few workers than take on the Govt's policies.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 10 Feb 15 8.04pm |
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Told by a friend of an rmt member that the story is because of his health the breath test gave a false reading. And rather than test his urine as well for alcohol this was not done. Lu then destroyed the test results. The reason for the strike is procedures put in place by London underground was not followed. Not sure how true this is. But if London underground havent followed procedures, they've left themselves open... Edited by nickgusset (10 Feb 2015 8.06pm)
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| Mapletree Croydon 10 Feb 15 8.21pm |
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Quote nickgusset at 10 Feb 2015 8.04pm
Told by a friend of an rmt member that the story is because of his health the breath test gave a false reading. And rather than test his urine as well for alcohol this was not done. Lu then destroyed the test results. The reason for the strike is procedures put in place by London underground was not followed. Not sure how true this is. But if London underground havent followed procedures, they've left themselves open... Edited by nickgusset (10 Feb 2015 8.06pm)
So why should the Union members set themselves up as judge and jury when there is a serviceable process available to this employee? And no TUX, it won't inconvenience me in the slightest. I don't catch the underground. But it will inconvenience over a million people, some of whom aren't in a position to easily cope.
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| susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 10 Feb 15 8.26pm |
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'False result' RMT Regional Organiser John Leach said the union was asking for further testing to be carried out when a breathalyzer gave a positive result. "The current system is unfair because it doesn't offer safeguards to those with disabilities or who are on certain diets," he said. Does that mean "alcoholic poisoning" condition?
Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky. |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 10 Feb 15 8.50pm |
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Quote Mapletree at 10 Feb 2015 8.21pm
Quote nickgusset at 10 Feb 2015 8.04pm
Told by a friend of an rmt member that the story is because of his health the breath test gave a false reading. And rather than test his urine as well for alcohol this was not done. Lu then destroyed the test results. The reason for the strike is procedures put in place by London underground was not followed. Not sure how true this is. But if London underground havent followed procedures, they've left themselves open... Edited by nickgusset (10 Feb 2015 8.06pm)
So why should the Union members set themselves up as judge and jury when there is a serviceable process available to this employee? And no TUX, it won't inconvenience me in the slightest. I don't catch the underground. But it will inconvenience over a million people, some of whom aren't in a position to easily cope.
1 - We believe Alex is innocent Alex has diabetes which we believe has given a false positive in a random breath test he took when booking on for duty. The RMT has seen evidence that this is possible. If the police breath test you and you fail, they take you back to the police station and you are tested again using much more robust equipment. At LUL once you fail a breath test that is it - sacked after 29 years unblemished service. Alex could have had a urine sample privately tested to demonstrate his innocence, however this sample was destroyed before he had a chance. 2 - Peter Hendy has already apologised for giving out false information and it keeps coming London Transport commissioner Peter Hendy stated on an interview with LBC that Alex McGuigan had been drinking on duty. Not long after newspaper front pages were reporting that the RMT was striking for somebody who was drinking whilst at work. However this was totally untrue. Peter Hendy wrote to the RMT to apologise for this error - but by that point the damage was largely done. Now London Underground bosses are saying that Alex ‘admitted drinking before booking on for duty’ but what they omit is that he drank alcohol the night before - and an amount well within London Underground guidelines. Imagine this: You go for dinner with your partner and have a glass of wine and are home by 11pm. the next day you book on for a 10am duty, are drug tested and a false reading is returned. London Underground sack you and claim on national radio that you were drinking on duty. They then claim that you admitted ‘drinking before you booked on.’ How would you feel? Bosses are doing it now and if we don’t fight back they will do it again. 3 - The RMT have told LUL that they would call off the industrial action if bosses agreed to abide by an employment tribunal decision - but they refused This issue is bigger than the Alex McGuigan dispute - it is about whether when London Underground sacks you they will listen if an independent Employment Tribunal says that the decision was wrong and the person should be reinstated. If London Underground are so confident that the sacking of Alex Mcguigan was fair - and that their drugs and alcohol testing process is robust - why would they refuse to abide by an employment tribunal decision? They claim that our industrial action is wrong, but refuse to be led by an independent employment tribunal. this has happened in the past. Employment tribunals have said lUl should reinstate somebody and they have refused to do it. Only RMT industrial action - or the threat of it - ensures drivers jobs are safe from unfair dismissal.
Edited by nickgusset (10 Feb 2015 8.52pm)
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| TUX redhill 10 Feb 15 8.55pm |
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Quote Mapletree at 10 Feb 2015 8.21pm
Quote nickgusset at 10 Feb 2015 8.04pm
Told by a friend of an rmt member that the story is because of his health the breath test gave a false reading. And rather than test his urine as well for alcohol this was not done. Lu then destroyed the test results. The reason for the strike is procedures put in place by London underground was not followed. Not sure how true this is. But if London underground havent followed procedures, they've left themselves open... Edited by nickgusset (10 Feb 2015 8.06pm)
So why should the Union members set themselves up as judge and jury when there is a serviceable process available to this employee? And no TUX, it won't inconvenience me in the slightest. I don't catch the underground. But it will inconvenience over a million people, some of whom aren't in a position to easily cope.[/quote] So they can make their way 'underground' but can't make their way 'over ground'? I never saw that coming tbh.
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| Mapletree Croydon 10 Feb 15 8.58pm |
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Interesting post Nick But I don't understand the point. LU would have no choice but to accept an Employment Tribunal decision. Is this in fact wrong and what the RMT was asking for was binding arbitration? I still don't understand why, if the LU management really did mess up, the individual doesn't go to Tribunal. I also don't understand why LU's own appeals procedure did not reverse the decision if it was unfair. Who knows, both sides have always been pretty unreasonable.
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