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F#ck off Nigel...

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View Stuk's Profile Stuk Flag Top half 05 May 15 5.57pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 05 May 2015 5.27pm

How much would we be charged to have one of those. Suddenly driving licences need updating every few years. How much is that?


Does beg the hypothetical moral question though.

Do you not treat someone who has been seriously injured if they don't have a card and are on holiday?


What if whatever caused the injury isn't their fault?


Initial one free, as with the NI card and then a nominal fee to update every 10 years. Can link it to driving licences or passports to make updates simpler.

It costs £20 to do a driving licence and if you don't you can't drive. £20 for a 10 year NHS pass sounds alright, maybe it could even be refunded via NI contributions being reduced for a month/year.

If they're seriously injured you treat them and bill them, as would happen to us if we had an accident in France, Spain etc and had no EHIC card.

Fault doesn't come into it. If you are on holiday, have travel insurance. If you're an EU resident have an EHIC. If you aren't eligible get health insurance or pay in to a private plan.

 


Optimistic as ever

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legaleagle Flag 05 May 15 10.41pm

Quote dannyh at 05 May 2015 5.00pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 05 May 2015 4.10pm


Australia also isn't in a position where its actively pursuing policy that would essentially mean a large part of the work force would be 'ineligible to work in the UK' which UKIP is pushing.

Not it is not, that is just made up bollicks, what UKIP ARE saying is that they want british jobs for British people, no matter what ethinicity you are. And for your information the Ozzies are far tougher on immagration than we are.



Australia has a "common market" arrangement with New Zealand.There is free movement of labour within it.

Australia has a points based system for people wanting to work there who are not from New Zealand.We already have a points based system for non EU migrants.Not sure its tougher to get points here than there.Both are tough.

Australia does not discriminate against existing or new migrants,once legally in the country,in terms of who can get a job.Its whomever is best qualified for the job.

UKIP propose (so far as I can tell given their twists and turns on the specifics of immigration policy)that non British nationals,though legally here, will be second in line for any jobs going.That's very different to the situation in Australia.

Based on my rough and ready review of 2013 figures (not sure 2014 available for comparables),number of foreign migrants to Australia that year equated to about 6.6% of overall population of the country.The UK figure was about 7%.Neither taking into account returning nationals or departing migrants/nationals.

Incidentally,has Mr Farage sacked his "PA",who happens to be his wife and is from a non-UK EU country,to set an example? Though it would mean the allowances he claims from the EU to pay her salary wouldn't flow within the family any more...

Edited by legaleagle (05 May 2015 11.17pm)

 

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View johnno42000's Profile johnno42000 Flag 05 May 15 11.22pm Send a Private Message to johnno42000 Add johnno42000 as a friend

Nigel Farage the Roderick Spode of the 21st Century.

 


'Lies to the masses as are like fly's to mollasses...they want more and more and more'

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View crystal balls's Profile crystal balls Flag The Garden of Earthly Delights 06 May 15 8.16am Send a Private Message to crystal balls Add crystal balls as a friend

Quote johnno42000 at 05 May 2015 11.22pm

Nigel Farage the Roderick Spode of the 21st Century.


But not quite as unintentionally funny!

 


I used to be immortal

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View johnno42000's Profile johnno42000 Flag 06 May 15 12.19pm Send a Private Message to johnno42000 Add johnno42000 as a friend

Quote crystal balls at 06 May 2015 8.16am

Quote johnno42000 at 05 May 2015 11.22pm

Nigel Farage the Roderick Spode of the 21st Century.


But not quite as unintentionally funny!

Although I could see him in black shorts

 


'Lies to the masses as are like fly's to mollasses...they want more and more and more'

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View The Sash's Profile The Sash Flag Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 06 May 15 12.36pm Send a Private Message to The Sash Add The Sash as a friend

Quote npn at 05 May 2015 1.46pm

I'm not voting UKIP.

I am amazed, however, that a lot of people I know (particularly left-leaning ones, to be fair) seem totally disgusted by them. I had to step into one of those pointless Facebook battles when someone posted that UKIP and their supporters are a disgrace. It seems everyone is in favour of free speech, provided the person speaking agrees with their views.

If you don't like UKIP, don't vote for them. Pretty simple. Shouting them down and referring to them as a disgrace, and even trying to associate them with the BNP because of some spurious, vague, and not even verified, assertion that Griffin will be voting for them (he's a far-right person, natural he's going to vote for the furthest right candidate, surely? Just like Mao would probably vote TUSC because they are the closest aligned to his own ideal, not because those ideals are the same) is surely a very poor effort at debate.

Exactamundo

Always amazes me that people who shout down those they oppose and accuse them of intolerance (and in this case threaten as result) seem to have a massive 'whoosh' at the disclosure of their own intolerance of people who hold a political view counter to their own.

Its not even debate - its simply Wolfie Smith Polytechnic level 'right on-ness' white noise..

Edited by The Sash (06 May 2015 12.38pm)

 


As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 06 May 15 12.45pm

Quote Stuk at 05 May 2015 4.17pm

Wouldn't be hard to make NI cards (which we all have) into photo ID for the NHS.

National ID cards, worked out so well the last time that was proposed. You should have an NHS ID number anyway, the problem isn't really with the treatment, its with the infrastructure and systems by which they're recorded, invoiced to the host nation and funds are collected (based on the assorted insurance schemes of those nations or health care programs).

If it was as easy as sending an invoice to Accounts Payable, Nigeria. Its a minefield.


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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View crystal balls's Profile crystal balls Flag The Garden of Earthly Delights 06 May 15 12.48pm Send a Private Message to crystal balls Add crystal balls as a friend

Quote johnno42000 at 06 May 2015 12.19pm

Quote crystal balls at 06 May 2015 8.16am

Quote johnno42000 at 05 May 2015 11.22pm

Nigel Farage the Roderick Spode of the 21st Century.


But not quite as unintentionally funny!

Although I could see him in black shorts


[Link]

"Nothing stands between us and victory; except defeat!"

 


I used to be immortal

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 06 May 15 12.52pm

Quote dannyh at 05 May 2015 5.00pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 05 May 2015 4.10pm

Quote dannyh at 05 May 2015 3.30pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 05 May 2015 2.25pm

Quote dannyh at 05 May 2015 1.59pm

Quote npn at 05 May 2015 1.46pm

I'm not voting UKIP.

I am amazed, however, that a lot of people I know (particularly left-leaning ones, to be fair) seem totally disgusted by them. I had to step into one of those pointless Facebook battles when someone posted that UKIP and their supporters are a disgrace. It seems everyone is in favour of free speech, provided the person speaking agrees with their views.

If you don't like UKIP, don't vote for them. Pretty simple. Shouting them down and referring to them as a disgrace, and even trying to associate them with the BNP because of some spurious, vague, and not even verified, assertion that Griffin will be voting for them (he's a far-right person, natural he's going to vote for the furthest right candidate, surely? Just like Mao would probably vote TUSC because they are the closest aligned to his own ideal, not because those ideals are the same) is surely a very poor effort at debate.


Yes but why let facts and common sense rule, when you can claim anyone who even knows how to spell Farage is a foaming at the mouth jack boot wearing Nazi.

As far as I can see:

he wants out of Europe ( no bad thing )
Tighter controls on immigration (something both Labour and Tory Governments have promised much on but have delivered little).
Wants more money spent on the Armed Forces not less( no brainer for those that know)
Wants to improve by the NHS by putting a stop to NHS tourism.

Have I missed the bit where he wants burning crosses at the end of every street where Johnny Foreigner lives.

Some people on here are so up them selves they can literally lick their own tonsils.


Edited by dannyh (05 May 2015 2.00pm)

This perception interests me, as its not actually entirely accurate. Both the Conservatives and previous Labour governments pursued and implemented policy restrictions on immigration and citizenship that were tough, and arguably very close to restrictive.

The problem is really with temporary EU migrant workers - and really only after the economic downturn (prior to that no one really cared that the woman making sandwiches in the canteen had Masters and was from Poland).

The issue, is of course that a large part of the UK economy is entirely dependent on a) foreign investment b) a cheap EU labour force.

UKIP can promise to end all that, because they don't have to ever do it. If Labour or the Conservatives make the same promise and win, then they actually have to shoot the UK economy in the head, over an issue that's really more 'ideological' due to the current economic situation, than anything else.

Taking the migrant labour out of the question means jobs either go abroad, or the wages rise, which means costs rise, which results people being worse off, overall, and the government getting the blame.

And then if growth does recover to a pre-2010 level, they'd need to rediscover that labour.

If your UKIP (or the Greens) you can promise to do all manner of things that are economic suicide, but are popular, because you'll never get called on it.

Unless of course you're the Lib Dems, who promised all kinds of things at the last election, and then got crucified by their own supporters for compromising them to form a coalition government (and now are likely to take more of a battering than a member of the Barrymore swim club).


Tighter controls on immagration is not fiscal suicide at all, Australia seem to be doing fine. And there also not part of the Euro Disaster.

Thing is JM I'm not going to get booged down in a financial debate, it is long winded and boring, but your above post is just "scare mongering" as anything printed by the mail, or the Grauniad.

I will say this though on finances, the next country to go bust in the Eurozone (Spain most likely)will get the last of the bale out money, then what ? Greece have basically all but said f*** you to the Germans. Thank christ the Tories kept the pound, or we'd be in just as big a pile of shyte as Germany who are owed billions with no chance of getting it back.

Australia also isn't in a position where its actively pursuing policy that would essentially mean a large part of the work force would be 'ineligible to work in the UK' which UKIP is pushing.

Not it is not, that is just made up bollicks, what UKIP ARE saying is that they want british jobs for British people, no matter what ethinicity you are. And for your information the Ozzies are far tougher on immagration than we are.

Some of UKIPs policies I agree with. I want to see the removal of imported competition for low skilled work, but I also want to see those jobs filled by workers, on a decent living wage.

That is the floor in the European free market, people with low standards of living in countries like Poland and Romania come to the UK work for Peanuts, send the money home, keeping the low wage down if there wasnt the people to pay low wages too, then the wage would go up, simple supply and demand economics.

The NHS 'tourism' issue is something that should be addressed, providing the costs of doing so aren't restrictive (the NHS isn't really set up to do this - and the last attempt to set the NHS up for that level of infrastructure management was a disaster).

Only because there are to many managers instigated by Labour who went Quango mad on the NHS, the management ( I use the term losely) needs gutting, and with NI numbers the Government already has the info it needs to start issuing NHS cards as photo ID. The cost would be negligable against the amount that would be saved. It may even stop people turning up at AE departments with a f***ing cold for christ sake, if they think they have to admit who they are first.

UKIP are like the Lib Dems, it was easy when they didn't have to deliver to their supporters. Once they did, they failed because they'd promised 'impossible dreams'.

And just how has UKIP failed by becoming (according to most poles) the third biggest party in local elections, I agree in the Kilroy Silk days they were seen as a bit of a joke, not so much these days, with the Tories seemingly open to a coalition to gain a majority.

I'm not against a private NHS, Germany and France, both have a Private Health Care System, which is more effective and efficient than our own - Its about how you do it.

No it is not. I lived in Germany for 4 years and the waiting times are bloody horrendous, I waited in an empty waiting room for 3 hours with my young daughter in agony with a dislocated elbow. The NHS should be a shinning beacon to the rest of the world, but it is chronically understaffed and has been mis-managed by a bunch of f***tards for at least the last twenty to thirty years.

That said, I've got no idea who I'm going to vote for. Probably it'll be Green on the basis of their drug policy.

You'd have to be a crack head to vote for those eco nutters




Lol.

I'm all for the idea of jobs for the British, what I haven't really seen is actually how UKIP plan to make that work, without it either resulting in a hike in wages (and thus costs to the consumer) or cost to the taxpayer in relocating people to fill the presumed vacancies.

A governments first duty should always be to the people it represents. However it should also be pragmatic and responsible in how it goes about it - and UPFRONT about how its going to achieve it.

More importantly, in UKIPs case, that in doing so it won't actually result in greater problems. Ideals are all well and good, but pragmatism is essential. Radical changes rarely end well.

UKIP, like the Greens, are attracting supporters because they're protest votes. Neither are even remotely capable of delivering on their manifesto without sinking the nation into a pit of financial catastrophe.

But they don't have to be. They won't have to deliver.


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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View johnno42000's Profile johnno42000 Flag 06 May 15 12.54pm Send a Private Message to johnno42000 Add johnno42000 as a friend

Quote crystal balls at 06 May 2015 12.48pm

Quote johnno42000 at 06 May 2015 12.19pm

Quote crystal balls at 06 May 2015 8.16am

Quote johnno42000 at 05 May 2015 11.22pm

Nigel Farage the Roderick Spode of the 21st Century.


But not quite as unintentionally funny!

Although I could see him in black shorts


[Link]

"Nothing stands between us and victory; except defeat!"


 


'Lies to the masses as are like fly's to mollasses...they want more and more and more'

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 06 May 15 12.57pm

Quote The Sash at 06 May 2015 12.36pm

Quote npn at 05 May 2015 1.46pm

I'm not voting UKIP.

I am amazed, however, that a lot of people I know (particularly left-leaning ones, to be fair) seem totally disgusted by them. I had to step into one of those pointless Facebook battles when someone posted that UKIP and their supporters are a disgrace. It seems everyone is in favour of free speech, provided the person speaking agrees with their views.

If you don't like UKIP, don't vote for them. Pretty simple. Shouting them down and referring to them as a disgrace, and even trying to associate them with the BNP because of some spurious, vague, and not even verified, assertion that Griffin will be voting for them (he's a far-right person, natural he's going to vote for the furthest right candidate, surely? Just like Mao would probably vote TUSC because they are the closest aligned to his own ideal, not because those ideals are the same) is surely a very poor effort at debate.

Exactamundo

Always amazes me that people who shout down those they oppose and accuse them of intolerance (and in this case threaten as result) seem to have a massive 'whoosh' at the disclosure of their own intolerance of people who hold a political view counter to their own.

Its not even debate - its simply Wolfie Smith Polytechnic level 'right on-ness' white noise..

Edited by The Sash (06 May 2015 12.38pm)

In the end, those shouting loudest, usually prosper, because they're easy to shout louder at. I mean who cares if UKIP's employment policy or economic models are feasible, when you can shout Nazi.

Said it when Griffin was on Question Time, that going on about the BNP and race is pointless, they're prepared for that, get them on the economics and practicality of policy, and they'll hang themselves.

Nothing wrong with being a Neo-Nazi, that's your right, but the trick is making them look stupid, not yourself.

I don't really like UKIP, but I think the media love them (they're unspin, full of gaffs and interesting) compared to the mainstream (similarly the Greens). Realistically, they're being presented really as a deflection from the fact that none of the mainstream parties have much to say other than slagging off the others.


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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View dannyh's Profile dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 06 May 15 1.31pm Send a Private Message to dannyh Add dannyh as a friend

Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 May 2015 12.52pm

Quote dannyh at 05 May 2015 5.00pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 05 May 2015 4.10pm

Quote dannyh at 05 May 2015 3.30pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 05 May 2015 2.25pm

Quote dannyh at 05 May 2015 1.59pm

Quote npn at 05 May 2015 1.46pm

I'm not voting UKIP.

I am amazed, however, that a lot of people I know (particularly left-leaning ones, to be fair) seem totally disgusted by them. I had to step into one of those pointless Facebook battles when someone posted that UKIP and their supporters are a disgrace. It seems everyone is in favour of free speech, provided the person speaking agrees with their views.

If you don't like UKIP, don't vote for them. Pretty simple. Shouting them down and referring to them as a disgrace, and even trying to associate them with the BNP because of some spurious, vague, and not even verified, assertion that Griffin will be voting for them (he's a far-right person, natural he's going to vote for the furthest right candidate, surely? Just like Mao would probably vote TUSC because they are the closest aligned to his own ideal, not because those ideals are the same) is surely a very poor effort at debate.


Yes but why let facts and common sense rule, when you can claim anyone who even knows how to spell Farage is a foaming at the mouth jack boot wearing Nazi.

As far as I can see:

he wants out of Europe ( no bad thing )
Tighter controls on immigration (something both Labour and Tory Governments have promised much on but have delivered little).
Wants more money spent on the Armed Forces not less( no brainer for those that know)
Wants to improve by the NHS by putting a stop to NHS tourism.

Have I missed the bit where he wants burning crosses at the end of every street where Johnny Foreigner lives.

Some people on here are so up them selves they can literally lick their own tonsils.


Edited by dannyh (05 May 2015 2.00pm)

This perception interests me, as its not actually entirely accurate. Both the Conservatives and previous Labour governments pursued and implemented policy restrictions on immigration and citizenship that were tough, and arguably very close to restrictive.

The problem is really with temporary EU migrant workers - and really only after the economic downturn (prior to that no one really cared that the woman making sandwiches in the canteen had Masters and was from Poland).

The issue, is of course that a large part of the UK economy is entirely dependent on a) foreign investment b) a cheap EU labour force.

UKIP can promise to end all that, because they don't have to ever do it. If Labour or the Conservatives make the same promise and win, then they actually have to shoot the UK economy in the head, over an issue that's really more 'ideological' due to the current economic situation, than anything else.

Taking the migrant labour out of the question means jobs either go abroad, or the wages rise, which means costs rise, which results people being worse off, overall, and the government getting the blame.

And then if growth does recover to a pre-2010 level, they'd need to rediscover that labour.

If your UKIP (or the Greens) you can promise to do all manner of things that are economic suicide, but are popular, because you'll never get called on it.

Unless of course you're the Lib Dems, who promised all kinds of things at the last election, and then got crucified by their own supporters for compromising them to form a coalition government (and now are likely to take more of a battering than a member of the Barrymore swim club).


Tighter controls on immagration is not fiscal suicide at all, Australia seem to be doing fine. And there also not part of the Euro Disaster.

Thing is JM I'm not going to get booged down in a financial debate, it is long winded and boring, but your above post is just "scare mongering" as anything printed by the mail, or the Grauniad.

I will say this though on finances, the next country to go bust in the Eurozone (Spain most likely)will get the last of the bale out money, then what ? Greece have basically all but said f*** you to the Germans. Thank christ the Tories kept the pound, or we'd be in just as big a pile of shyte as Germany who are owed billions with no chance of getting it back.

Australia also isn't in a position where its actively pursuing policy that would essentially mean a large part of the work force would be 'ineligible to work in the UK' which UKIP is pushing.

Not it is not, that is just made up bollicks, what UKIP ARE saying is that they want british jobs for British people, no matter what ethinicity you are. And for your information the Ozzies are far tougher on immagration than we are.

Some of UKIPs policies I agree with. I want to see the removal of imported competition for low skilled work, but I also want to see those jobs filled by workers, on a decent living wage.

That is the floor in the European free market, people with low standards of living in countries like Poland and Romania come to the UK work for Peanuts, send the money home, keeping the low wage down if there wasnt the people to pay low wages too, then the wage would go up, simple supply and demand economics.

The NHS 'tourism' issue is something that should be addressed, providing the costs of doing so aren't restrictive (the NHS isn't really set up to do this - and the last attempt to set the NHS up for that level of infrastructure management was a disaster).

Only because there are to many managers instigated by Labour who went Quango mad on the NHS, the management ( I use the term losely) needs gutting, and with NI numbers the Government already has the info it needs to start issuing NHS cards as photo ID. The cost would be negligable against the amount that would be saved. It may even stop people turning up at AE departments with a f***ing cold for christ sake, if they think they have to admit who they are first.

UKIP are like the Lib Dems, it was easy when they didn't have to deliver to their supporters. Once they did, they failed because they'd promised 'impossible dreams'.

And just how has UKIP failed by becoming (according to most poles) the third biggest party in local elections, I agree in the Kilroy Silk days they were seen as a bit of a joke, not so much these days, with the Tories seemingly open to a coalition to gain a majority.

I'm not against a private NHS, Germany and France, both have a Private Health Care System, which is more effective and efficient than our own - Its about how you do it.

No it is not. I lived in Germany for 4 years and the waiting times are bloody horrendous, I waited in an empty waiting room for 3 hours with my young daughter in agony with a dislocated elbow. The NHS should be a shinning beacon to the rest of the world, but it is chronically understaffed and has been mis-managed by a bunch of f***tards for at least the last twenty to thirty years.

That said, I've got no idea who I'm going to vote for. Probably it'll be Green on the basis of their drug policy.

You'd have to be a crack head to vote for those eco nutters




Lol.

I'm all for the idea of jobs for the British, what I haven't really seen is actually how UKIP plan to make that work, without it either resulting in a hike in wages (and thus costs to the consumer) or cost to the taxpayer in relocating people to fill the presumed vacancies.

A governments first duty should always be to the people it represents. However it should also be pragmatic and responsible in how it goes about it - and UPFRONT about how its going to achieve it.

More importantly, in UKIPs case, that in doing so it won't actually result in greater problems. Ideals are all well and good, but pragmatism is essential. Radical changes rarely end well.

UKIP, like the Greens, are attracting supporters because they're protest votes. Neither are even remotely capable of delivering on their manifesto without sinking the nation into a pit of financial catastrophe.

But they don't have to be. They won't have to deliver.


But essentially is there any real difference in not having to, and saying you will keep promises and then nbreaking them Both scenarios end up with the same result nothing changes.

And until one of the other parties wins a bucket of seats nothing will change, but the greens ? FFS Jamie lad come on

I mean does anyone believe millipeed, that just because he's put his parties catch phrases and by words on a stone slab that we will believe the adanoidal buffon ?

Anyway come what may, it will be interesting and I daresay humerous watching the lack of votes come in, and the general apathy of tomorrow.


Edited by dannyh (06 May 2015 1.35pm)

 


"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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