Calais migrant trouble
Register | Edit Profile | Subscriptions | Forum Rules | Log In | RSS Feed
 chris123  hove actually 31 Jul 15 8.49am |
  |
|---|---|
|
Quote The Sash at 31 Jul 2015 7.59am
Quote davenotamonkey at 30 Jul 2015 9.57pm
“None of us want to live like this. I just want to live in Britain, make a family, take my kids to school” Poor, poor people in war-torn France. Pray for them, please.
|
|
 Alert a moderator to this post |
  |
| beagle pom tiddly om pom pom 31 Jul 15 8.57am |
|
|---|---|
|
Quote leggedstruggle at 31 Jul 2015 8.42am
Surely, in this day and age - after all it is the 21st century (or the 15th if you are a Muslim), it is time to reduce the numbers of the indigenous population to make way for these vibrant, enriching and diverse, wholly deserving, oppressed asylum seekers. All these, largely racist, people who have lived here all their lives, their mere existence oppressing the masses in Sudan, should be sent somewhere - corralled in Tower Hamlets perhaps. Failing that, everyone with a spare room should take in an asylum seeker or two. It is the least we can do to atone for our ancestors being slave owners (at least the ones who were not in effect slaves themselves as agricultural labourers, or early factory workers). The policies need refining - perhaps Nick and Kermit can come up with definite proposals when they publish their long awaited immigration policy. Its as if Delwboy never left.
When the time comes, I want die just like my Dad - at peace and asleep. |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| npn Crowborough 31 Jul 15 10.19am |
|
|---|---|
|
Quote serial thriller at 31 Jul 2015 1.02am
I genuinely don't believe that we are that far from seeing a policy of murder being pursuited by the British government towards these people. Cameron has channeled the prominent animal terminology which the media have been using, while government policy rests uncomfortably between non-intervention (which will lead to thousands of deaths as the winter months approach) and aggressive action (sending in the army, whatever that's supposed to achieve). As has been said before ad infinitum, the referencing of human beings as animals has been a precursor to murder throughout history, be it the Jews under the Nazis, through the Rwandan genocide and Indians in the Raj to the Slave trade and everything in between. What's equally as concerning is that these people are now citizenless, without defence should a state that they don't belong to and have never set foot in decide to exterminate them. I think we're finding ourselves at a real tipping point, because there are now more displaced people in the world than ever before, and that number only looks set to increase as wealth inequality rises, climate change continues to take effect and resources become more and more scarce. In fact it could be one of the defining issues of the century, and it is incumbent on the leader's of the world to find a solution to the problem which doesn't merely involve large-scale temporary resettlement or, worse still, the deaths of millions of the poorest people in the world.
Meanwhile, I'm still keen to find out WHY these people will risk everything to leave France and get here. Leaving Eritrea etc for Europe I get, but why risk your lives to get to Britain? What's the draw? Particularly given the fact that the levels of benefit are not vastly different. I saw some news footage this morning of a bloke helping a kid (presumably son/daughter) over the fence - the child could have been no more than 7 or 8, and he's taking him/her to climb into/under a truck or train and potentially get killed to get to the UK rather than France or any of the other safe countries they'd passed through to get that far - WHY??
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Mr Palaceman 31 Jul 15 10.23am |
|
|---|---|
|
Quote Tom-the-eagle at 31 Jul 2015 7.40am
I am writing this having been up since 6 this morning working, I am also writing this having just paid a (what was for me) huge amount for my half yearly tax last night which I (or my family) cannot really afford. On that basis, excuse me if I do not sound too sympathetic towards these economic migrants who would all be entitled to free healthcare, education, benefits and housing, for which I would need to start work even earlier in the morning in order to be able to pay even more tax to make sure all their needs are met when I, a small business owner, an employer, get absolutely sweet FA in help from the government even though I work 7 days a week just to put bread on my kids table. Do people not understand – all these people come at a HUGE cost to us, the taxpayer. I have been watching this debate for a while and I agree with elements of both sides of the arguement but there are some myths that seem to get repeated time and time again and one of them is that everyone who comes here gets everything free. That just isn't true. The truth is that migrants who come here put more in and take less out than the locals. They tend to work rather than claim benefits, so huge cost to the taxpayer I think not. Historically the taxman has made more from immigration than is paid out in benefits for those that come and just claim. Having said that, why should anyone be allowed to claim anything, when they have not paid in or contributed in some way the the betterment of our nation. If that is allowed to happen then those that work hard and contribute just feel the system is unfair and who can argue with that. So there needs to be effective control over who comes here and I believe that is the sovereign right of our country and should not be left for the EU to dictate. Most EU member states would, I believe, have no problem in letting Migrants pass through their country to come here because they don't want them in their countries even more than us. We have, I believe, always been a more tolerant country than say, Spain, Italy, France or Germany. When it comes to helping those from other countries, the British people have always been right up there, in the giving of charity to foreign causes but on a government level, we don't take as many, as Germany for instance, who take 6 times as many and France who take twice as many as us. Another thought is that even if migrants do contribute to the country and it's economy, there are other factors that need to be considered, such as social impact and the fact that large numbers of the population just don't want foreigners here and that view is important because it's just how some people feel and right or wrong, that isn't going to change with what's going on now. Reading through these threads, it seems to me that there are many threads stating the problems without really offering any practical solutions to those perceived problems. They aren't going to stop wanting to come, while their own countries are in turmoil, that's a reality that we have to accept. We are going to have to invest more in the stability of those countries where the migrants come from and I believe that we can do that in a way that benefits our country. If we don't the tide will increase and spending money on fences will not stop them. If I was them, I would want to come here, we are a lot safer and you can make a fair living most of the time. When some of them can't even live, let alone earn, what do they have to lose by coming here? That's what needs to change before people stop wanting to come and it is becoming more apparent that we cannot cope with those migrants who have the determination to come to Europe/Britain for a better life.
"You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead" Stan Laurel |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| chris123 hove actually 31 Jul 15 10.43am |
|
|---|---|
|
Quote Mr Palaceman at 31 Jul 2015 10.23am
Quote Tom-the-eagle at 31 Jul 2015 7.40am
I am writing this having been up since 6 this morning working, I am also writing this having just paid a (what was for me) huge amount for my half yearly tax last night which I (or my family) cannot really afford. On that basis, excuse me if I do not sound too sympathetic towards these economic migrants who would all be entitled to free healthcare, education, benefits and housing, for which I would need to start work even earlier in the morning in order to be able to pay even more tax to make sure all their needs are met when I, a small business owner, an employer, get absolutely sweet FA in help from the government even though I work 7 days a week just to put bread on my kids table. Do people not understand – all these people come at a HUGE cost to us, the taxpayer. I have been watching this debate for a while and I agree with elements of both sides of the arguement but there are some myths that seem to get repeated time and time again and one of them is that everyone who comes here gets everything free. That just isn't true. The truth is that migrants who come here put more in and take less out than the locals. They tend to work rather than claim benefits, so huge cost to the taxpayer I think not. Historically the taxman has made more from immigration than is paid out in benefits for those that come and just claim. Having said that, why should anyone be allowed to claim anything, when they have not paid in or contributed in some way the the betterment of our nation. If that is allowed to happen then those that work hard and contribute just feel the system is unfair and who can argue with that. So there needs to be effective control over who comes here and I believe that is the sovereign right of our country and should not be left for the EU to dictate. Most EU member states would, I believe, have no problem in letting Migrants pass through their country to come here because they don't want them in their countries even more than us. We have, I believe, always been a more tolerant country than say, Spain, Italy, France or Germany. When it comes to helping those from other countries, the British people have always been right up there, in the giving of charity to foreign causes but on a government level, we don't take as many, as Germany for instance, who take 6 times as many and France who take twice as many as us. Another thought is that even if migrants do contribute to the country and it's economy, there are other factors that need to be considered, such as social impact and the fact that large numbers of the population just don't want foreigners here and that view is important because it's just how some people feel and right or wrong, that isn't going to change with what's going on now. Reading through these threads, it seems to me that there are many threads stating the problems without really offering any practical solutions to those perceived problems. They aren't going to stop wanting to come, while their own countries are in turmoil, that's a reality that we have to accept. We are going to have to invest more in the stability of those countries where the migrants come from and I believe that we can do that in a way that benefits our country. If we don't the tide will increase and spending money on fences will not stop them. If I was them, I would want to come here, we are a lot safer and you can make a fair living most of the time. When some of them can't even live, let alone earn, what do they have to lose by coming here? That's what needs to change before people stop wanting to come and it is becoming more apparent that we cannot cope with those migrants who have the determination to come to Europe/Britain for a better life.
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 31 Jul 15 11.16am |
|
|---|---|
|
And Labour are criticising Cameron for his use of the word "Swarm". Shows how detached they are from the general public and what little "Opposition" they offer. Burnham has gone about "Dog whistling" and the "Bullingdon Club" - dear oh dear. Edited by Willo (31 Jul 2015 11.17am)
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| jamiemartin721 Reading 31 Jul 15 11.19am |
|
|---|---|
|
Quote dannyh at 31 Jul 2015 8.46am
Sending in the Army will give more man power to guard against the illegal activety (there's that word again illegal funny how that keeps cropping up) of breaking through fences, breaking into lorrys, and trying to gain illegal entry into the UK. The police dont have the numbers to cope, send the army in to patrol in riot gear no leathal weapons and you gain control of the situation, the simple fact of the matter is, at the moment there is not sufficeint man power to stop people attempting illegal (oh look there it is again) entry into the UK. We can't, its a foreign nation, so we cannot deploy troops in France unless a) France asks us and b) NATO agrees. Deploying the military to police civilians isn't something to be taken lightly either. Rarely ends well and its not like these people are 'that much trouble'. I hate seeing the Army or Military deployed essentially as a means of government actually doing its job properly. Not really sure of how well trained the army are to deal with riots either. What we should actually do is spend revenue on the Border Agency and Immigration service to improve its capacity to protect points of common ingress, scanning equipment such as thermal imaging devices and staff. It could also do with proper funding for services involved in processing applicants. But we also should not be doing the French Governments job for them either. This camp isn't really fit for human habitation either.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| jamiemartin721 Reading 31 Jul 15 11.21am |
|
|---|---|
|
Quote chris123 at 31 Jul 2015 10.43am
Quote Mr Palaceman at 31 Jul 2015 10.23am
Quote Tom-the-eagle at 31 Jul 2015 7.40am
I am writing this having been up since 6 this morning working, I am also writing this having just paid a (what was for me) huge amount for my half yearly tax last night which I (or my family) cannot really afford. On that basis, excuse me if I do not sound too sympathetic towards these economic migrants who would all be entitled to free healthcare, education, benefits and housing, for which I would need to start work even earlier in the morning in order to be able to pay even more tax to make sure all their needs are met when I, a small business owner, an employer, get absolutely sweet FA in help from the government even though I work 7 days a week just to put bread on my kids table. Do people not understand – all these people come at a HUGE cost to us, the taxpayer. I have been watching this debate for a while and I agree with elements of both sides of the arguement but there are some myths that seem to get repeated time and time again and one of them is that everyone who comes here gets everything free. That just isn't true. The truth is that migrants who come here put more in and take less out than the locals. They tend to work rather than claim benefits, so huge cost to the taxpayer I think not. Historically the taxman has made more from immigration than is paid out in benefits for those that come and just claim. Having said that, why should anyone be allowed to claim anything, when they have not paid in or contributed in some way the the betterment of our nation. If that is allowed to happen then those that work hard and contribute just feel the system is unfair and who can argue with that. So there needs to be effective control over who comes here and I believe that is the sovereign right of our country and should not be left for the EU to dictate. Most EU member states would, I believe, have no problem in letting Migrants pass through their country to come here because they don't want them in their countries even more than us. We have, I believe, always been a more tolerant country than say, Spain, Italy, France or Germany. When it comes to helping those from other countries, the British people have always been right up there, in the giving of charity to foreign causes but on a government level, we don't take as many, as Germany for instance, who take 6 times as many and France who take twice as many as us. Another thought is that even if migrants do contribute to the country and it's economy, there are other factors that need to be considered, such as social impact and the fact that large numbers of the population just don't want foreigners here and that view is important because it's just how some people feel and right or wrong, that isn't going to change with what's going on now. Reading through these threads, it seems to me that there are many threads stating the problems without really offering any practical solutions to those perceived problems. They aren't going to stop wanting to come, while their own countries are in turmoil, that's a reality that we have to accept. We are going to have to invest more in the stability of those countries where the migrants come from and I believe that we can do that in a way that benefits our country. If we don't the tide will increase and spending money on fences will not stop them. If I was them, I would want to come here, we are a lot safer and you can make a fair living most of the time. When some of them can't even live, let alone earn, what do they have to lose by coming here? That's what needs to change before people stop wanting to come and it is becoming more apparent that we cannot cope with those migrants who have the determination to come to Europe/Britain for a better life.
Primarily, yes, but its also our problem to an extent if they're breaking out of the camp and trying to get to the UK. We shouldn't just be sending them back to the French camp if we intercept them.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| chris123 hove actually 31 Jul 15 12.10pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Quote jamiemartin721 at 31 Jul 2015 11.21am
Quote chris123 at 31 Jul 2015 10.43am
Quote Mr Palaceman at 31 Jul 2015 10.23am
Quote Tom-the-eagle at 31 Jul 2015 7.40am
I am writing this having been up since 6 this morning working, I am also writing this having just paid a (what was for me) huge amount for my half yearly tax last night which I (or my family) cannot really afford. On that basis, excuse me if I do not sound too sympathetic towards these economic migrants who would all be entitled to free healthcare, education, benefits and housing, for which I would need to start work even earlier in the morning in order to be able to pay even more tax to make sure all their needs are met when I, a small business owner, an employer, get absolutely sweet FA in help from the government even though I work 7 days a week just to put bread on my kids table. Do people not understand – all these people come at a HUGE cost to us, the taxpayer. I have been watching this debate for a while and I agree with elements of both sides of the arguement but there are some myths that seem to get repeated time and time again and one of them is that everyone who comes here gets everything free. That just isn't true. The truth is that migrants who come here put more in and take less out than the locals. They tend to work rather than claim benefits, so huge cost to the taxpayer I think not. Historically the taxman has made more from immigration than is paid out in benefits for those that come and just claim. Having said that, why should anyone be allowed to claim anything, when they have not paid in or contributed in some way the the betterment of our nation. If that is allowed to happen then those that work hard and contribute just feel the system is unfair and who can argue with that. So there needs to be effective control over who comes here and I believe that is the sovereign right of our country and should not be left for the EU to dictate. Most EU member states would, I believe, have no problem in letting Migrants pass through their country to come here because they don't want them in their countries even more than us. We have, I believe, always been a more tolerant country than say, Spain, Italy, France or Germany. When it comes to helping those from other countries, the British people have always been right up there, in the giving of charity to foreign causes but on a government level, we don't take as many, as Germany for instance, who take 6 times as many and France who take twice as many as us. Another thought is that even if migrants do contribute to the country and it's economy, there are other factors that need to be considered, such as social impact and the fact that large numbers of the population just don't want foreigners here and that view is important because it's just how some people feel and right or wrong, that isn't going to change with what's going on now. Reading through these threads, it seems to me that there are many threads stating the problems without really offering any practical solutions to those perceived problems. They aren't going to stop wanting to come, while their own countries are in turmoil, that's a reality that we have to accept. We are going to have to invest more in the stability of those countries where the migrants come from and I believe that we can do that in a way that benefits our country. If we don't the tide will increase and spending money on fences will not stop them. If I was them, I would want to come here, we are a lot safer and you can make a fair living most of the time. When some of them can't even live, let alone earn, what do they have to lose by coming here? That's what needs to change before people stop wanting to come and it is becoming more apparent that we cannot cope with those migrants who have the determination to come to Europe/Britain for a better life.
Primarily, yes, but its also our problem to an extent if they're breaking out of the camp and trying to get to the UK. We shouldn't just be sending them back to the French camp if we intercept them.
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| johnfirewall 31 Jul 15 12.40pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Quote Mr Palaceman at 31 Jul 2015 10.23am
I have been watching this debate for a while and I agree with elements of both sides of the arguement but there are some myths that seem to get repeated time and time again and one of them is that everyone who comes here gets everything free. That just isn't true. The truth is that migrants who come here put more in and take less out than the locals. They tend to work rather than claim benefits, so huge cost to the taxpayer I think not. Historically the taxman has made more from immigration than is paid out in benefits for those that come and just claim. Having said that, why should anyone be allowed to claim anything, when they have not paid in or contributed in some way the the betterment of our nation. I thought the 'myth' was that they were entitled to anything at all. Which is it? We can all appreciate that previous waves of migration (I refuse to identify specific groups so as to avoid debate on their individual merits or lack of) has been positive the country, but times have changed and now we're universally known as a nation of handouts we're not going to get the same calibre of migrants. Assuming a finite amount of work, an additional person with a job is going to equate to someone on the dole so it's not necessarily the newcomer claiming benefits. Again 'taking our jobs' and 'paying people to do nothing' are separate debates, I'm just pointing out the more basic economics people may be overlooking. 1 person on 20k odd will roughly pay for 1 person on the lowest benefits. On the basis of 50% of migrants working and paying tax you're talking a net gain of fcuk all. But you've got to consider that 99% will be coming over without a job and that those who've already secured one will likely have been put in touch with someone for cash in hand work. Of course there are high earners from abroad but let's agree that none of those in Calais are going to be doctors and that letting them in is going to be of zero benefit to us. Even if they all worked they still may or may not claim benefits or pay tax. We don't even know how many there are. I don't really know how we've leapfrogged the discussion of the potential drain suddenly suggesting they'd offer a boost to the economy. I reluctantly refer to the 'left' again, but they really do need to decide whether we should accommodate migrants because: a) We can/ should ..without alternating between the two when the other option has been disputed. The other irritation is that the 'left' are about as willing as your average racist to distinguish between economic migrants and asylum cases. Not that I've got answers on how chose who we want and ensure we accept only those people, but any system than the indiscriminate acceptance of previous policy. Edited by johnfirewall (31 Jul 2015 12.55pm)
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| jamiemartin721 Reading 31 Jul 15 12.48pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Quote chris123 at 31 Jul 2015 12.10pm
If they are economic migrants, with no right to stay, they should be sent back to their country of origin. I think the problem is more determining if they are. Its complicated by the fact that most asylum applicants and illegals travel on fake documentation and tracking their country of origin can be very hard if they won't admit it. Even then that country may very well state a different case. Its much harder than people imagine, because genuine asylum seekers rarely travel on legitimate documents.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
 Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 31 Jul 15 12.49pm |
|
|---|---|
|
There hasn't been this level of immigration since 1066. Back then, of course, it was called an invasion.
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
Login / Register
All images and text on this site are copyright © 1999-2023 The Holmesdale Online, unless otherwise stated.
Web Design by Guntrisoft Ltd.