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High immigration levels prevent 'cohesive society'

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 23 Feb 16 4.50pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Don't start with the Judge thing or Jamie will accuse me of trolling.

I'm not the Judge . Even the Judge wasn't The Judge if you know what I mean. He was an excellent way to shut down any reasonable counter argument to left wing propaganda though.

Frankly I'm glad the likes of you and and the MAZ creature exist. There has to be a counter to foaming mouthed bigotry. The problem I have is that you should be careful you don't alienate the moderates and the easily lead in the process.

Meanwhile. My answer to the refugee crisis is simple. We are helping people on the ground who need it most and not encouraging people to risk their lives traveling to Europe and falling victim to criminal gangs. That is the correct policy.
Many have come to Europe where they are relatively safe and have no need to come to Britain.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (23 Feb 2016 4.41pm)

Refugee and Asylum isn't a problem for the UK, the numbers of people granted Asylum in the UK is surprisingly quite low (its about a 5th of the number of British citizens who emigrate each year). It tends to get a bad press because migration is high, but in truth asylum is a very small figure in immigration, and tends to have the highest level of integration within a generation or so.

It tends to be focused on more by people who 'just don't want foreigners in the UK' full stop rather than those generally concerned with the scale of migration.

 


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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 23 Feb 16 4.55pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Refugee and Asylum isn't a problem for the UK, the numbers of people granted Asylum in the UK is surprisingly quite low (its about a 5th of the number of British citizens who emigrate each year). It tends to get a bad press because migration is high, but in truth asylum is a very small figure in immigration, and tends to have the highest level of integration within a generation or so.

It tends to be focused on more by people who 'just don't want foreigners in the UK' full stop rather than those generally concerned with the scale of migration.

You are correct.

Of course if gusset had his way........

 

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View Stuk's Profile Stuk Flag Top half 23 Feb 16 5.07pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

That looks like quite a lot if they had to come back to the UK. Isn't the UK EU population of migrants something like 600,000 or so. There is half that figure in Brits in Spain alone.

No, it's 2.34m as of last February. Close.

As I said before I doubt even one of the countries on that list will have more UK citizens there, than they have their citizens here.

 


Optimistic as ever

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 23 Feb 16 5.17pm

Article from the FT is from 2014, but, [Link] says that

The number of European migrants in the UK is almost exactly balanced by the number of Britons living elsewhere in the EU, according to official figures.
About 1.8m Britons live in Europe, with Spain boasting an expat population of just over 1m UK citizens, according to government estimates. Of the Britons living in Europe, 400,000 are claiming a state pension from the UK. That compares with an estimate of 2.34m EU citizens living in the UK, according to the latest official figures from Nomis – the National Online Manpower Information System, a service provided by the Office for National Statistics – based on passport records.

Of course with the current crisis, the figures will be different now.

Also worth bearing in mind that mass migration is going to be one of the world's major issues in the next century when things like climate change really take hold.

Edited by nickgusset (23 Feb 2016 5.17pm)

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 23 Feb 16 5.25pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

Article from the FT is from 2014, but, [Link] says that

The number of European migrants in the UK is almost exactly balanced by the number of Britons living elsewhere in the EU, according to official figures.
About 1.8m Britons live in Europe, with Spain boasting an expat population of just over 1m UK citizens, according to government estimates. Of the Britons living in Europe, 400,000 are claiming a state pension from the UK. That compares with an estimate of 2.34m EU citizens living in the UK, according to the latest official figures from Nomis – the National Online Manpower Information System, a service provided by the Office for National Statistics – based on passport records.

Of course with the current crisis, the figures will be different now.

Also worth bearing in mind that mass migration is going to be one of the world's major issues in the next century when things like climate change really take hold.

Edited by nickgusset (23 Feb 2016 5.17pm)

Some of us have been.

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 23 Feb 16 5.42pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Some of us have been.

I think you meant to say you are a 'has been'

But seriously, I don't think we've seen anything yet regarding migration.

 

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View Ketteridge's Profile Ketteridge Flag Brighton 23 Feb 16 6.00pm Send a Private Message to Ketteridge Add Ketteridge as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

If you have a housing shortage and 350k net new people come here every year then that it has to make it worse year on year if insufficient houses are being built. I just don't know how anyone can seriously argue otherwise.

And no, I don't want us to keep building more and more houses and infrastructure to accommodate the influx. Britain is already too crowded. If you doubt it go to France and see the difference.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (23 Feb 2016 3.44pm)

The figure of 350K a year is again misleading , the most recent ONS figures [Link] for net immigration show 330k last year, this was the highest in the 40 year run , the average for 10 years previously was 245k.
Still high but again needs to put in context of total housing stock, 2.1m dwellings have been built since 2003 nearly 5m capacity so easily enough to cover the additional demand from immigration, 2.3 million beds have been lost because the average household size has dropped from 2.4 to 2.3 people per household between 2001 and 2011.

I know you are not keen to build more housing but even if the coalition had carried on building at similar rate to the 5 previous years we would have 55000 more house per year built capacity for 127000 people.

Poor infrastructure has meant more and more business and economic activity has been centered in the South East and London, as nickgusset points out 600,000 are empty more sensible Government planning could ease these issues.
This is not even taking into account that two thirds of immigration between 2005-15 has come from 'controlled' non EU immigration, so surely you would hope people who have been required to boost our economy.
I know ONS stats and official government figures are not as interesting a narrative as floods of migrants but looking at the figures I would suggest that immigration levels as they are can be accommodated.

 


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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 23 Feb 16 6.07pm

Originally posted by Ketteridge

The figure of 350K a year is again misleading , the most recent ONS figures [Link] for net immigration show 330k last year, this was the highest in the 40 year run , the average for 10 years previously was 245k.
Still high but again needs to put in context of total housing stock, 2.1m dwellings have been built since 2003 nearly 5m capacity so easily enough to cover the additional demand from immigration, 2.3 million beds have been lost because the average household size has dropped from 2.4 to 2.3 people per household between 2001 and 2011.

I know you are not keen to build more housing but even if the coalition had carried on building at similar rate to the 5 previous years we would have 55000 more house per year built capacity for 127000 people.

Poor infrastructure has meant more and more business and economic activity has been centered in the South East and London, as nickgusset points out 600,000 are empty more sensible Government planning could ease these issues.
This is not even taking into account that two thirds of immigration between 2005-15 has come from 'controlled' non EU immigration, so surely you would hope people who have been required to boost our economy.
I know ONS stats and official government figures are not as interesting a narrative as floods of migrants but looking at the figures I would suggest that immigration levels as they are can be accommodated.

Interesting stuff that will be widely ignored by many.

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 23 Feb 16 6.08pm

Thread title posits that: 'High immigration levels prevent 'cohesive society'

I'd argue that being a cund towards immigrants prevents a cohesive society more.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 23 Feb 16 6.12pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

I think you meant to say you are a 'has been'

But seriously, I don't think we've seen anything yet regarding migration.

Better than a never was.

And you are right. The flood gates are only open a crack so far. That is why we need to stop deluding that we can always do the "right thing". We must avoid a crisis rather than complaining about it once it has happened.

I can see a day when someone like you is putting a spin on a population of 200 million by saying that the highlands of Scotland are still quite empty.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (23 Feb 2016 6.13pm)

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 23 Feb 16 6.15pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Better than a never was.

And you are right. The flood gates are only open a crack so far. That is why we need to stop deluding that we can always do the "right thing". We must avoid a crisis rather than complaining about it once it has happened.

I can see a day when someone like you is putting a spin on a population of 200 million by saying that the highlands of Scotland are still quite empty.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (23 Feb 2016 6.13pm)


When have I said we should have uncontrolled immigration?
Also, there is no-one like me.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 23 Feb 16 6.20pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Ketteridge

The figure of 350K a year is again misleading , the most recent ONS figures [Link] for net immigration show 330k last year, this was the highest in the 40 year run , the average for 10 years previously was 245k.
Still high but again needs to put in context of total housing stock, 2.1m dwellings have been built since 2003 nearly 5m capacity so easily enough to cover the additional demand from immigration, 2.3 million beds have been lost because the average household size has dropped from 2.4 to 2.3 people per household between 2001 and 2011.

I know you are not keen to build more housing but even if the coalition had carried on building at similar rate to the 5 previous years we would have 55000 more house per year built capacity for 127000 people.

Poor infrastructure has meant more and more business and economic activity has been centered in the South East and London, as nickgusset points out 600,000 are empty more sensible Government planning could ease these issues.
This is not even taking into account that two thirds of immigration between 2005-15 has come from 'controlled' non EU immigration, so surely you would hope people who have been required to boost our economy.
I know ONS stats and official government figures are not as interesting a narrative as floods of migrants but looking at the figures I would suggest that immigration levels as they are can be accommodated.

I don't question your figures but if more water is entering the whole in a sinking ship it doesn't really matter how many gallons come in a minute if you only have a bucket to bail out with. You will drown eventually.
Your assessment depends on there being insufficient sea to sink the ship. That won't be the case. The hole will most likely get bigger and let in more water.

Analogy copyright of Hrolf.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (23 Feb 2016 6.21pm)

 

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