Shaker shocker
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jamiemartin721  Reading 02 Nov 15 1.57pm |
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Quote stevegood at 01 Nov 2015 7.48pm
Of course they are individual people. They are all Muslims, and Islam is a very backward, intolerant and dangerous belief system - and no, I don't think all Muslims are terrorists. You use words like 'countless' and 'lots' again when the supposed innocent are not that many. If they were innocent, it is very regrettable that they were imprisoned and possibly mistreated. Not sure by the way that being a farmer necessarily means that you can't also be a terrorist. My threshold for imprisoning people in a war situation is to err on the side of caution to protect our interests. I'll let you have the last word on this as I don't intend to answer any more post on this, it is pointless. I started this thread as a discussion of one individual, Shaker Aamer, who I think is highly likely a terrorist who is a danger to this country, rather than the returning hero that the New Left present him as. I agree, in which case these people should be detained under the laws regarding prisoners of war. I don't see him as a returning hero at all, but someone who represents the danger the state poses to society and social freedoms, that far excels the danger of terrorism actually does to UK liberties and freedom. What I don't understand is how people can think its acceptable for a free, lawful and democratic society to detain someone, in those conditions, for 14 years without having to even demonstrate their guilt, and then simply just release them.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 02 Nov 15 2.04pm |
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Quote stevegood at 01 Nov 2015 1.29pm
Quote oldcodger at 01 Nov 2015 1.19pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 01 Nov 2015 10.47am
This guy has terrorist written all over him and is biding his time to strike at some point in the future. Funnily enough Shaker Aamer is an old friend of Moazzam Begg. Which is interesting not least because at Gitmo, Begg himself identified Aamer as a ‘recruiter for al-Qaeda’. He said that Aamer had fought in Bosnia and had been a member of the jihadist group run by Abu Zubair al-Haili (a senior al-Qaeda operative from Saudi Arabia) and had among other things spent ’30 days training on the AK-47 and rocket propelled grenades’. Seven separate sources at Guantanamo also described Aamer’s connections to al-Qaeda.
Our allies shouldn't seek to bypass the need for trial and just abduct and lock people up, many of whom the US themselves acknowledge in leaked documents are very likely completely innocent. It seems in your quest to 'protect the innocent' you don't mind if innocent people are kidnapped, tortured and fed through their arseholes via 'rectal feeding' as an enhanced interrogation technique, so sexually abused too. Gitmo is a lawless hell hole. Even a solider posing as a prisoner as part of a training exercise there was beaten so badly he received a significant brain injury. Guilt didn't determine the treatment that people received. Be sickened by that. It's a similar situation to Abu Ghraib, where it was retrospectively viewed that vast numbers of prisoners were not Taliban or al-Qaeda or in fact guilty of anything, just unfortunates caught up in the incredibly flawed bounty system that was throwing money at people. Many tortured there died or killed themselves. The treatment of those innocents doesn't 'sicken you' then? I wonder why. Edited by oldcodger (01 Nov 2015 1.22pm) very likely completely innocent Did the wicked Westerners chop any of their heads off or burn them alive in a cage.
No, they just abducted people, tortured them and held them 'hostage' for 14 years. I don't think you can just take retaliation against anyone for the actions of someone else, without creating a bigger problem. This guy didn't either, he spent the last 14 years in the most secure prison in the world. ISIS didn't exist then (that grew out of the Iraq War of 2003). That's 14 years to build a case against someone, where even a conspiracy to commit acts of terrorism can result in a life sentence. All they achieved is to hand propaganda into the hands of fundermentalist Islamist groups that 'justified' their presentation on a war on Muslims.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 02 Nov 15 2.09pm |
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Quote stevegood at 01 Nov 2015 3.41pm
Vast numbers? The West is at war with militant Islam and I am on the side of the West and am not overly concerned how the enemy is treated as much of the claims of torture etc is enemy propaganda. However, I would far rather be a prisoner of Western powers than a prisoner of militant Islamists. Some forms of Militant Islam. We're very cosy with some of the other factions of Militant Islam (Saudi Arabia, Shia Militias in Iraq, Kurdish armed groups in Syria and Iraq for example). Plus we've barely done anything about Hezbollah in Syria as its an Iranian backed faction, Chechnian Rebel groups in the old Soviet union and have become very cozy with Iran in the last two years. Bear in mind, that apart for IS, that's now financially independent, a lot of these groups are funded and resourced through people in positions of wealth and power in Saudi Arabia.
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