shocking abuse of human rights
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jamiemartin721  Reading 19 Mar 16 3.06pm |
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Originally posted by exitstageright
So do you believe Ahmed's appeal is reasonable - and if not how would you deter such vexatious proceedings? As to your questions. Yes, I believe people have a right to a fair trial. I would enforce that by allowing appeals. But if the appeal judges find that the appeal is vexatious, I would have it that the sentence is increased and the costs borne by the person appealing. I think its not up to anyone by the court of appeal to determine whether someone's application is reasonable - Not anyone else. Also it would have to be without merit or basis, or used as a means of harassment. So an appeal against a fair trial due that questions the concept of a jury of your peers on the basis of race wouldn't be vexatious. Edited by jamiemartin721 (19 Mar 2016 3.12pm)
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 19 Mar 16 3.09pm |
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Originally posted by Deabo2030
Oh don't go there, I'll leave this thread as I know what will happen but if write what I think, free expression only goes so far it's called being PC! My comments will be taken down! Freedom of expression and speech are only valid in public. Legally, internet forums, are private and as such the right to free speech and expression are not applicable. Hence the Rules section being applicable.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| exitstageright London 19 Mar 16 4.21pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
I think its not up to anyone by the court of appeal to determine whether someone's application is reasonable - Not anyone else. Also it would have to be without merit or basis, or used as a means of harassment. So an appeal against a fair trial due that questions the concept of a jury of your peers on the basis of race wouldn't be vexatious. Edited by jamiemartin721 (19 Mar 2016 3.12pm) Certainly the court of appeal can decide if the appeal is vexatious, I have no problem with that. I just want some consequences for the person being vexatious. As for your fair trial comment. You seem to imply that a jury must always be composed only of people of the same race - an extraordinary idea.
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| Tom-the-eagle Croydon 19 Mar 16 5.23pm |
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When I first saw the title I thought this was a thread regarding the Arthur Wait toilets.
"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 19 Mar 16 8.44pm |
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Originally posted by exitstageright
Certainly the court of appeal can decide if the appeal is vexatious, I have no problem with that. I just want some consequences for the person being vexatious. As for your fair trial comment. You seem to imply that a jury must always be composed only of people of the same race - an extraordinary idea. Vexatious litigants are not allowed to lodge applications to the court.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 19 Mar 16 8.47pm |
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Originally posted by exitstageright
Certainly the court of appeal can decide if the appeal is vexatious, I have no problem with that. I just want some consequences for the person being vexatious. As for your fair trial comment. You seem to imply that a jury must always be composed only of people of the same race - an extraordinary idea. No, I don't think it should matter what race the jury are. However, evidence on past trials have shown that race can be a factor in jury members decision making - Especially when there are issues of race in the case. I would posit that an all Asian Muslim or Black jury would be just as compromised as an all white jury.
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| exitstageright London 19 Mar 16 10.19pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Vexatious litigants are not allowed to lodge applications to the court. I must say I didn't really understand when you said "I think its not up to anyone by [sic] the court of appeal to determine whether someone's application is reasonable - Not anyone else." I took it to mean that you think the court of appeal should determine whether an application is vexatious. Now you are saying that such cases do not reach the appeal court? If so, who decides it is vexatious?
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| exitstageright London 19 Mar 16 10.22pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
No, I don't think it should matter what race the jury are. However, evidence on past trials have shown that race can be a factor in jury members decision making - Especially when there are issues of race in the case. I would posit that an all Asian Muslim or Black jury would be just as compromised as an all white jury. You don't think it matters what race the jury are, yet you say that the appeal by the child-rapist is justified when the basis for his appeal is exactly that.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 20 Mar 16 2.54pm |
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Originally posted by exitstageright
You don't think it matters what race the jury are, yet you say that the appeal by the child-rapist is justified when the basis for his appeal is exactly that. If he can prove that its the case, then yes. What I think isn't important in a court of law, its what you can prove.
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| exitstageright London 20 Mar 16 3.24pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
If he can prove that its the case, then yes. What I think isn't important in a court of law, its what you can prove. So you think it is ok to make an appeal on the ground that a trail is institutionally racist because the jury is all-white. The logical conclusion of this is that any reason whatsoever could be used to raise an appeal - the judge is an alien lizard, God was not called as a witness, legal-aid payments are not high enough etc etc. I'm actually happy that such appeals could be made. All I want is that there should be some consequences to the person appealing if the reason is found to be vexatious - an increase in sentence and them bearing the costs of the appeal. I have made this point before of course, but it has passed without comment.
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 Buzzcock In an underground lair near Bright... 20 Mar 16 4.39pm |
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The excessive use of the word vexatious in this thread is becoming vexatious.
In the woods there grew a tree. And a fine fine tree was he. |
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| johnfirewall 20 Mar 16 5.12pm |
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Section 8 of the Human Rights Act was cited by some posh cnuts when their neighbour built a treehouse in their line of sight, yet the council can put up 25 storey blocks on all sides of my flat. It doesn't really mean anything does it.
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