Dutch election?
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 OknotOK  Cockfosters, London 17 Mar 17 11.09am |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Well the simple response is to ask if you believe everything you see and hear. Opinion polls are bunk. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (16 Mar 2017 11.16am) I'm not denying that they are bunk. I'm asking if you think they were deliberately so. As you were spouting paranoia about the left scare-mongering through the visual media. The only way for them to do so would have been for the opinion polls to be deliberately slanted to enable them to provide support for that message. And that idea is bunk. And the idea that television is run by "lefties" is equally bunk. Edited by OknotOK (17 Mar 2017 11.10am)
"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 17 Mar 17 11.46am |
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Originally posted by OknotOK
I'm not denying that they are bunk. I'm asking if you think they were deliberately so. As you were spouting paranoia about the left scare-mongering through the visual media. The only way for them to do so would have been for the opinion polls to be deliberately slanted to enable them to provide support for that message. And that idea is bunk. And the idea that television is run by "lefties" is equally bunk. Edited by OknotOK (17 Mar 2017 11.10am) You can believe what you wish. It is clear to me that the visual media and those on the left play up the threat of the Far Right. In the Dutch election they have suggested that the Right not winning is a surprise and a failure where as in reality the Right have gained considerably and the left have crumbled, as they have all over Europe. Paranoia is just another word people use to close a debate. I'll take paranoid over naive any day.
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| OknotOK Cockfosters, London 17 Mar 17 12.07pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
You can believe what you wish. It is clear to me that the visual media and those on the left play up the threat of the Far Right. In the Dutch election they have suggested that the Right not winning is a surprise and a failure where as in reality the Right have gained considerably and the left have crumbled, as they have all over Europe. Paranoia is just another word people use to close a debate. I'll take paranoid over naive any day. Thanks for that. Just to be clear: the "Right" did win in the Dutch election. Just not the Far Right. Rutte represents the Centre Right. And I'm not actually denying that the media as a whole do occasionally play up the threat of the Far Right. Because it makes good tv/news. But you clearly suggested that they were misreporting the likely success of the Far Right deliberately. The only way they could have done that would be in collaboration with the polling companies deliberately misrepresenting the polling data they were collecting, or deliberately taking polls from non statistically relevant populations. If you're suggesting they did the above, then yes you are a paranoid. And that doesn't make me naive. It's not intended to close down any debate. I asked you up front whether you truly believed that and you've chosen to ignore answering.
"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 17 Mar 17 1.30pm |
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Originally posted by OknotOK
Thanks for that. Just to be clear: the "Right" did win in the Dutch election. Just not the Far Right. Rutte represents the Centre Right. And I'm not actually denying that the media as a whole do occasionally play up the threat of the Far Right. Because it makes good tv/news. But you clearly suggested that they were misreporting the likely success of the Far Right deliberately. The only way they could have done that would be in collaboration with the polling companies deliberately misrepresenting the polling data they were collecting, or deliberately taking polls from non statistically relevant populations. If you're suggesting they did the above, then yes you are a paranoid. And that doesn't make me naive. It's not intended to close down any debate. I asked you up front whether you truly believed that and you've chosen to ignore answering. I would keep an open mind as to whether poll data is genuine. Certainly by being selective with poll data you can create an impression. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (17 Mar 2017 1.31pm)
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 17 Mar 17 1.32pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I would keep an open mind as to whether poll data is genuine. Certainly by being selective with poll data you can create an impression. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (17 Mar 2017 1.31pm)
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| Hrolf The Ganger 17 Mar 17 2.03pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
So lazy.
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| OknotOK Cockfosters, London 17 Mar 17 3.16pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I would keep an open mind as to whether poll data is genuine. Certainly by being selective with poll data you can create an impression. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (17 Mar 2017 1.31pm) I think people should be a bit careful in declaring the Right as succeeding. We're in an electoral cycle that seems to be leaning towards the right. Even then it looks like the next French president might be centre-left (despite the current one being one of the least popular of all time). Things will swing around again. Just like Tony and Gordon getting in didn't mean the Right was dead. The Donald and Brexit don't mean the Left is (especially as much of the Left campaigned quite vociferously for Brexit). But I haven't got an issue with deserved scepticism at the very least over the accuracy of polling data. And it isn't unreasonable to suggest that polling companies will know that if their polls show stories that media want to tell they will be more likely to be used. But there would have to be a balance as they do still rely on credibility.
"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 17 Mar 17 3.44pm |
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Originally posted by OknotOK
I think people should be a bit careful in declaring the Right as succeeding. We're in an electoral cycle that seems to be leaning towards the right. Even then it looks like the next French president might be centre-left (despite the current one being one of the least popular of all time). Things will swing around again. Just like Tony and Gordon getting in didn't mean the Right was dead. The Donald and Brexit don't mean the Left is (especially as much of the Left campaigned quite vociferously for Brexit). But I haven't got an issue with deserved scepticism at the very least over the accuracy of polling data. And it isn't unreasonable to suggest that polling companies will know that if their polls show stories that media want to tell they will be more likely to be used. But there would have to be a balance as they do still rely on credibility. That is speculation. I'm talking about reality. The left are waning and it's not surprising.
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