That's a change of stance from you as originally you implied that it was all Government money.

What's wrong with tax payers subsidising new and exciting technology after all it seems that they are subsidising a lot of our aerospace industry.

Would you care to explain why you have it in for Mr Musk

Tax-payers subsidise ALL industries. Our taxes pay for the roads they use to ship goods, the police that protect them and their goods from criminals, the fire fighters who will respond if their building catches fire, healthcare (outside the US, at least) to keep their workers healthy and productive, and education to ensure that there is an educated workforce available to employ. This doesn't even include the military who protects everyone from international threats.

On top of this, a bit of research money to help along a new idea is a drop in the bucket. If people want to complain about subsidies, they should start with the big stuff, not the minutiae of individual grants.

Oh, and the biggest recipient of government subsidies? The oil industry. I had a client whose business model was entirely predicated on taking a tax break for drilling costs that meant that 85 cents of every dollar spent on drilling was tax-deductible. If they strike oil (as they do almost 100% of the time now due to greatly enhanced seismic technology) they pay taxes on the profits, of course, but never have to repay the drilling cost deductible.

So US taxpayers are subsidizing 85% of the drilling costs of Exxon et al. Drill, baby! Drill.

Edited by Ray in Houston (16 Oct 2017 5.01pm)

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

There's a lot of hullaballoo about fracking - most of which is garbage. If you see a video of a guy in Appalachia setting fire to his tap water, it's because he lives on top of thick coal seams that produce methane that leaches into the ground water. It's been like that ever since they started putting down water wells - i.e. over 100 years. Shale gas/oil is thousands of feet below those coal seams and is not the cause of such a party trick.

The real issues with fracking are:

a) The horrendous waste of water, especially as it is typically disposed of by being pumped down disused wells that may be having the effect of lubricating fault lines;

b) The increased amounts of methane released during the process (methane being a significantly worse greenhouse gas than CO2); and

c) The fact that it's producing fossil fuels.

Given that, until Musk gets his s*** together, we need fossil fuels to move around and keep the lights on, we can skip (c). I'm not sure what can be done about (b) - maybe better equipment to capture more methane.

I think (a) is fixed more simply by forcing recycling rather than disposal of water. The technology exists, but it's cheaper to dispose of the water than reuse it, so this is what happens. Moving all that water around - bringing in fresh in addition to shipping out the used - adds to truck traffic on the roads, which increases the carbon footprint of the operation, damages the roads themselves and has been the cause of numerous accidents - many of which have been deadly (and thus expensive). [Link]

Bottom line, though: the direct impact of fracking is no worse than conventional oil drilling, and its practice in the US was the catalyst for the oil price collapse which has lowered energy costs around the world. It's the water, and what they do with it when they're done with it, that's the problem.

Edited by Ray in Houston (16 Oct 2017 8.12pm)

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

Like what?

Nasa's budget is puny compared to when it was working towards traveling to the moon.

It's one percent now....Private companies like SpaceX are another part of the puzzle.....Humanity needs to eventually get off this planet.

If you cede space research to non western entities there is no knowing what technologies they will get to first.

Countries like India are our good friends.....but space research is enlarging around the world.

Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Oct 2017 6.43pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

love these little piccies

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Portillo's teeth removed to boost pound

Boy roasts himself in sacrifice to Chris Kelly

one thing that perturbs me and we all probably saw the news items in the last few months of the dreadful conditions that these young kids are being are being forced to work in these cobalt mines, the very mines where the cobalt is needed to power the EV revolution, the hemp wearing, lentil chomping, latte quaffing limp wristed,left wing liberals all seem to be noticeably quiet when these kind of things are exposed, weird, not surprising though.

Portillo's teeth removed to boost pound

Boy roasts himself in sacrifice to Chris Kelly