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Bulger killer recalled to prison

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 23 Nov 17 5.33pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

Hitler's childhood was screwed up too. No excuses and can't be given as a reason. Even well-brought up and loved kids sometimes commit heinous crimes too.

Well arguably Hitler never actually personally killed anyone. Many people found him very pleasant conversationalist and quite charmingly shy. He certainly wasn't a sociopath or psychopath either.

Its just that often, we blame the 'top man' because its easier than realising that the horrors the state perpetuated were committed by normal, relatively ordinary people.

As a rule, sociopathic and psychopathic individuals don't play well with others.

 


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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 23 Nov 17 5.55pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Well arguably Hitler never actually personally killed anyone. Many people found him very pleasant conversationalist and quite charmingly shy. He certainly wasn't a sociopath or psychopath either.

Its just that often, we blame the 'top man' because its easier than realising that the horrors the state perpetuated were committed by normal, relatively ordinary people.

As a rule, sociopathic and psychopathic individuals don't play well with others.

Other than himself you mean - and possibly Eva? (Oh, and his dog.)

Edited by hedgehog50 (23 Nov 2017 5.56pm)

 


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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 23 Nov 17 6.46pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

This comes down to the question of free will. Sam Harris has some excellent videos on this.

If you were born with the same genetics and had the same upbringing and had met the same people you would be exactly the same as anyone in history.

It's a horrible thought but it makes sense.

All you can do with a certain set of murderers is put a gun to their heads and pull the trigger.....there is no point in hating them, they are products....But I totally understand why we hate them.

Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Nov 2017 7.01pm)

 


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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 23 Nov 17 7.00pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Other than himself you mean - and possibly Eva? (Oh, and his dog.)

Edited by hedgehog50 (23 Nov 2017 5.56pm)

And a decorated 'runner' in the first world war and a chief agitator in the twenties where Nazis and communists were fighting each other and dying every week.

But it matters not....responsible for the death of many millions.

 


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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 23 Nov 17 7.38pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

This comes down to the question of free will. Sam Harris has some excellent videos on this.

If you were born with the same genetics and had the same upbringing and had met the same people you would be exactly the same as anyone in history.

It's a horrible thought but it makes sense.

All you can do with a certain set of murderers is put a gun to their heads and pull the trigger.....there is no point in hating them, they are products....But I totally understand why we hate them.

Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Nov 2017 7.01pm)

I don't agree with that at all. We all have innate character. What about isolated tribes? Siblings there would have had exactly that upbringing above but they won't be identical in personality and clone-like.

 


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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 23 Nov 17 7.42pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Well arguably Hitler never actually personally killed anyone. Many people found him very pleasant conversationalist and quite charmingly shy. He certainly wasn't a sociopath or psychopath either.

Its just that often, we blame the 'top man' because its easier than realising that the horrors the state perpetuated were committed by normal, relatively ordinary people.

As a rule, sociopathic and psychopathic individuals don't play well with others.

Hmmmmmm..pathological narcissism surely has aspects of psychopathy in it.

 


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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 23 Nov 17 9.27pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Kermit8

I don't agree with that at all. We all have innate character. What about isolated tribes? Siblings there would have had exactly that upbringing above but they won't be identical in personality and clone-like.

Watch the Sam Harris videos on free will on YouTube and then get back to me.

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He starts talking about free will at around 3.40 seconds.

Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Nov 2017 10.09pm)

 


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View Michaelawt85's Profile Michaelawt85 Flag Bexley 23 Nov 17 11.08pm Send a Private Message to Michaelawt85 Add Michaelawt85 as a friend

I was very young when they carried out these crimes so know absolutely nothing about the reaction of people to it at the time. I have read about it since. I read the book written by James Bulgers father.

I believe the poor boys genitles were tortured during the murder.

Brings up all sorts of debates about nature vs nurture. Did one boy lead the other into it. Very strange to find two children who would both do something like that. Is this the same boy who was going round telling people who he really was a few years ago?

In summary I believe he was born this way (outside factors such as poor parenting and his environment clearly didn't help) but fundamentally this is part of his genetic make up. I believe paedophiles are born that way and those sexual tendencies are an intrinsic part of who they are. Clearly he is a risk to children and arguably the public in general and in an ideal world would be kept in prison to ensure the safety of others. However this won't happen. Opens a serious debate as to how we manage people like this. Baring in mind we don't have the death penalty (I am sure someone will be along shortly to recommend he's euthanized) so ruling that out what do we do with him?

 


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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 24 Nov 17 1.09am Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Originally posted by Michaelawt85

I was very young when they carried out these crimes so know absolutely nothing about the reaction of people to it at the time. I have read about it since. I read the book written by James Bulgers father.

I believe the poor boys genitles were tortured during the murder.

Brings up all sorts of debates about nature vs nurture. Did one boy lead the other into it. Very strange to find two children who would both do something like that. Is this the same boy who was going round telling people who he really was a few years ago?

In summary I believe he was born this way (outside factors such as poor parenting and his environment clearly didn't help) but fundamentally this is part of his genetic make up. I believe paedophiles are born that way and those sexual tendencies are an intrinsic part of who they are. Clearly he is a risk to children and arguably the public in general and in an ideal world would be kept in prison to ensure the safety of others. However this won't happen. Opens a serious debate as to how we manage people like this. Baring in mind we don't have the death penalty (I am sure someone will be along shortly to recommend he's euthanized) so ruling that out what do we do with him?

some would say that venables should experience something similar to that which he perpetrated upon his victims.

But surely that only reduces the forces of justice down to venables's level.

 


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Brentmiester_General Flag Front line in the battle against t... 24 Nov 17 7.58am

Originally posted by Jimenez

Oh dear. That applies to probably countless thousands of people. Including know doubt a few on here, but that doesn't excuse his behaviour. He should now be locked up for the rest of his life.

It does if already born a psychopath. Which they say make up one percent of the population. Doesn’t always make them evil or a killer. Some go on to be very successful business people. Others who are subjected to abuse and evil as a child invariably go on to be psycopathic killers.
This whole story still turns my stomach. Even more so now that I am a father. It’s clear that the bloke needs locking up and the key being thrown away. He has no self control or respect for other human life. The fact he can live with himself every day after what he did to that poor little boy shows that to me.

 


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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 24 Nov 17 8.10am Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Michaelawt85

I was very young when they carried out these crimes so know absolutely nothing about the reaction of people to it at the time.

The whole nation was horrified for a long, long time even though we didn't know the whole story as much of the gory details were withheld.

I think that if we knew the full details at the time there would have been a public lynching such was the depth of feeling

 

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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 24 Nov 17 8.14am Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Originally posted by Michaelawt85

I was very young when they carried out these crimes so know absolutely nothing about the reaction of people to it at the time. I have read about it since. I read the book written by James Bulgers father.

I believe the poor boys genitles were tortured during the murder.

Brings up all sorts of debates about nature vs nurture. Did one boy lead the other into it. Very strange to find two children who would both do something like that. Is this the same boy who was going round telling people who he really was a few years ago?

In summary I believe he was born this way (outside factors such as poor parenting and his environment clearly didn't help) but fundamentally this is part of his genetic make up. I believe paedophiles are born that way and those sexual tendencies are an intrinsic part of who they are. Clearly he is a risk to children and arguably the public in general and in an ideal world would be kept in prison to ensure the safety of others. However this won't happen. Opens a serious debate as to how we manage people like this. Baring in mind we don't have the death penalty (I am sure someone will be along shortly to recommend he's euthanized) so ruling that out what do we do with him?

I think the fact that so many paedophiles were abused when younger themselves makes that not to be the case for many. If they had had harmless and non-abusive upbringings with positive relationship role models then it must be highly likely that they would end up as the same as us.

Kids who see their parents divorced when young have a higher chance themselves of getting divorced when older. So junior experiences do impact on adult relationships.

 


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