VAR at its worst

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 11 Mar 21 12.50pm
Originally posted by ambrose7 VAR can be a fantastic tool, but referees need their heads banging together over the meaning of 'clear and obvious'. Put simply, they shouldn't be allowed more than ~20 seconds of viewing time and that's only to make sure the best angle gets checked. If they can't make a decision in ~20 seconds, it's evidently not obvious. The point at which a line needs to be slowly shifted back and forth to hit an exact point to make an offside decision, it's evidently not obvious, so just get on with the game. VAR should only ever be in place to deal with the El Hadji Diouf dives, the Aubameyang tackle on Meyer last year - not to turn football into a science. "Clear and obvious" is also a subjective judgement call so open to controversy. One has a situation whereby a referee makes a subjective decision based on whether a foul is a penalty or not and the VAR then making a subjective decision as to whether it is "Clear and obvious".
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 11 Mar 21 12.50pm

Originally posted by ambrose7

VAR can be a fantastic tool, but referees need their heads banging together over the meaning of 'clear and obvious'.

Put simply, they shouldn't be allowed more than ~20 seconds of viewing time and that's only to make sure the best angle gets checked. If they can't make a decision in ~20 seconds, it's evidently not obvious.

The point at which a line needs to be slowly shifted back and forth to hit an exact point to make an offside decision, it's evidently not obvious, so just get on with the game.

VAR should only ever be in place to deal with the El Hadji Diouf dives, the Aubameyang tackle on Meyer last year - not to turn football into a science.

"Clear and obvious" is also a subjective judgement call so open to controversy.
One has a situation whereby a referee makes a subjective decision based on whether a foul is a penalty or not and the VAR then making a subjective decision as to whether it is "Clear and obvious".

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 11 Mar 21 5.25pm
'Top 50 Comedy VAR Decisions', coming to E4 June. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 11 Mar 21 5.25pm

'Top 50 Comedy VAR Decisions', coming to E4 June.

Red and Blue Army!

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ambrose7 Croydon 11 Mar 21 6.39pm
Originally posted by Willo "Clear and obvious" is also a subjective judgement call so open to controversy. One has a situation whereby a referee makes a subjective decision based on whether a foul is a penalty or not and the VAR then making a subjective decision as to whether it is "Clear and obvious". It's subjective, but I think the standard should be so high as to make that subjectiveness fairly obsolete. If it takes more than ~20 seconds of looking at it, I don't think the decision is clearly and obviously wrong. The tool is there to prevent scandals, not to re-referee the game. Take the Soucek red card at Fulham. It evidently wasn't clearly and obviously wrong because it got overturned. That's a referee lowering the decision-making standard. Take the goal Bamford scored against us - is any Palace fan up in arms had that goal been given? The penalty appeal we had at Villa was exactly right. Referee was asked to look at it (not sure why), I myself am thinking 'you could give it, but I'm not up in arms if we don't get it' and the referee rightly said it's not clear and obvious. 26th January 2010 - Enter Administration 2nd May 2010 - D-Day 1 - Survival at Hillsborough 1st June 2010 - D-Day 2 - Survival at Lloyds 7th June 2010 - CPFC2010 exchange contracts.
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ambrose7

Croydon 11 Mar 21 6.39pm

Originally posted by Willo

It's subjective, but I think the standard should be so high as to make that subjectiveness fairly obsolete. If it takes more than ~20 seconds of looking at it, I don't think the decision is clearly and obviously wrong. The tool is there to prevent scandals, not to re-referee the game.

Take the Soucek red card at Fulham. It evidently wasn't clearly and obviously wrong because it got overturned. That's a referee lowering the decision-making standard.

Take the goal Bamford scored against us - is any Palace fan up in arms had that goal been given?

The penalty appeal we had at Villa was exactly right. Referee was asked to look at it (not sure why), I myself am thinking 'you could give it, but I'm not up in arms if we don't get it' and the referee rightly said it's not clear and obvious.

26th January 2010 - Enter Administration
2nd May 2010 - D-Day 1 - Survival at Hillsborough
1st June 2010 - D-Day 2 - Survival at Lloyds
7th June 2010 - CPFC2010 exchange contracts.

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Phil’s Barber Crowborough 11 Mar 21 8.09pm
Originally posted by Goal Machine I agree that offside is a clear rule where subjectivity doesn't come into it, however, we all know the technology at present isn't 100% accurate, so it can't work in its current form. All this arm being offside is a total nonsense and leaves everyone waiting around to possibly do a half celebration. Fouls and handballs will always divide opinion, so lets just stick with the referees original decision and move on. It worked fine before. You will get decisions go far/against you which even themselves out over time. In my opinion, the linesman are pretty good any get 90% of decision correct anyway. I'm not averse to there being a pitch side referee who can overrule a really poor decision - i.e. one that can be seen clearly is an error in one 5 second replay. Not one which requires 2 minutes of slow mo replays from 3 angles to spot a 'clear and obvious error' Wholeheartedly agree. It has already been shown that there is a +/- 14cm ‘margin of error’ due to freeze frame technology. Then there is the subjectivity of the Video Assistant Referee in Shockley Park to decide when the ball is played and then where to draw the lines (Bamford v Palace being the classic example of a huge error). VAR just isn’t fit for purpose to adjudicate on marginal offsides. Not only this but the ludicrous situation we now have, where the assistant referees don’t flag until sometimes almost 40 seconds after the ‘offside’ is another aspect ruining the game as people don’t seem to play on with the same conviction or intensity, knowing or wondering if it is going to be given offside in another minute or so. Someone is also going to be seriously injured in one of the phases of play, for absolutely no reason and when the Assistant Referee could’ve easily flagged for offside, as of old. There will be a huge law-suit and quite rightly so!
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Phil’s Barber

Crowborough 11 Mar 21 8.09pm

Originally posted by Goal Machine

I agree that offside is a clear rule where subjectivity doesn't come into it, however, we all know the technology at present isn't 100% accurate, so it can't work in its current form. All this arm being offside is a total nonsense and leaves everyone waiting around to possibly do a half celebration.

Fouls and handballs will always divide opinion, so lets just stick with the referees original decision and move on.

It worked fine before. You will get decisions go far/against you which even themselves out over time. In my opinion, the linesman are pretty good any get 90% of decision correct anyway. I'm not averse to there being a pitch side referee who can overrule a really poor decision - i.e. one that can be seen clearly is an error in one 5 second replay. Not one which requires 2 minutes of slow mo replays from 3 angles to spot a 'clear and obvious error'

Wholeheartedly agree.

It has already been shown that there is a +/- 14cm ‘margin of error’ due to freeze frame technology. Then there is the subjectivity of the Video Assistant Referee in Shockley Park to decide when the ball is played and then where to draw the lines (Bamford v Palace being the classic example of a huge error).

VAR just isn’t fit for purpose to adjudicate on marginal offsides.

Not only this but the ludicrous situation we now have, where the assistant referees don’t flag until sometimes almost 40 seconds after the ‘offside’ is another aspect ruining the game as people don’t seem to play on with the same conviction or intensity, knowing or wondering if it is going to be given offside in another minute or so.

Someone is also going to be seriously injured in one of the phases of play, for absolutely no reason and when the Assistant Referee could’ve easily flagged for offside, as of old. There will be a huge law-suit and quite rightly so!

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Phil’s Barber Crowborough 11 Mar 21 8.25pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Last night's latest VAR faux-pas really takes the biscuit. The VAR match centre said: "The on-field referee felt that Alex McCarthy got a slight touch on the ball, and VAR couldn't see anything to disprove that." If it can't do that, what possible use is it? As for last nights VAR howler. If VAR isn’t going to give a penalty in that instance, then obviously we might as well not have it and get back to enjoying the game and the excitement we used to have before it’s introduction.
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Phil’s Barber

Crowborough 11 Mar 21 8.25pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Last night's latest VAR faux-pas really takes the biscuit.

The VAR match centre said: "The on-field referee felt that Alex McCarthy got a slight touch on the ball, and VAR couldn't see anything to disprove that."

If it can't do that, what possible use is it?

As for last nights VAR howler.

If VAR isn’t going to give a penalty in that instance, then obviously we might as well not have it and get back to enjoying the game and the excitement we used to have before it’s introduction.

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Goal Machine The Cronx 13 Mar 21 10.18pm
I thought VAR was taken to a new level at today’s game. VARing a possible offside leading to a VAR penalty decision. In effect VARing a VAR. Honestly what has our game become. Such a sorry state of affairs. The enjoyment of football has gone. Found myself far more gripped by the Afghanistan vs Zimbabwe Test match on ‘Freesport’ (don’t even know what that channel is) this morning than I did the Palace match. RIP football
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Goal Machine

The Cronx 13 Mar 21 10.18pm

I thought VAR was taken to a new level at today’s game.

VARing a possible offside leading to a VAR penalty decision. In effect VARing a VAR.

Honestly what has our game become. Such a sorry state of affairs. The enjoyment of football has gone. Found myself far more gripped by the Afghanistan vs Zimbabwe Test match on ‘Freesport’ (don’t even know what that channel is) this morning than I did the Palace match.

RIP football

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Phil’s Barber Crowborough 19 Mar 21 7.20am
Originally posted by steeleye20 Last night's latest VAR faux-pas really takes the biscuit. The VAR match centre said: "The on-field referee felt that Alex McCarthy got a slight touch on the ball, and VAR couldn't see anything to disprove that." If it can't do that, what possible use is it? Interesting article in yesterday’s paper adding some detail as to what happened in the Man City / Southampton Phil Foden non penalty incident. [Link] It is an utter farce. Scott Parker’s interview embedded in the article also sums up how many feel about VAR and how it is removing the excitement and making the game too ‘sterile’.
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Phil’s Barber

Crowborough 19 Mar 21 7.20am

Originally posted by steeleye20

Last night's latest VAR faux-pas really takes the biscuit.

Interesting article in yesterday’s paper adding some detail as to what happened in the Man City / Southampton Phil Foden non penalty incident.

[Link]

It is an utter farce.

Scott Parker’s interview embedded in the article also sums up how many feel about VAR and how it is removing the excitement and making the game too ‘sterile’.

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Phil’s Barber Crowborough 26 Apr 21 11.15am
Originally posted by ASCPFC 'Top 50 Comedy VAR Decisions', coming to E4 June. Another absolutely appalling VAR decision / intervention with the Balbuena sending off for West Ham in their game against Chelsea. Quite possibly one of the most ridiculous red cards ever issued. [Link] I’m looking forward to the news that the sending off has been overturned and that Peter Bankes (VAR) and Chris Kavanagh (Referee) will not be officiating again.
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Phil’s Barber

Crowborough 26 Apr 21 11.15am

Originally posted by ASCPFC

'Top 50 Comedy VAR Decisions', coming to E4 June.

Another absolutely appalling VAR decision / intervention with the Balbuena sending off for West Ham in their game against Chelsea.

Quite possibly one of the most ridiculous red cards ever issued.

[Link]

I’m looking forward to the news that the sending off has been overturned and that Peter Bankes (VAR) and Chris Kavanagh (Referee) will not be officiating again.

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 26 Apr 21 11.45am
Red card for me. If one of our players had been the victim of a contact high on the leg delivered with force, our supporters would have lacerated and pilloried the referee for not sending off the perpetrator. I accept that others will disagree but I will not be persuaded to change my opinion. Edited by Willo (26 Apr 2021 11.46am)
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 26 Apr 21 11.45am

Red card for me.

If one of our players had been the victim of a contact high on the leg delivered with force, our supporters would have lacerated and pilloried the referee for not sending off the perpetrator.

I accept that others will disagree but I will not be persuaded to change my opinion.

Edited by Willo (26 Apr 2021 11.46am)

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Palace Old Geezer Midhurst 26 Apr 21 11.46am
Being a tad old school I preferred the game without VAR. When it was first introduced I was prepared to accept the arguments for eliminating areas of doubt and helping referees to retrospectively take consistent action against obvious foul play they'd missed. But last night's dreadful VAR interventions and subsequent decisions have cemented my beliefs that the whole process needs a thorough overhaul. Dad and I watched games standing on the muddy slope of the Holmesdale Road end. He cheered and I rattled.
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Palace Old Geezer

Midhurst 26 Apr 21 11.46am

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Being a tad old school I preferred the game without VAR.

When it was first introduced I was prepared to accept the arguments for eliminating areas of doubt and helping referees to retrospectively take consistent action against obvious foul play they'd missed.

But last night's dreadful VAR interventions and subsequent decisions have cemented my beliefs that the whole process needs a thorough overhaul.

Dad and I watched games standing on the muddy slope of the Holmesdale Road end. He cheered and I rattled.

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Spiderman Horsham 26 Apr 21 11.59am
Originally posted by Willo Red card for me. If one of our players had been the victim of a contact high on the leg delivered with force, our supporters would have lacerated and pilloried the referee for not sending off the perpetrator. I accept that others will disagree but I will not be persuaded to change my opinion. Edited by Willo (26 Apr 2021 11.46am) You are right, I totally disagree with you! Played the ball fairly, then made contact, which could not be avoided
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Spiderman

Horsham 26 Apr 21 11.59am

Originally posted by Willo

Red card for me.

If one of our players had been the victim of a contact high on the leg delivered with force, our supporters would have lacerated and pilloried the referee for not sending off the perpetrator.

I accept that others will disagree but I will not be persuaded to change my opinion.

Edited by Willo (26 Apr 2021 11.46am)

You are right, I totally disagree with you! Played the ball fairly, then made contact, which could not be avoided

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steeleye20 Croydon 26 Apr 21 12.11pm
Red card for me also. The ref perfectly positioned to see that this was not just a follow through but a deliberate deviation. Full marks to the ref.
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steeleye20

Croydon 26 Apr 21 12.11pm

Red card for me also.

The ref perfectly positioned to see that this was not just a follow through but a deliberate deviation.

Full marks to the ref.

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