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legaleagle Flag 06 Sep 15 10.07am

And you of course Stirling would never seek to stoop so low as to try and score ideological points out of the tragedy of a child's death...


"A YouTube video posted yesterday by a UKIP supporter claims that the Syrian boy who was washed up on a Turkish beach drowned because ‘his father wanted new teeth.' The video has so far been viewed over 400,000 times and also posted by far-right groups.

The video shows a clip from a short Sky News interview to which has been added (not by Sky News) an opening title stating, ‘Syrian boy drowned because his Father wanted new teeth’.

In the brief Sky interview, the boy’s aunt said that that her brother, the little boy’s father, had lost all his teeth. He would need implants, and she was trying to help him, but it would cost a lot of money which she couldn’t send in one go. She explained that the idea was that the family should go to Europe for his kids and a better future, and then they could see about fixing his teeth.

According to news reports, the father had been kidnapped and tortured during the siege of Kobani by Islamic State or another jihadist group, and it's claimed that all of his teeth had been pulled or knocked out. (I am seeking verification of these reports)

I have watched the 2-minute video clip several times and have to ask: why does the father's need for dental treatment change anything about the story of this family's desperate bid to find a place to resettle? How can anyone conclude from this short interview that the little boy, 3-year-old Alan Kurdi, drowned because his father, Abdullah, needed his teeth fixed?

...The family were hoping eventually to start a new life in Canada as they were desperate to leave Turkey, where they had sought refuge for three years, but Turkey wouldn’t let them have exit visas.

The father, Abdullah Kurdi, had first gone on his own to Turkey for a job, leaving behind his wife and 2-year-old son Ghalib and yet-to-be-born Alan at their family home in Kobani. But later Kobani was overrun by ISIS terrorists; a relative of the family was beheaded and the family home was hit by a mortar shell and completely destroyed. Abdullah went to fetch his wife, Rehanna, son Ghalib and newly born Alan to flee Kobani and seek refuge back in Turkey.

Earlier this year ISIS was driven out of Kobani, but this summer ISIS resumed its attacks on the city.

In Turkey the family joined 2.5 million other Syrian refugees, representing the world’s biggest refugee population. The circumstances in Turkey for Syrian refugees is reported to be very difficult.

According to a recent BBC report, Syrian families are forced to live on the streets and many refugees feel there is no future for them there. Large numbers consider they have no option but to take desperate, hazardous measures to escape across the sea, as eventually would the Kurdi family.

As the Kurdi family did not have passports, they were reported to have to register at a ‘temporary protection shelter’ and were not permitted to leave the country. So the family were in a kind of limbo - unable to obtain exit visas from Turkey because they lacked passports, and unable to win asylum elsewhere because they lacked exit visas. It appeared that if they were to leave Turkey it would have to be by illicit means.

The family wanted to escape from Turkey to find a life somewhere else, somewhere better; that’s what many refugees understandably seek to do after weeks, months and often years living in stasis as ‘displaced persons’, where conditions are tough, often with no home-life, no legitimate jobs, no future, no prospects and mostly with no legal or hopeful means of 'moving on'...

...I fail to see how this tragic story of a war-torn desperate Syrian family trying firstly to seek safe refuge in Turkey, and then to seek a new life somewhere else, is at all demeaned, diminished or changed by the fact that the father also required dentistry.

I feel sad that a video has been distributed that tries to undermine the plight, and death, of a family caught up in the most awful, tragic circumstances."

[Link]

Edited by legaleagle (06 Sep 2015 10.17am)

 

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View jcreedy's Profile jcreedy Flag 06 Sep 15 10.31am Send a Private Message to jcreedy Add jcreedy as a friend

Quote leggedstruggle at 06 Sep 2015 12.08am

So we are responsible for the Syrian civil war? Rule 1 - never underestimate the stupidity of the left.


We are partly responsible, as is any country that's been sending weapons to Syria.

 


It was my dream to play for Palace and to make my debut. I've always played for the club so if I'm playing here, I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

- John Bostock (Nov 2007)

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Hoof Hearted 06 Sep 15 10.43am

I don't understand why a picture of a little boy drowned on a beach trumps a report of 71 people, including 4 children suffocated in an airtight re-fridgerated van.

That picture changes nothing.

The "west" will need to intervene more strongly in Syria (and other war torn countries) to return these countries to normality and stem the tide of genuine refugees and the more numerous economic migrants who are just milking a desperate situation to better their lives by heading to their destination of choice.

Countries like Germany are just encouraging more economic migrants by announcing targets of 800,000 places available.

For me Cameron has got it right by offering to take refugees from Syria currently in the camps based there, most of which our aid has funded.

 

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Tom-the-eagle Flag Croydon 06 Sep 15 10.48am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 06 Sep 2015 10.43am

I don't understand why a picture of a little boy drowned on a beach trumps a report of 71 people, including 4 children suffocated in an airtight re-fridgerated van.

That picture changes nothing.

The "west" will need to intervene more strongly in Syria (and other war torn countries) to return these countries to normality and stem the tide of genuine refugees and the more numerous economic migrants who are just milking a desperate situation to better their lives by heading to their destination of choice.

Countries like Germany are just encouraging more economic migrants by announcing targets of 800,000 places available.

For me Cameron has got it right by offering to take refugees from Syria currently in the camps based there, most of which our aid has funded.


Could not agree more Hoof

 


"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit

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View sickboy's Profile sickboy Flag Deal or Croydon 06 Sep 15 10.55am Send a Private Message to sickboy Add sickboy as a friend

Quote Tom-the-eagle at 06 Sep 2015 10.48am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 06 Sep 2015 10.43am

I don't understand why a picture of a little boy drowned on a beach trumps a report of 71 people, including 4 children suffocated in an airtight re-fridgerated van.

That picture changes nothing.

The "west" will need to intervene more strongly in Syria (and other war torn countries) to return these countries to normality and stem the tide of genuine refugees and the more numerous economic migrants who are just milking a desperate situation to better their lives by heading to their destination of choice.

Countries like Germany are just encouraging more economic migrants by announcing targets of 800,000 places available.

For me Cameron has got it right by offering to take refugees from Syria currently in the camps based there, most of which our aid has funded.


Could not agree more Hoof


I second that. Every time it gets pointed out that these people become migrants once they have reached the first safe country they get to it seems to be ignored by some people and the pseudo political point scoring starts again.

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 06 Sep 15 11.14am

Quote leggedstruggle at 06 Sep 2015 12.08am

Quote corkery at 05 Sep 2015 9.39pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 05 Sep 2015 7.51pm

Quote Tom-the-eagle at 05 Sep 2015 6.14pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 05 Sep 2015 6.06pm

Quote Kermit8 at 05 Sep 2015 5.19pm

The total population of northern western europe is 280million. If we all mucked in and took in 1million in total refugees from Syria then that is merely a 0.3% increase spread out over 6 or 7 countries.

We will cope. They cannot.

The total population of arab countries is 389 million. If they all mucked in and took in 1 million in total of refugees from Syria then that is a mere 0.25% increase spread out over about 22 countries.

They will cope. We cannot.

But as you and I know Legged, its not about going to a SAFE country - its about going to a RICH country.

Many arab countries are rich - Qatar is considered to be the richest in the world.


Why should Qatar take them? They didn't bring 'Freedom' to the Middle East.

So we are responsible for the Syrian civil war? Rule 1 - never underestimate the stupidity of the left.

No, but we are in a position to help those who's lives are destroyed by it.


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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View oldcodger's Profile oldcodger Flag 06 Sep 15 11.44am Send a Private Message to oldcodger Add oldcodger as a friend

Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 Sep 2015 11.14am

Quote leggedstruggle at 06 Sep 2015 12.08am

Quote corkery at 05 Sep 2015 9.39pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 05 Sep 2015 7.51pm

Quote Tom-the-eagle at 05 Sep 2015 6.14pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 05 Sep 2015 6.06pm

Quote Kermit8 at 05 Sep 2015 5.19pm

The total population of northern western europe is 280million. If we all mucked in and took in 1million in total refugees from Syria then that is merely a 0.3% increase spread out over 6 or 7 countries.

We will cope. They cannot.

The total population of arab countries is 389 million. If they all mucked in and took in 1 million in total of refugees from Syria then that is a mere 0.25% increase spread out over about 22 countries.

They will cope. We cannot.

But as you and I know Legged, its not about going to a SAFE country - its about going to a RICH country.

Many arab countries are rich - Qatar is considered to be the richest in the world.


Why should Qatar take them? They didn't bring 'Freedom' to the Middle East.

So we are responsible for the Syrian civil war? Rule 1 - never underestimate the stupidity of the left.

No, but we are in a position to help those who's lives are destroyed by it.


But why would we want to transform the lives of thousands of people in life and death situations when it might marginally bite into the booze budget of those lucky enough to be born here?

Of course I'm being facetious, but my central point is that it makes a much bigger difference to help, by fighting ISIS and 'also' doing our bit taking refugees in, than it does not bothering.

Edited by oldcodger (06 Sep 2015 11.46am)

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 06 Sep 15 11.46am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote legaleagle at 06 Sep 2015 10.07am

And you of course Stirling would never seek to stoop so low as to try and score ideological points out of the tragedy of a child's death...

Edited by legaleagle (06 Sep 2015 10.17am)


No I wouldn't.

All my posts related to this boy have been in response to left wingers who have used this situation to misrepresent an argument.

This little boy's death and most of his family's death upset me. As has the whole drowning Med situation.

I have on several times stated that this country should always look to save people from drowning in the Med where practical.

Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Sep 2015 11.48am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 06 Sep 15 11.54am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 Sep 2015 11.14am


No, but we are in a position to help those who's lives are destroyed by it.



This country is helping, and more than most.

Let Germany, Sweden and whoever else believes in 'freedom of movement' take them in.

We will take a set asylum number and no more.

We can't house our own.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 06 Sep 15 11.55am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote oldcodger at 06 Sep 2015 11.44am


But why would we want to transform the lives of thousands of people in life and death situations when it might marginally bite into the booze budget of those lucky enough to be born here?

Of course I'm being facetious, but my central point is that it makes a much bigger difference to help, by fighting ISIS and 'also' doing our bit taking refugees in, than it does not bothering.

Edited by oldcodger (06 Sep 2015 11.46am)

Taking refugees increases the problem.

They should be catered for in camps paid for by the UN...Which we pay towards more than most.


Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Sep 2015 12.01pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 06 Sep 15 11.59am Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

tell you who has been let off lightly. Bloody Putin. If he hadn't been so obstructive and supportive of Assad and his murderous cronies the initial people's uprising would probably have succeeded four years ago.

Then No Syrian-based IS, no refugee crisis and so much less upheaval.

Thanks, Vladimir.

 


Big chest and massive boobs

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View JohnyBoy's Profile JohnyBoy Flag 06 Sep 15 12.01pm Send a Private Message to JohnyBoy Add JohnyBoy as a friend

Quote legaleagle at 06 Sep 2015 10.07am

And you of course Stirling would never seek to stoop so low as to try and score ideological points out of the tragedy of a child's death...


"A YouTube video posted yesterday by a UKIP supporter claims that the Syrian boy who was washed up on a Turkish beach drowned because ‘his father wanted new teeth.' The video has so far been viewed over 400,000 times and also posted by far-right groups.

The video shows a clip from a short Sky News interview to which has been added (not by Sky News) an opening title stating, ‘Syrian boy drowned because his Father wanted new teeth’.

In the brief Sky interview, the boy’s aunt said that that her brother, the little boy’s father, had lost all his teeth. He would need implants, and she was trying to help him, but it would cost a lot of money which she couldn’t send in one go. She explained that the idea was that the family should go to Europe for his kids and a better future, and then they could see about fixing his teeth.

According to news reports, the father had been kidnapped and tortured during the siege of Kobani by Islamic State or another jihadist group, and it's claimed that all of his teeth had been pulled or knocked out. (I am seeking verification of these reports)

I have watched the 2-minute video clip several times and have to ask: why does the father's need for dental treatment change anything about the story of this family's desperate bid to find a place to resettle? How can anyone conclude from this short interview that the little boy, 3-year-old Alan Kurdi, drowned because his father, Abdullah, needed his teeth fixed?

...The family were hoping eventually to start a new life in Canada as they were desperate to leave Turkey, where they had sought refuge for three years, but Turkey wouldn’t let them have exit visas.

The father, Abdullah Kurdi, had first gone on his own to Turkey for a job, leaving behind his wife and 2-year-old son Ghalib and yet-to-be-born Alan at their family home in Kobani. But later Kobani was overrun by ISIS terrorists; a relative of the family was beheaded and the family home was hit by a mortar shell and completely destroyed. Abdullah went to fetch his wife, Rehanna, son Ghalib and newly born Alan to flee Kobani and seek refuge back in Turkey.

Earlier this year ISIS was driven out of Kobani, but this summer ISIS resumed its attacks on the city.

In Turkey the family joined 2.5 million other Syrian refugees, representing the world’s biggest refugee population. The circumstances in Turkey for Syrian refugees is reported to be very difficult.

According to a recent BBC report, Syrian families are forced to live on the streets and many refugees feel there is no future for them there. Large numbers consider they have no option but to take desperate, hazardous measures to escape across the sea, as eventually would the Kurdi family.

As the Kurdi family did not have passports, they were reported to have to register at a ‘temporary protection shelter’ and were not permitted to leave the country. So the family were in a kind of limbo - unable to obtain exit visas from Turkey because they lacked passports, and unable to win asylum elsewhere because they lacked exit visas. It appeared that if they were to leave Turkey it would have to be by illicit means.

The family wanted to escape from Turkey to find a life somewhere else, somewhere better; that’s what many refugees understandably seek to do after weeks, months and often years living in stasis as ‘displaced persons’, where conditions are tough, often with no home-life, no legitimate jobs, no future, no prospects and mostly with no legal or hopeful means of 'moving on'...

...I fail to see how this tragic story of a war-torn desperate Syrian family trying firstly to seek safe refuge in Turkey, and then to seek a new life somewhere else, is at all demeaned, diminished or changed by the fact that the father also required dentistry.

I feel sad that a video has been distributed that tries to undermine the plight, and death, of a family caught up in the most awful, tragic circumstances."

[Link]

Edited by legaleagle (06 Sep 2015 10.17am)


Brilliant post legal, shows how far the right wing press will go to justify the indefensible. Just shames me to think we live in this beautiful country with everything and indeed much more than we need, but have to share it with some who clearly lack any form of conscience or sense of humanity guided by a Gorbals level of propoganda press that keeps them locked in a perpetual cycle of anxiety, depression, bigotry and selfishness. If they took just one moment to look at and appreciate what they have they may realise that its not the perpetual striving after money and possessions that would make them happy but rather being able to give back

 

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