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Stirlingsays 15 Jul 16 5.46pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 No. It has everything to do with a very specific part of Islam which is adhered to by a tiny but violently in your face dangerous minority. Forget the other Muslims and the Islam they follow. They are not the real enemy even if we find some aspects of their religion noxious. Surely this is just rehashed left wing dogma on Islam. You clearly haven't read the Qu'ran and Kermy you appear to be ignoring surveys taken of the views of Muslims. Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Jul 2016 5.59pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

15 Jul 16 5.46pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

No. It has everything to do with a very specific part of Islam which is adhered to by a tiny but violently in your face dangerous minority.

Forget the other Muslims and the Islam they follow. They are not the real enemy even if we find some aspects of their religion noxious.

Surely this is just rehashed left wing dogma on Islam.

You clearly haven't read the Qu'ran and Kermy you appear to be ignoring surveys taken of the views of Muslims.

Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Jul 2016 5.59pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 15 Jul 16 5.53pm
Originally posted by on me shed son I don't think so, do you have a source for that? Read anything on the reformation and counter-reformation. Anything on the reign of Mary Tudor in England, anything on the Spanish Inquisition amongst much else. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 15 Jul 16 5.53pm

Originally posted by on me shed son

I don't think so, do you have a source for that?

Read anything on the reformation and counter-reformation. Anything on the reign of Mary Tudor in England, anything on the Spanish Inquisition amongst much else.

Red and Blue Army!

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on me shed son Krakow 15 Jul 16 5.56pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC Read anything on the reformation and counter-reformation. Anything on the reign of Mary Tudor in England, anything on the Spanish Inquisition amongst much else. That was mainly to do with heresy though, I was referring to your claim that people were burned for not learning bible verses.
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on me shed son

Krakow 15 Jul 16 5.56pm

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Originally posted by ASCPFC

Read anything on the reformation and counter-reformation. Anything on the reign of Mary Tudor in England, anything on the Spanish Inquisition amongst much else.

That was mainly to do with heresy though, I was referring to your claim that people were burned for not learning bible verses.

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Stirlingsays 15 Jul 16 5.58pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 Is this not a practical solution from my earlier post? Said it before: the military and world governments have to directly target the extreme and terrorist-inclined sects of Islam. There are Wahhabi schools in places like Indonesia that at this minute are brainwashing children to have a 'martyr's' end. The problem - not for me - is of course is that we would have to upset Saudi Arabia. Some would call that impractical but I am not sure entirely why apart from the oil side of it. How on earth do you 'target' foreign schools? And you suggest that all this would do is 'upset' Saudi Arabia and that wouldn't matter. Maybe you prefer Iran's brand of Islam.....yeah no problems with them are there....love us to death. It's a joke that you apparently think that without Wahhabism that westerners would be safe. Wahhabism is the 'cover term' that westerners use to reassure themselves that there is one malignant strain of Islam. Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Jul 2016 6.01pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

15 Jul 16 5.58pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

Is this not a practical solution from my earlier post?

Said it before: the military and world governments have to directly target the extreme and terrorist-inclined sects of Islam. There are Wahhabi schools in places like Indonesia that at this minute are brainwashing children to have a 'martyr's' end.

The problem - not for me - is of course is that we would have to upset Saudi Arabia. Some would call that impractical but I am not sure entirely why apart from the oil side of it.

How on earth do you 'target' foreign schools?

And you suggest that all this would do is 'upset' Saudi Arabia and that wouldn't matter.

Maybe you prefer Iran's brand of Islam.....yeah no problems with them are there....love us to death.

It's a joke that you apparently think that without Wahhabism that westerners would be safe. Wahhabism is the 'cover term' that westerners use to reassure themselves that there is one malignant strain of Islam.

Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Jul 2016 6.01pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 15 Jul 16 6.01pm
Originally posted by on me shed son That was mainly to do with heresy though, I was referring to your claim that people were burned for not learning bible verses. The tests for religious conformity often comprised of memorising and reciting specific Bible phrases - not even ones with much significance in some cases. And many people were illiterate. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 15 Jul 16 6.01pm

Originally posted by on me shed son

That was mainly to do with heresy though, I was referring to your claim that people were burned for not learning bible verses.

The tests for religious conformity often comprised of memorising and reciting specific Bible phrases - not even ones with much significance in some cases. And many people were illiterate.

Red and Blue Army!

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elgrande bedford 15 Jul 16 6.12pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC Read anything on the reformation and counter-reformation. Anything on the reign of Mary Tudor in England, anything on the spanish Inquisition amongst much else. No one expected the Spanish inquisition..... always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.
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elgrande

bedford 15 Jul 16 6.12pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

Read anything on the reformation and counter-reformation. Anything on the reign of Mary Tudor in England, anything on the spanish Inquisition amongst much else.

No one expected the Spanish inquisition.....

always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

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Stirlingsays 15 Jul 16 6.14pm
Originally posted by on me shed son That was mainly to do with heresy though, I was referring to your claim that people were burned for not learning bible verses. The difference is you can't point to the Bible and find a justification for it. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

15 Jul 16 6.14pm

Originally posted by on me shed son

That was mainly to do with heresy though, I was referring to your claim that people were burned for not learning bible verses.

The difference is you can't point to the Bible and find a justification for it.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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on me shed son Krakow 15 Jul 16 6.15pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC The tests for religious conformity often comprised of memorising and reciting specific Bible phrases - not even ones with much significance in some cases. And many people were illiterate. But technically they were being burned for the heresy rather than the bible verses thing. The Catholic Curch wasn't too keen on allowing people access to the bible in any case. Nevertheless I get your point. But we as a society have moved past this now and it's not relevant to outside threats to our way of life.
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on me shed son

Krakow 15 Jul 16 6.15pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

The tests for religious conformity often comprised of memorising and reciting specific Bible phrases - not even ones with much significance in some cases. And many people were illiterate.

But technically they were being burned for the heresy rather than the bible verses thing. The Catholic Curch wasn't too keen on allowing people access to the bible in any case. Nevertheless I get your point. But we as a society have moved past this now and it's not relevant to outside threats to our way of life.

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Kermit8 Hevon 15 Jul 16 7.35pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays How on earth do you 'target' foreign schools? And you suggest that all this would do is 'upset' Saudi Arabia and that wouldn't matter. Maybe you prefer Iran's brand of Islam.....yeah no problems with them are there....love us to death. It's a joke that you apparently think that without Wahhabism that westerners would be safe. Wahhabism is the 'cover term' that westerners use to reassure themselves that there is one malignant strain of Islam. Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Jul 2016 6.01pm) Al Qaeda - followers of Wahhabi. ISIS followers of Wahhabi. Al Shabab followers of Wahhabi, etc. You really need to engage your brain a bit more and stop being so very -phobic. You may not like Iran but they sure as hell have nothing to do with groups like the above nor do they threaten Westerners with genocide. You have an agenda I get it. But anyone with even a smidging of intelligence will see thru' it for what it is. You don't even seem to have the wherewithal to realise trying to besmirch muslims generally as you are doing is exactly what the extremists want for recruitment purposes. If we had a 'like' button on Hol ISIS would give you the thumbs up. Edited by Kermit8 (15 Jul 2016 7.58pm) Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 15 Jul 16 7.35pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

How on earth do you 'target' foreign schools?

And you suggest that all this would do is 'upset' Saudi Arabia and that wouldn't matter.

Maybe you prefer Iran's brand of Islam.....yeah no problems with them are there....love us to death.

Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Jul 2016 6.01pm)

Al Qaeda - followers of Wahhabi. ISIS followers of Wahhabi. Al Shabab followers of Wahhabi, etc.

You really need to engage your brain a bit more and stop being so very -phobic. You may not like Iran but they sure as hell have nothing to do with groups like the above nor do they threaten Westerners with genocide.

You have an agenda I get it. But anyone with even a smidging of intelligence will see thru' it for what it is.

You don't even seem to have the wherewithal to realise trying to besmirch muslims generally as you are doing is exactly what the extremists want for recruitment purposes.

If we had a 'like' button on Hol ISIS would give you the thumbs up.

Edited by Kermit8 (15 Jul 2016 7.58pm)

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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leifandersonshair Newport 15 Jul 16 7.45pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger They won't. They are stuck in a perpetual medieval world perpetuated by the religion itself and they aren't alone. I'm really not interested in bulls* religion and the whys and wherefores of it. I just want to protect innocent citizens by all means necessary**. We need to stop people from carrying out these attacks and I don't care what passport they carry or if their mum is nice. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (15 Jul 2016 5.25pm) And that right there is the problem. Plenty of governments, of all stripes, have used exactly that excuse for really quite monstrous measures. Japanese internment by the Americans in WWII, for example. Now, I don't think (I hope not!) that you are suggesting a 'round them all up' solution. Do we have to stop these people? Hell yes. Will coming down on an entire section of society, be it religious group or racial origin, help, or make matters worse? A multi level approach is required- the carrot of educating and drawing away the support of extremists, and the stick for those that won't be moved. I genuinely think this process has begun, but might take years to actually see the impact. There are too many poor, disenfranchised young men too easily seduced by the arguments of a 'greater cause' when modern life and society offers nothing (to their point of view). The same factors draw similarly disenfranchised and poor young white men to the EDL and other far right groups. Offering a cause. Oh, and 'lone wolf' attacks really do exist. And there really is very little we can do to stop them in advance. Raoul Moat is a recent one that springs to mind.
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leifandersonshair

Newport 15 Jul 16 7.45pm

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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

They won't.

They are stuck in a perpetual medieval world perpetuated by the religion itself and they aren't alone.

I'm really not interested in bulls*** religion and the whys and wherefores of it. I just want to protect innocent citizens by all means necessary. We need to stop people from carrying out these attacks and I don't care what passport they carry or if their mum is nice.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (15 Jul 2016 5.25pm)

And that right there is the problem. Plenty of governments, of all stripes, have used exactly that excuse for really quite monstrous measures. Japanese internment by the Americans in WWII, for example.

Now, I don't think (I hope not!) that you are suggesting a 'round them all up' solution. Do we have to stop these people? Hell yes. Will coming down on an entire section of society, be it religious group or racial origin, help, or make matters worse?

A multi level approach is required- the carrot of educating and drawing away the support of extremists, and the stick for those that won't be moved. I genuinely think this process has begun, but might take years to actually see the impact. There are too many poor, disenfranchised young men too easily seduced by the arguments of a 'greater cause' when modern life and society offers nothing (to their point of view).

The same factors draw similarly disenfranchised and poor young white men to the EDL and other far right groups. Offering a cause.

Oh, and 'lone wolf' attacks really do exist. And there really is very little we can do to stop them in advance. Raoul Moat is a recent one that springs to mind.

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Stirlingsays 15 Jul 16 8.26pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 Al Qaeda - followers of Wahhabi. ISIS followers of Wahhabi. Al Shabab followers of Wahhabi, etc. You really need to engage your brain a bit more and stop being so very -phobic. You may not like Iran but they sure as hell have nothing to do with groups like the above nor do they threaten Westerners with genocide. You have an agenda I get it. But anyone with even a smidging of intelligence will see thru' it for what it is. You don't even seem to have the wherewithal to realise trying to besmirch muslims generally as you are doing is exactly what the extremists want for recruitment purposes. If we had a 'like' button on Hol ISIS would give you the thumbs up. Edited by Kermit8 (15 Jul 2016 7.58pm) Kermy you telling me to engage my brain is a joke..... You thinking that only supporters of Wahhabism kill westerners. You just don't know what you're talking about. Like I say you repeat a 'cover term' that people like you repeat out of ignorance and for simplicity. Muslims who never followed Wahhabism nor were official members of Sunni terrorist groups have murdered plenty of westerners.....In your head they are obviously all Wahhabists. I repeat your view of Islam is ill informed and awash with left wing dogma. Read and research what you refer to.....there's probably little chance of that. As for 'besmirching Muslims'....that's another joke. Just research the views of Muslims around the world. Research the Qu'ran and the hadiths. Look at the continuing driving away of Jews in this country and Europe. I resent your caricature and have no problems with Muslims who wish to live in peace and have supported Kurdish charities in the past....But there are serious problems within Islamic communities within the west and you are apart of the problem that buries its head in the sand over it. Instead you blame the people who can see the problem. Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Jul 2016 8.27pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

15 Jul 16 8.26pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

Al Qaeda - followers of Wahhabi. ISIS followers of Wahhabi. Al Shabab followers of Wahhabi, etc.

You have an agenda I get it. But anyone with even a smidging of intelligence will see thru' it for what it is.

You don't even seem to have the wherewithal to realise trying to besmirch muslims generally as you are doing is exactly what the extremists want for recruitment purposes.

If we had a 'like' button on Hol ISIS would give you the thumbs up.

Edited by Kermit8 (15 Jul 2016 7.58pm)

Kermy you telling me to engage my brain is a joke..... You thinking that only supporters of Wahhabism kill westerners. You just don't know what you're talking about. Like I say you repeat a 'cover term' that people like you repeat out of ignorance and for simplicity. Muslims who never followed Wahhabism nor were official members of Sunni terrorist groups have murdered plenty of westerners.....In your head they are obviously all Wahhabists.

I repeat your view of Islam is ill informed and awash with left wing dogma. Read and research what you refer to.....there's probably little chance of that.

As for 'besmirching Muslims'....that's another joke. Just research the views of Muslims around the world. Research the Qu'ran and the hadiths. Look at the continuing driving away of Jews in this country and Europe.

I resent your caricature and have no problems with Muslims who wish to live in peace and have supported Kurdish charities in the past....But there are serious problems within Islamic communities within the west and you are apart of the problem that buries its head in the sand over it.

Instead you blame the people who can see the problem.

Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Jul 2016 8.27pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 15 Jul 16 8.32pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 Al Qaeda - followers of Wahhabi. ISIS followers of Wahhabi. Al Shabab followers of Wahhabi, etc. You really need to engage your brain a bit more and stop being so very -phobic. You may not like Iran but they sure as hell have nothing to do with groups like the above nor do they threaten Westerners with genocide. You have an agenda I get it. But anyone with even a smidging of intelligence will see thru' it for what it is. You don't even seem to have the wherewithal to realise trying to besmirch muslims generally as you are doing is exactly what the extremists want for recruitment purposes. If we had a 'like' button on Hol ISIS would give you the thumbs up. Edited by Kermit8 (15 Jul 2016 7.58pm) Apparently 'death to America', isn't threatening the west.....Apparently terrorist groups like Hezbollah aren't anything to worry about.....of course when they threaten genocide on Jews this apparently has nothing to do with the west. Yeah...keep burying your head further into that sand Kermy. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

15 Jul 16 8.32pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

Al Qaeda - followers of Wahhabi. ISIS followers of Wahhabi. Al Shabab followers of Wahhabi, etc.

You have an agenda I get it. But anyone with even a smidging of intelligence will see thru' it for what it is.

You don't even seem to have the wherewithal to realise trying to besmirch muslims generally as you are doing is exactly what the extremists want for recruitment purposes.

If we had a 'like' button on Hol ISIS would give you the thumbs up.

Edited by Kermit8 (15 Jul 2016 7.58pm)

Apparently 'death to America', isn't threatening the west.....Apparently terrorist groups like Hezbollah aren't anything to worry about.....of course when they threaten genocide on Jews this apparently has nothing to do with the west.

Yeah...keep burying your head further into that sand Kermy.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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