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legaleagle Flag 11 Oct 14 10.32pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 11 Oct 2014 9.42pm

Quote TUX at 11 Oct 2014 9.24pm

I'm not blaming NatWest as an example bud, just the private ones that own the US Federal Reserve and the Bank of England.
Dig deeper



You mean, dig deeper and find absolutely no evidence at all.

No evidence other than the usual paranoid unprovable narratives that some people create because they think that everything......they perceive to be negative, has shadowy malign actors behind it.

I initially thought he was wrong too, Stirling. But credit where credit's due,it seems he's right..

"The Bank Of England was originally a private bank, which contracted to lend money to the British Government in a financial crisis. It was privately owned at its foundation and remained so until the post-war Labour government nationalised it in 1946.

So it is owned by the government?

No.

Here is how Wikipedia explains it.


In 1977, the Bank set up a wholly owned subsidiary called Bank of England Nominees Limited, (BOEN), a private limited company, with 2 of its 100 £1 shares issued. According to its Memorandum & Articles of Association, its objectives are:- “To act as Nominee or agent or attorney either solely or jointly with others, for any person or persons, partnership, company, corporation, government, state, organisation, sovereign, province, authority, or public body, or any group or association of them….”

Bank of England Nominees Limited was granted an exemption by Edmund Dell, Secretary of State for Trade, from the disclosure requirements under Section 27(9) of the Companies Act 1976 , because, “it was considered undesirable that the disclosure requirements should apply to certain categories of shareholders.” The Bank of England is also protected by its Royal Charter status, and the Official Secrets Act.

In other words, you and I are not allowed to know who the shareholders are who own the company which carries out Central Banking in the UK. Some people say that Mandelson's buddies, the Rothschilds are major shareholders. Also the Queen. But the information is secret. We are not allowed to know.

But what would surprise everybody is that the Bank Of England, which is entitled to issue cash, then lend it and charge interest to the government, is still essentially a private business.

What would also surprise people is so is the Federal Reserve of America a privately owned bank, and all central banks of the world, including the Bank for International Settlements (BIS) in Switzerland, which is the Central Banks' clearing house."

Edited by legaleagle (11 Oct 2014 10.37pm)

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 11 Oct 14 10.39pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote legaleagle at 11 Oct 2014 10.06pm

In terms of the benefits to the non-Iraqi oil industry of the invasion of Iraq, worth reading the following from CNN, hardly a prime anti-American outlet.

[Link]

CNN hardly an anti-American outlet.....Hahahaha! Oh come on.....It's as far as America get to a TV version of the Guardian.

Do you know the breakdown in profits of Iraq's oil and who gets what?

From the wiki page concerning Iraq's oil:
[Link]

'On June 30 and December 11, 2009, the Iraqi Ministry of Oil awarded contracts to international oil companies for some of Iraq's many oil fields. The winning oil companies entered joint ventures with the Iraqi Ministry of Oil, and the terms of the awarded contracts include extraction of oil for a fixed gain of .40 per barrel for the oil companies with the remainder going to Iraq'

So one dollar forty a barrel and Iraq take the rest.....What's a barrel sell for? forty fifty dollars a barrel?

Like I say.....People sing the say old tired nonsense because it's more about what they want to be true rather than what is.

Do you actually know that America gets nothing form Iraqi oil sales? You probably didn't.......Their oil companies lost the contracts in 2009....The US doesn't even get money from Iraqi oil.

[Link]

Some powerful control the US has over Iraq then?....All those powerful actors behind the scenes apparently couldn't negotiate contracts worth a long term bean.

If the US had really done Iraq for oil it would have never allowed the freedom within the oil contracts and would never have allowed the Iraqi government to hand the contracts to China and Russia......It's a sick joke.

The whole war for oil mantra is misinformed nonsense.

Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Oct 2014 10.42pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 11 Oct 14 10.46pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

War is a very profitable business for some members of the elite, especially in the US and especially for those Republicans who are part of that very wealthy gang. Iraq wasn't about freedom, weapons or revenge for 9/11. It was about opportunity and a lovely metaphor for capitalism.

Pity those poor parents who lost their kids for nothing.

 


Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]


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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 11 Oct 14 10.48pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote legaleagle at 11 Oct 2014 10.32pm

I initially thought he was wrong too, Stirling. But credit where credit's due,it seems he's right..


Did you think that when I said that he was wrong that I was referring to whether or not the Bank of England is privately owned?

It's irrelevant as to the causes of the war......unless you're a conspiracy theorist.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 11 Oct 14 10.49pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Quote Stirlingsays at 11 Oct 2014 10.39pm

Quote legaleagle at 11 Oct 2014 10.06pm

In terms of the benefits to the non-Iraqi oil industry of the invasion of Iraq, worth reading the following from CNN, hardly a prime anti-American outlet.

[Link]

CNN hardly an anti-American outlet.....Hahahaha! Oh come on.....It's as far as America get to a TV version of the Guardian.

Do you know the breakdown in profits of Iraq's oil and who gets what?

From the wiki page concerning Iraq's oil:
[Link]

'On June 30 and December 11, 2009, the Iraqi Ministry of Oil awarded contracts to international oil companies for some of Iraq's many oil fields. The winning oil companies entered joint ventures with the Iraqi Ministry of Oil, and the terms of the awarded contracts include extraction of oil for a fixed gain of .40 per barrel for the oil companies with the remainder going to Iraq'

So one dollar forty a barrel and Iraq take the rest.....What's a barrel sell for? forty fifty dollars a barrel?

Like I say.....People sing the say old tired nonsense because it's more about what they want to be true rather than what is.

Do you actually know that America gets nothing form Iraqi oil sales? You probably didn't.......Their oil companies lost the contracts in 2009....The US doesn't even get money from Iraqi oil.

[Link]

Some powerful control the US has over Iraq then?....All those powerful actors behind the scenes apparently couldn't negotiate contracts worth a long term bean.

If the US had really done Iraq for oil it would have never allowed the freedom within the oil contracts and would never have allowed the Iraqi government to hand the contracts to China and Russia......It's a sick joke.

The whole war for oil mantra is misinformed nonsense.

Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Oct 2014 10.42pm)


You need to be looking at which US companies profited 2003-2009 and how much from being in Iraq not from the last few years. That was the time of the profit rush.

 


Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]


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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 11 Oct 14 10.53pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote Kermit8 at 11 Oct 2014 10.46pm

War is a very profitable business for some members of the elite, especially in the US and especially for those Republicans who are part of that very wealthy gang. Iraq wasn't about freedom, weapons or revenge for 9/11. It was about opportunity and a lovely metaphor for capitalism.

Pity those poor parents who lost their kids for nothing.


Thousands of people die of neglect every day and hardly anyone bats an eyelid.....Apart from a relatively few wonderful souls.

I agree that Iraq was done because there was a window for it......But it was hardly done for capitalism.

The war cost and lost America a vast ocean of money.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 11 Oct 14 10.56pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Quote Stirlingsays at 11 Oct 2014 10.53pm

Quote Kermit8 at 11 Oct 2014 10.46pm

War is a very profitable business for some members of the elite, especially in the US and especially for those Republicans who are part of that very wealthy gang. Iraq wasn't about freedom, weapons or revenge for 9/11. It was about opportunity and a lovely metaphor for capitalism.

Pity those poor parents who lost their kids for nothing.


Thousands of people die of neglect every day and hardly anyone bats an eyelid.....Apart from a relatively few wonderful souls.

I agree that Iraq was done because there was a window for it......But it was hardly done for capitalism.

The war cost and lost America a vast ocean of money.


That was public money. The guys behind it made shedloads for their business friends.

Edited by Kermit8 (11 Oct 2014 10.57pm)

 


Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]


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legaleagle Flag 11 Oct 14 10.56pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 11 Oct 2014 10.39pm

Quote legaleagle at 11 Oct 2014 10.06pm

In terms of the benefits to the non-Iraqi oil industry of the invasion of Iraq, worth reading the following from CNN, hardly a prime anti-American outlet.

[Link]

CNN hardly an anti-American outlet.....Hahahaha! Oh come on.....It's as far as America get to a TV version of the Guardian.

Do you know the breakdown in profits of Iraq's oil and who gets what?

From the wiki page concerning Iraq's oil:
[Link]

'On June 30 and December 11, 2009, the Iraqi Ministry of Oil awarded contracts to international oil companies for some of Iraq's many oil fields. The winning oil companies entered joint ventures with the Iraqi Ministry of Oil, and the terms of the awarded contracts include extraction of oil for a fixed gain of .40 per barrel for the oil companies with the remainder going to Iraq'

So one dollar forty a barrel and Iraq take the rest.....What's a barrel sell for? forty fifty dollars a barrel?

Like I say.....People sing the say old tired nonsense because it's more about what they want to be true rather than what is.

Do you actually know that America gets nothing form Iraqi oil sales? You probably didn't.......Their oil companies lost the contracts in 2009....The US doesn't even get money from Iraqi oil.

[Link]

Some powerful control the US has over Iraq then?....All those powerful actors behind the scenes apparently couldn't negotiate contracts worth a long term bean.

If the US had really done Iraq for oil it would have never allowed the freedom within the oil contracts and would never have allowed the Iraqi government to hand the contracts to China and Russia......It's a sick joke.

The whole war for oil mantra is misinformed nonsense.

Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Oct 2014 10.42pm)

I fear you may be the one who is misinformed.I'd say it speaks for itself as a factor, regardless of whether you might think there are others. Amount of Iraqi oil revenue to potentially go externally pre-invasion; zero. Amounts post invasion; somewhat very much larger than zero.

As for "nonsense", I see you equate an outlet, CNN, which might be on the more liberal (in American terms, less right wing) end of the particular spectrum in question as being "anti-American".This says much about your outlook . Akin to equating any healthy debate within a liberal democracy on government policies and aims, as being anti-American. Senator Joe McCarthy would be proud of you.

You then take that lovely analysis across and apply it to the Guardian by analogy. Get a life! It may espouse views you don't like and raise issues you don't like, but anti-British....boy, your views and mine of what might be anti-British and outside the democratic give and take of a liberal democracy, sure are different.Next thing you know it'll be anti British not to want taxi drivers to have a wear uniforms, like in UKIP's last election manifesto.

Incidentally, I was in the US when the troops went into Iraq, watching CNN. "Anti-American" coverage? My asre.


Edited by legaleagle (11 Oct 2014 11.05pm)

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 11 Oct 14 10.58pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote Kermit8 at 11 Oct 2014 10.49pm

You need to be looking at which US companies profited 2003-2009 and how much from being in Iraq not from the last few years. That was the time of the profit rush.

Kermy I've given you the profit breakdown per barrel......It's all there.

Iraq made....by vast amounts the most money per barrel.....Iraq awarded the contracts......Iraq took the contracts away.

Why.....If as you and others have stated that this war was...at least partly done for oil.....Why and how on earth would the US allow a tiny amount of profit per barrel?

Why would they allow the Iraqi government even the chance to take the contracts away?

The war cost to the US hasn't even even been touched by oil money.

It's the mantra of the misinformed.


Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Oct 2014 10.59pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View TUX's Profile TUX Flag redhill 11 Oct 14 11.03pm Send a Private Message to TUX Add TUX as a friend

Quote Stirlingsays at 11 Oct 2014 10.02pm

The Iraq war happened for the following reasons (in my opinion).

Thw twin towers came down.......This changed the mindset of the Bush presidency.

Beforehand Bush wasn't interested in foreign wars or conflicts.....This is well known to anyone who remembers his time before election and his early presidency.

This wasn't unknown in the Republican party (the party of isolationists) but given that neo cons headed a lot of the top positions in the party it wasn't the usual republican position either.

After the twin towers came down the neo cons around Bush gained huge traction....People forget with the passage of time the amount of rage and resolve for action once the shock had flatted out.

Once those towers came down Bush's previous views on foreign policy completely changed and he in affect became a neo con and listened and adopted the philosophy.

Now this isn't the place for discussing the motivations and beliefs of neo conservatism....but in short that philosophy pushes for active involvement in the middle east to change the power dynamics to better suit the west and lessen the ultimate chance of WW3.

Hence Bush came to believe that weak regimes that still stood against the west and were up for grabs militarily were there for the taking. Iraq was a thorn in the side and he took the opportunity for what he thought was an easy win.

What actually happened was a war....initially a very successful one militarily speaking.....But with a disastrous and incompetent aftermath.

Anyway that's the real series of events and motivations....while money and attributing out contracts was a sideline it wasn't in any way an motivation for war.......war costs big bucks.....No nation takes it on lightly.......And Bush miscalculated how long Iraq would last.

Anyway the neo con detractors say that's all hog wash and that it was purely an exercise in money making that cared not a jot for human misery.....I recognise that intervention does create that but I dismiss their caricatures.

Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Oct 2014 10.09pm)


Do your history regarding the Bush family.


 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 11 Oct 14 11.07pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote legaleagle at 11 Oct 2014 10.56pm

I fear you may be the one who is misinformed.I'd say it speaks for itself as a factor, regardless of whether you might think there are others.

As for "nonsense", I see you equate an outlet within a country which might be on the more liberal (in American terms, less right wing) end of the particular spectrum in question as being "anti-American", says much more about your outlook than mine. Akin to equating any healthy debate within a liberal democracy on government policies and aims, as being anti-American. Senator McCarthy would be proud of you.

You then take that lovely analysis across and apply it to the Guardian by analogy. Get a life! It may espouse views you don't like and raise issues you don't like, but anti-British....boy, your views and mine of what might be anti-British and outside the democratic give and take of a liberal democracy, sure are different to mine.Next thing you know it'll be anti British not to want taxi drivers to have a wear uniforms, like in UKIP's last election manifesto.

Incidentally, I was in the US when the troops went into Iraq, watching CNN. "Anti-American" coverage? My asre.



I provide you with facts me lad and in reply you focus on my dismissal of your characterization of CNN.

Of course CNN isn't anti American.....You used those words to describe what you feel CNN isn't. I simply stated the fact that in US terms it's about as left wing as they get....While admittedly finding amusement in your depiction of CNN.

How unusual for you to be watching CNN legal.

I was always interested in the claims of people about the motivations for the Iraqi war.....So I actually researched it....You see my arguments in the post.

I refer to facts legal.....Not quotes or biased narrative.

Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Oct 2014 11.08pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 11 Oct 14 11.11pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote TUX at 11 Oct 2014 11.03pm

Do your history regarding the Bush family.



Yeah because people who know the Bush family history, their oil connections and so on....Well they believe your narrative.

Oh please, I probably know more about them than you do.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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