Tony Blair and Dubya are living the life of Riley.

I feel sorry for all the allied armed forces who've been placed into areas of danger, due to political incompetence. Especially those killed or injured.

It's politicians like Cameron/Clegg and Obama who now have to sort out the shlt left behind when Bush and Blair had no defined mission statement or exit strategy.
Now Allied ground troops will be required again, in far larger quantities. It's 'when', not 'if'.

Money that could have been better spent at home, rather than deploying soldiers. Then setting up 'Help for Heroes' charidee, rather than paying these service people the compensation they fully deserve from Government funds.

Edited by Forest Hillbilly (09 Oct 2014 8.55am)

"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

"I saw something extreme and horrible on the TV 12 years ago and this means that governments have never and will never attempt to use fear to influence the public. Anyone saying otherwise is mad".

More anger than argument.

For one you're incorrect but to add a bit of colour to the black and white...

there clearly needs to be a balance between security and liberty in any country. Who could argue against that? Freedoms are fought for not given. Governments shift over time too, sometimes in directions that are worrisome or against the interests of the population. We are not exempt from that happening and need to keep it in mind when we patronise people for caring about such matters. Just because people with more guts than us fought for you to sit around drinking tea while failing to acknowledge complexities of power and politics it doesn't mean that we all feel the need to stifle debate.

Edited by sanitycheck (10 Oct 2014 12.29am)

I think that certain countries certainly took advantage of those events to implement an agenda that otherwise would have been impossible. The US could never have implemented something as broadly curtailing of civil liberties in the US as the patriot act without 9-11. Certainly, manufacturing the consent for the Iraq invasion was dependent on that event.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

You are right. The decision after 9/11 to go into Iraq had no justification whatsoever under the "war on terror" and was a convenient way to lump in (and get public support for) Republican foreign policy aspirations in the region alongside (understandable) revulsion at 9/11 and a desire to respond...

But, we are where we are.. and yes must remain vigilant against any further such "cons"(and yes of course they still abound). But, as to whether that means there is no reason, here and now, to be very concerned about jihadi salafism and the consequences of its rise in various parts of the globe including Iraq and Syria , is another matter... The genie is well and truly out of the bottle...whoever might have contributed to that to date...

Personally, I find the present cynical actions of the Turkish government beyond sick....in terms of projecing ISIS and the Kurds as twin evils and standing by (on their own border) while just over the border it looks like the clocks are going to be changed to go back a few hundred years, and once again the Kurds get it in the neck.

Edited by legaleagle (10 Oct 2014 8.42am)

^^^^^

smells like no pun limit

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

That moustache just had to go.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)