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TheJudge  19 Aug 15 9.25pm |
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Quote pefwin at 19 Aug 2015 8.27pm
Quote leggedstruggle at 19 Aug 2015 7.58pm
Quote pefwin at 19 Aug 2015 7.46pm
Quote leggedstruggle at 19 Aug 2015 7.12pm
Quote pefwin at 19 Aug 2015 7.06pm
Quote leggedstruggle at 19 Aug 2015 7.00pm
Quote pefwin at 19 Aug 2015 6.55pm
Quote leggedstruggle at 19 Aug 2015 6.39pm
Quote fed up eagle at 19 Aug 2015 6.14pm
ISIS are just a bunch of neanderthals who haven't evolved. If anyone goes out to fight they must not be allowed back in and have their passports confiscated. Don't you realise these 'British' people who scuttle off to Syria for a spot of beheading have been ‘groomed’ by radical Islamists. A word which immediately confers victim status upon whoever it is who has been ‘groomed’. They are also of course ‘vulnerable’. Words which have been co-opted by the liberal left to mean whatever they want them to mean - surprised that Leagleagle does not use them more often in his posts. So if these people do come back, I expect they will be offered counselling - and probably Legal's spare room.
Good - it was meant to.
They could be mass murders like Shipman but they are still British; or is it more "cultural"? Certainly Shipman was British. People with foreign 'heritage' who go off to fight for enemies of this country - I say fight, but it is more beheading helpless people, burning people alive in cages and raping women. No, I don't regard them as British; I very much doubt that they regard themselves as British. After all, Geroge Orwell was born in Indian, neither he nor the Indians regarded him as Indian. What is a "foreign heritage"? Who does it require inverted commas? Because it is one of the words which have been co-opted by the liberal left establishment to mean whatever they want them to mean. Why what does it mean then, yo you? What does British mean? It seems that you cannot define; what your perceived, enemies, the left, think it means. Can you be British but yet be a descendent of a slave of the British Empire? If so, do we owe these loyal British people reparations? The more relevant question is, do they think they are British ? It seems to me that patriotism is rather important. The people we are discussing are immigrants or first generation British with a religion and culture which is not in line with the vast majority of the country. Their loyalties seem to be to their motherland or religion rather than the country they live in.
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 davenotamonkey 19 Aug 15 10.09pm |
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Quote pefwin at 19 Aug 2015 8.27pm
Quote leggedstruggle at 19 Aug 2015 7.58pm
Quote pefwin at 19 Aug 2015 7.46pm
Quote leggedstruggle at 19 Aug 2015 7.12pm
Quote pefwin at 19 Aug 2015 7.06pm
Quote leggedstruggle at 19 Aug 2015 7.00pm
Quote pefwin at 19 Aug 2015 6.55pm
Quote leggedstruggle at 19 Aug 2015 6.39pm
Quote fed up eagle at 19 Aug 2015 6.14pm
ISIS are just a bunch of neanderthals who haven't evolved. If anyone goes out to fight they must not be allowed back in and have their passports confiscated. Don't you realise these 'British' people who scuttle off to Syria for a spot of beheading have been ‘groomed’ by radical Islamists. A word which immediately confers victim status upon whoever it is who has been ‘groomed’. They are also of course ‘vulnerable’. Words which have been co-opted by the liberal left to mean whatever they want them to mean - surprised that Leagleagle does not use them more often in his posts. So if these people do come back, I expect they will be offered counselling - and probably Legal's spare room.
Good - it was meant to.
They could be mass murders like Shipman but they are still British; or is it more "cultural"? Certainly Shipman was British. People with foreign 'heritage' who go off to fight for enemies of this country - I say fight, but it is more beheading helpless people, burning people alive in cages and raping women. No, I don't regard them as British; I very much doubt that they regard themselves as British. After all, Geroge Orwell was born in Indian, neither he nor the Indians regarded him as Indian. What is a "foreign heritage"? Who does it require inverted commas? Because it is one of the words which have been co-opted by the liberal left establishment to mean whatever they want them to mean. Why what does it mean then, yo you? What does British mean? It seems that you cannot define; what your perceived, enemies, the left, think it means. Can you be British but yet be a descendent of a slave of the British Empire? If so, do we owe these loyal British people reparations?
(nice shotgun approach to punctuation there, by the way)
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| legaleagle 19 Aug 15 10.24pm |
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Quote TheJudge at 19 Aug 2015 9.25pm
The more relevant question is, do they think they are British ? .................................................... I disagree.I think the starting point for any sensible and reasoned discussion of the topic is what it means today to be British.How would you define being British in the UK in 2015? The question of why some young people with certain beliefs decide to go off and fight for ISIS is of course, also pertinent,though worth not overlooking that some are converts to Islam and those doing so are a very small minority of a particular religious group.So,we don't want to fall into the simplistic trap of tarring a whole group with their "sins".That would be as simplistic as,for example,those who attributed characteristics to all Jewish people in the UK in the mid-late 40's when a small minority might have gone off to fight for the Stern Gang and their acts of "terrorist" violence in Palestine against "British rule".The same applied to Irish people/their kids living here in the 1970's at the time of Provo bombings. The questions of what rights and obligations attach to being British is also not irrelevant though we must be careful not to apply different standards to some people as opposed to others. Comments like "idiot left" don't assist a reasoned discussion.Reasoned points and responses do. Edited by legaleagle (19 Aug 2015 10.26pm)
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 20 Aug 15 8.58am |
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As a rule, and law, I think its safe to regard people who run off to fight for IS as criminals, they're still British, if they have been born here etc, but I personally believe they have proclaimed themselves enemies of humanity, and unless can prove otherwise, should be facing criminal charges and sentences based on their actions.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| legaleagle 20 Aug 15 9.16am |
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I don't disagree they are in breach of the law and I don't disagree with a law making it an offence to go and fight for ISIS.But remember its not "unless they can prove otherwise".The basis of the law in all criminal matters is that its for "the Crown" to prove its case in respect of any individual beyond a reasonable doubt. Though we have to be very careful in what circumstances we do or don't make it a criminal offence to go overseas and fight in a war per se.
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| leggedstruggle Croydon 20 Aug 15 9.26am |
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Quote legaleagle at 19 Aug 2015 10.24pm
Quote TheJudge at 19 Aug 2015 9.25pm
The more relevant question is, do they think they are British ? .................................................... I disagree.I think the starting point for any sensible and reasoned discussion of the topic is what it means today to be British.How would you define being British in the UK in 2015? The question of why some young people with certain beliefs decide to go off and fight for ISIS is of course, also pertinent,though worth not overlooking that some are converts to Islam and those doing so are a very small minority of a particular religious group.So,we don't want to fall into the simplistic trap of tarring a whole group with their "sins".That would be as simplistic as,for example,those who attributed characteristics to all Jewish people in the UK in the mid-late 40's when a small minority might have gone off to fight for the Stern Gang and their acts of "terrorist" violence in Palestine against "British rule".The same applied to Irish people/their kids living here in the 1970's at the time of Provo bombings. The questions of what rights and obligations attach to being British is also not irrelevant though we must be careful not to apply different standards to some people as opposed to others. Comments like "idiot left" don't assist a reasoned discussion.Reasoned points and responses do. Edited by legaleagle (19 Aug 2015 10.26pm) Thanks for the extra list of enemies of Britain, examples of the success of multi-culturalism presumably?
mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler |
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| legaleagle 20 Aug 15 10.35am |
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Apologies,I forgot that anyone of a different race,religion or ethnicity living here is a de facto "enemy"
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 20 Aug 15 10.41am |
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Quote legaleagle at 20 Aug 2015 9.16am
I don't disagree they are in breach of the law and I don't disagree with a law making it an offence to go and fight for ISIS.But remember its not "unless they can prove otherwise".The basis of the law in all criminal matters is that its for "the Crown" to prove its case in respect of any individual beyond a reasonable doubt. Though we have to be very careful in what circumstances we do or don't make it a criminal offence to go overseas and fight in a war per se. Well yes of course, they are entitled to a fair trial etc.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| leggedstruggle Croydon 20 Aug 15 10.44am |
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Quote legaleagle at 20 Aug 2015 10.35am
Apologies,I forgot that anyone of a different race,religion or ethnicity living here is a de facto "enemy" Just those that are actually enemies, like the ones you listed - and their fellow travellers.
mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler |
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| dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 20 Aug 15 10.44am |
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ISIS are cunce end of thread.
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 20 Aug 15 10.44am |
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Quote davenotamonkey at 19 Aug 2015 10.09pm
Quote pefwin at 19 Aug 2015 8.27pm
Quote leggedstruggle at 19 Aug 2015 7.58pm
Quote pefwin at 19 Aug 2015 7.46pm
Quote leggedstruggle at 19 Aug 2015 7.12pm
Quote pefwin at 19 Aug 2015 7.06pm
Quote leggedstruggle at 19 Aug 2015 7.00pm
Quote pefwin at 19 Aug 2015 6.55pm
Quote leggedstruggle at 19 Aug 2015 6.39pm
Quote fed up eagle at 19 Aug 2015 6.14pm
ISIS are just a bunch of neanderthals who haven't evolved. If anyone goes out to fight they must not be allowed back in and have their passports confiscated. Don't you realise these 'British' people who scuttle off to Syria for a spot of beheading have been ‘groomed’ by radical Islamists. A word which immediately confers victim status upon whoever it is who has been ‘groomed’. They are also of course ‘vulnerable’. Words which have been co-opted by the liberal left to mean whatever they want them to mean - surprised that Leagleagle does not use them more often in his posts. So if these people do come back, I expect they will be offered counselling - and probably Legal's spare room.
Good - it was meant to.
They could be mass murders like Shipman but they are still British; or is it more "cultural"? Certainly Shipman was British. People with foreign 'heritage' who go off to fight for enemies of this country - I say fight, but it is more beheading helpless people, burning people alive in cages and raping women. No, I don't regard them as British; I very much doubt that they regard themselves as British. After all, Geroge Orwell was born in Indian, neither he nor the Indians regarded him as Indian. What is a "foreign heritage"? Who does it require inverted commas? Because it is one of the words which have been co-opted by the liberal left establishment to mean whatever they want them to mean. Why what does it mean then, yo you? What does British mean? It seems that you cannot define; what your perceived, enemies, the left, think it means. Can you be British but yet be a descendent of a slave of the British Empire? If so, do we owe these loyal British people reparations?
(nice shotgun approach to punctuation there, by the way) The term multiculturalism stems from New Labour, but is not a left wing concept, its origins are liberalism. If you are going to use terms like 'the idiot left' please make sure you attribute concepts that really are left wing (New Labour pushed the term Mulitculturalism into main stream use, the were a right of center government).
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 20 Aug 15 10.48am |
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Quote dannyh at 20 Aug 2015 10.44am
ISIS are cunce end of thread. Indeed, I don't think anyone really disagrees.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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