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 Seth  On a pale blue dot 08 Dec 14 5.00pm |
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Quote Pawson Palace at 08 Dec 2014 4.56pm
Quote Seth at 08 Dec 2014 4.36pm
Quote Pussay Troll at 07 Dec 2014 11.18pm
It's a proven fact low tax economies raise more tax overall.
He might support Oxford but obviously didn't go to uni there (or anywhere else I expect) otherwise he'd have a bit better idea about economics. He also wouldn't feel the need to lecture those of us who actually live in London, and not leafy Oxfordshire like him, about the levels of immigration which have apparently "swamped" areas of London, which he probably only reads about in the Daily Mail.
I can't remember the chaps name but will see if I can dig something up. If memory served, he argued a lower rate of income tax increases spending thus more demand for growth and tax collected through VAT and Corp tax as people enjoyed a better standard of living. Was quiet interesting actually but was busy doing other things when I had it on.
"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down" |
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jamiemartin721  Reading 08 Dec 14 5.01pm |
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Quote matt_himself at 08 Dec 2014 4.55pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Dec 2014 4.46pm
I don't think people are against the idea of paying tax, rather they're more against the way in which its spent (or wasted) on things like vanity projects and political egotism.
I am not for the dismantling of public services but I think a dosage of private sector keeping costs down management will be of benefit to all concerned. How many paracetamol in the packet, what size and what strength? Is that the cost of the drugs, or the cost of dispensing the drug to patients in A+E or hospitals (when you figure in other costs). The private sector isn't as efficient as people tend to think either, and in many cases are a reason why government costs can be much higher. Government services will always cost more than the private counter parts, because the public will insist on higher standards in regards to operations and responsibility, which results in greater expenditure.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Stuk Top half 08 Dec 14 5.20pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Dec 2014 5.01pm
Quote matt_himself at 08 Dec 2014 4.55pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Dec 2014 4.46pm
I don't think people are against the idea of paying tax, rather they're more against the way in which its spent (or wasted) on things like vanity projects and political egotism.
I am not for the dismantling of public services but I think a dosage of private sector keeping costs down management will be of benefit to all concerned. How many paracetamol in the packet, what size and what strength? Is that the cost of the drugs, or the cost of dispensing the drug to patients in A+E or hospitals (when you figure in other costs). The private sector isn't as efficient as people tend to think either, and in many cases are a reason why government costs can be much higher. Government services will always cost more than the private counter parts, because the public will insist on higher standards in regards to operations and responsibility, which results in greater expenditure.
Not to mention being far more efficient, at anything.
Optimistic as ever |
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| Seth On a pale blue dot 08 Dec 14 5.53pm |
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Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 5.20pm
Firstly the public, for the most part, wouldn't have a clue about quality or standards.
I expect better of you Stuk, I really do.
"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down" |
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| Stuk Top half 08 Dec 14 8.24pm |
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Quote Seth at 08 Dec 2014 5.53pm
Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 5.20pm
Firstly the public, for the most part, wouldn't have a clue about quality or standards.
I expect better of you Stuk, I really do.
What we expect is the best that can be done within the respective budgets and don't "insist" on anything.
Optimistic as ever |
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| Seth On a pale blue dot 09 Dec 14 12.39am |
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Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 8.24pm
Quote Seth at 08 Dec 2014 5.53pm
Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 5.20pm
Firstly the public, for the most part, wouldn't have a clue about quality or standards.
I expect better of you Stuk, I really do.
What we expect is the best that can be done within the respective budgets and don't "insist" on anything. It bloody well is. Our "own knowledge" will contain experiences from many different contacts with health and other services here and in other countries over a lifetime. I reckon most people will be able to tell if they're getting high standards or not. I think I can and I think most other people can too. I've used private medical care on occasion and yes there's a lot more money in it but it's not always the best and sometimes the NHS has to mend the mistakes they make. One example of how privatised and deregulated services harm the NHS: [Link] I think we should "insist" on the best medical care our collective money can buy and not accept the privatisation of our NHS, which has been shown to the the most efficient health service in the world [Link] The NHS is publically funded, is the best in the world, and needs to stay that way, for the health of all of us.
"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down" |
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| Stuk Top half 09 Dec 14 1.36pm |
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Quote Seth at 09 Dec 2014 12.39am
Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 8.24pm
Quote Seth at 08 Dec 2014 5.53pm
Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 5.20pm
Firstly the public, for the most part, wouldn't have a clue about quality or standards.
I expect better of you Stuk, I really do.
What we expect is the best that can be done within the respective budgets and don't "insist" on anything. It bloody well is. Our "own knowledge" will contain experiences from many different contacts with health and other services here and in other countries over a lifetime. I reckon most people will be able to tell if they're getting high standards or not. I think I can and I think most other people can too. I've used private medical care on occasion and yes there's a lot more money in it but it's not always the best and sometimes the NHS has to mend the mistakes they make. One example of how privatised and deregulated services harm the NHS: [Link] I think we should "insist" on the best medical care our collective money can buy and not accept the privatisation of our NHS, which has been shown to the the most efficient health service in the world [Link] The NHS is publically funded, is the best in the world, and needs to stay that way, for the health of all of us. Don't be so melodramatic. The volume of public services is so vast that none of us would have a clue about 90% of it. Do you know the highest quality tarmac, trains, CAT scanners, lamp posts etc? No, you don't. He said the highest standards, not just high standards. No idea why you're going into a rant about the NHS, which I didn't even mention, but to say it is the best in the world, over and above any other country and/or every private facility is nonsense. Patriotic, but nonsense.
Optimistic as ever |
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Johnny Eagles  berlin 09 Dec 14 1.47pm |
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Quote Stuk at 09 Dec 2014 1.36pm
Quote Seth at 09 Dec 2014 12.39am
Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 8.24pm
Quote Seth at 08 Dec 2014 5.53pm
Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 5.20pm
Firstly the public, for the most part, wouldn't have a clue about quality or standards.
I expect better of you Stuk, I really do.
What we expect is the best that can be done within the respective budgets and don't "insist" on anything. It bloody well is. Our "own knowledge" will contain experiences from many different contacts with health and other services here and in other countries over a lifetime. I reckon most people will be able to tell if they're getting high standards or not. I think I can and I think most other people can too. I've used private medical care on occasion and yes there's a lot more money in it but it's not always the best and sometimes the NHS has to mend the mistakes they make. One example of how privatised and deregulated services harm the NHS: [Link] I think we should "insist" on the best medical care our collective money can buy and not accept the privatisation of our NHS, which has been shown to the the most efficient health service in the world [Link] The NHS is publically funded, is the best in the world, and needs to stay that way, for the health of all of us. Don't be so melodramatic. The volume of public services is so vast that none of us would have a clue about 90% of it. Do you know the highest quality tarmac, trains, CAT scanners, lamp posts etc? No, you don't. He said the highest standards, not just high standards. No idea why you're going into a rant about the NHS, which I didn't even mention, but to say it is the best in the world, over and above any other country and/or every private facility is nonsense. Patriotic, but nonsense.
...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread... |
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| Stuk Top half 09 Dec 14 2.23pm |
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Quote Johnny Eagles at 09 Dec 2014 1.47pm
Quote Stuk at 09 Dec 2014 1.36pm
Quote Seth at 09 Dec 2014 12.39am
Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 8.24pm
Quote Seth at 08 Dec 2014 5.53pm
Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 5.20pm
Firstly the public, for the most part, wouldn't have a clue about quality or standards.
I expect better of you Stuk, I really do.
What we expect is the best that can be done within the respective budgets and don't "insist" on anything. It bloody well is. Our "own knowledge" will contain experiences from many different contacts with health and other services here and in other countries over a lifetime. I reckon most people will be able to tell if they're getting high standards or not. I think I can and I think most other people can too. I've used private medical care on occasion and yes there's a lot more money in it but it's not always the best and sometimes the NHS has to mend the mistakes they make. One example of how privatised and deregulated services harm the NHS: [Link] I think we should "insist" on the best medical care our collective money can buy and not accept the privatisation of our NHS, which has been shown to the the most efficient health service in the world [Link] The NHS is publically funded, is the best in the world, and needs to stay that way, for the health of all of us. Don't be so melodramatic. The volume of public services is so vast that none of us would have a clue about 90% of it. Do you know the highest quality tarmac, trains, CAT scanners, lamp posts etc? No, you don't. He said the highest standards, not just high standards. No idea why you're going into a rant about the NHS, which I didn't even mention, but to say it is the best in the world, over and above any other country and/or every private facility is nonsense. Patriotic, but nonsense.
Optimistic as ever |
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| Seth On a pale blue dot 09 Dec 14 3.00pm |
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Quote Stuk at 09 Dec 2014 1.36pm
Quote Seth at 09 Dec 2014 12.39am
Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 8.24pm
Quote Seth at 08 Dec 2014 5.53pm
Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 5.20pm
Firstly the public, for the most part, wouldn't have a clue about quality or standards.
I expect better of you Stuk, I really do.
What we expect is the best that can be done within the respective budgets and don't "insist" on anything. It bloody well is. Our "own knowledge" will contain experiences from many different contacts with health and other services here and in other countries over a lifetime. I reckon most people will be able to tell if they're getting high standards or not. I think I can and I think most other people can too. I've used private medical care on occasion and yes there's a lot more money in it but it's not always the best and sometimes the NHS has to mend the mistakes they make. One example of how privatised and deregulated services harm the NHS: [Link] I think we should "insist" on the best medical care our collective money can buy and not accept the privatisation of our NHS, which has been shown to the the most efficient health service in the world [Link] The NHS is publically funded, is the best in the world, and needs to stay that way, for the health of all of us. Don't be so melodramatic. The volume of public services is so vast that none of us would have a clue about 90% of it. Do you know the highest quality tarmac, trains, CAT scanners, lamp posts etc? No, you don't. He said the highest standards, not just high standards. No idea why you're going into a rant about the NHS, which I didn't even mention, but to say it is the best in the world, over and above any other country and/or every private facility is nonsense. Patriotic, but nonsense. This all came from your exchange with jamie which was about the cost to the NHS of a box of paracetamol. So we're talking about the NHS, not tarmac, lampposts or anything else. He actually said "higher standards" not the "highest standards". I've never heard of the European Health Consumer Index, but the report Johnny linked to conflicts with the Commonwealth Fund, whose findings I posted a link to a report about, who said the NHS was the most efficient in the world.
"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down" |
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| Johnny Eagles berlin 09 Dec 14 3.12pm |
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Quote Seth at 09 Dec 2014 3.00pm
Quote Stuk at 09 Dec 2014 1.36pm
Quote Seth at 09 Dec 2014 12.39am
Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 8.24pm
Quote Seth at 08 Dec 2014 5.53pm
Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 5.20pm
Firstly the public, for the most part, wouldn't have a clue about quality or standards.
I expect better of you Stuk, I really do.
What we expect is the best that can be done within the respective budgets and don't "insist" on anything. It bloody well is. Our "own knowledge" will contain experiences from many different contacts with health and other services here and in other countries over a lifetime. I reckon most people will be able to tell if they're getting high standards or not. I think I can and I think most other people can too. I've used private medical care on occasion and yes there's a lot more money in it but it's not always the best and sometimes the NHS has to mend the mistakes they make. One example of how privatised and deregulated services harm the NHS: [Link] I think we should "insist" on the best medical care our collective money can buy and not accept the privatisation of our NHS, which has been shown to the the most efficient health service in the world [Link] The NHS is publically funded, is the best in the world, and needs to stay that way, for the health of all of us. Don't be so melodramatic. The volume of public services is so vast that none of us would have a clue about 90% of it. Do you know the highest quality tarmac, trains, CAT scanners, lamp posts etc? No, you don't. He said the highest standards, not just high standards. No idea why you're going into a rant about the NHS, which I didn't even mention, but to say it is the best in the world, over and above any other country and/or every private facility is nonsense. Patriotic, but nonsense. This all came from your exchange with jamie which was about the cost to the NHS of a box of paracetamol. So we're talking about the NHS, not tarmac, lampposts or anything else. He actually said "higher standards" not the "highest standards". I've never heard of the European Health Consumer Index, but the report Johnny linked to conflicts with the Commonwealth Fund, whose findings I posted a link to a report about, who said the NHS was the most efficient in the world.
The NHS does lots of good stuff but I find the efficiency claim very surprising, given how centralised it is. The European Health Consumer Index is a regularly produced report by one of the leading providers of information about international healthcare. I used to work in healthcare marketing by the way. Before you think I'm sad enough to spend my free time reading these sorts of reports.
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| Seth On a pale blue dot 09 Dec 14 3.26pm |
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Quote Johnny Eagles at 09 Dec 2014 3.12pm
Most efficient using what criteria? Do you mind posting it again or tell me exactly where I can find it? The NHS does lots of good stuff but I find the efficiency claim very surprising, given how centralised it is. The European Health Consumer Index is a regularly produced report by one of the leading providers of information about international healthcare. I used to work in healthcare marketing by the way. Before you think I'm sad enough to spend my free time reading these sorts of reports.
I'm no expert and you obviously have a professional interest in this subject, but I do find it irritating when the NHS is attacked from the right, especially when the people doing the attacking have a vested interest in privatising our system because they want to make a profit from it. I'm not tarring you with that brush by the way and wonder what you make of the Commonwealth Fund report, if you can be sad enough to read another one Edited by Seth (09 Dec 2014 3.27pm)
"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down" |
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