Ched Evans saga part ???

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Kingvagabond London 08 Jan 15 1.56pm
One of the foremost people on my Twitter TL screaming for Ched Evans to apologise just followed up with "There you have it, must be guilty. I'd never apologise for something I hadn't done". Part of Holmesdale Radio: The Next Generation @KingvagabondHOL Quote cornwalls palace at 24 Oct 2012 9.37am He was right!!!...and we killed him!!... poor Orpinton Eagles........
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Kingvagabond

London 08 Jan 15 1.56pm

One of the foremost people on my Twitter TL screaming for Ched Evans to apologise just followed up with "There you have it, must be guilty. I'd never apologise for something I hadn't done".

Part of Holmesdale Radio: The Next Generation
@KingvagabondHOL

Quote cornwalls palace at 24 Oct 2012 9.37am

He was right!!!...and we killed him!!... poor Orpinton Eagles........

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Sg Bilko Deurne Holland 08 Jan 15 2.49pm
Quote Ketteridge at 08 Jan 2015 11.59am Doesn't matter if I think he is guilty or not the court found him guilty after weighing up all available evidence so unless he wins the review he is a convicted rapist, so any debate on his guilt or otherwise is immaterial to the debate of whether he should play professionally again. His conviction is not relevant to the type of employment he is seeking,. To deny him that employment is to punish him twice for the same offence. He hasn't shown remorse but he would have served additional time for this, so again he would be punished for same offence twice. I would not like to see him at Palace but the law is the law and it is not for me to pick or choose who it should apply to, he has served his time and should be allowed to return to his employment as any other convicted rapist would be. So the real questions is are footballers role models and if the are what level of transgression will deny them entry into the profession. Very true, it's a disgrace that idiots make the sort of threats to clubs that are being made, the police need to trace those people down and give them some of the same medicine Evans received for his crime, have they never heard of the rehabilitation of offenders.
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Sg Bilko

Deurne Holland 08 Jan 15 2.49pm

Quote Ketteridge at 08 Jan 2015 11.59am

Doesn't matter if I think he is guilty or not the court found him guilty after weighing up all available evidence so unless he wins the review he is a convicted rapist, so any debate on his guilt or otherwise is immaterial to the debate of whether he should play professionally again.

His conviction is not relevant to the type of employment he is seeking,. To deny him that employment is to punish him twice for the same offence.
He hasn't shown remorse but he would have served additional time for this, so again he would be punished for same offence twice.
I would not like to see him at Palace but the law is the law and it is not for me to pick or choose who it should apply to, he has served his time and should be allowed to return to his employment as any other convicted rapist would be.
So the real questions is are footballers role models and if the are what level of transgression will deny them entry into the profession.

Very true, it's a disgrace that idiots make the sort of threats to clubs that are being made, the police need to trace those people down and give them some of the same medicine Evans received for his crime, have they never heard of the rehabilitation of offenders.

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Kingvagabond London 08 Jan 15 3.05pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Jan 2015 11.32am Quote Kingvagabond at 08 Jan 2015 11.14am Quote derby eagle at 08 Jan 2015 7.40am Quote Stirlingsays at 08 Jan 2015 2.06am Being someone who helped run a pub for five years in their twenties and spent a time as a bouncer in nightclubs and in both instances saw quite a bit of stuff I'm inherently suspicious of the certainties that Jamie and others have as too this ladies capabilities. This case to me is rife with possibilities.....What I can know from the evidence is that this guy Ched is a t***...I can say that it's possible that he raped this girl. What I can't say with reasonable certainty is that he did.....From what I've heard of the evidence this conviction should never have stood. But it's atypical with where the courts are heading with rape. Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Jan 2015 2.17am) A jury seemed quite comfortable convicting him and they sat through all of the evidence. No one here did. There is jo new evidence, so there is very little chance of this being overturned and neither should it be. Unless of course every time a conviction is against our own inclination it gets overturned if the majority of the public don't like it as well. The arrogant cvnt is guilty, get over it and move on. Here's the ironic thing, they didn't seem quite comfortable convicting him. There was no unanimous decision and so jury was informed that he would accept majority verdict. They were then told that both cases were completely different and despite it being a joint verdict they could give different outcomes for Donaldson and Evans. The judges summing up and directions to the jury was somewhat loaded and this was one of the things the original appeal focussed on. Eventually jury came back with unanimous decisions on both, innocent for Donaldson, guilty for Evans and thus avoided going into a fourth week. Personally, its why I feel it may be time to go to trial by panel of judges as I feel they would achieve safer convictions or acquittals based on evidence not 'feelings'. Which basically suggests that the jury were undecided on Donaldson, not Evans. And that hits a key point of law. Donaldson could reasonably be said to have believed he had consent by the actions prior to sex (i.e meeting a girl, having a few drinks and going back to the hotel). Evans doesn't have that capacity. Its an important distinction, because it establishes the importance of the timeline of events. The case hinges on whether it would be reasonable for Evan to believe he had consent (once it was established that the victim was intoxicated). His actions prior to obtaining consent are key to his conviction - There is no reasonable case to accept that he could have believed he had informed consent by actions of the victim or his own. And this is why I have an issue with it. Theres so much misinformation going around its ridiculous. The complainant met Donaldson on his way back to the hotel. They were both in the Pizza place but not together. They didn't drink together. She bumped into him on his way to get a cab. He said 'Where are you going' she said 'where are you going' he said 'To my hotel' she said 'I'm coming with you'. She'd had 2 glasses of wine, 4 double vodka lemonades and a shot of Sambucca. I have had this amount several times and gone home with girls about the same level of drunkenness as me. Have I raped them? Have they raped me? Have we raped each other? Safest thing in future is to carry a pocket breathalyzer and a stack of consent forms. Cos then I won't look like a rapist Part of Holmesdale Radio: The Next Generation @KingvagabondHOL Quote cornwalls palace at 24 Oct 2012 9.37am He was right!!!...and we killed him!!... poor Orpinton Eagles........
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Kingvagabond

London 08 Jan 15 3.05pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Jan 2015 11.32am

Quote Kingvagabond at 08 Jan 2015 11.14am

Quote derby eagle at 08 Jan 2015 7.40am

Quote Stirlingsays at 08 Jan 2015 2.06am

Being someone who helped run a pub for five years in their twenties and spent a time as a bouncer in nightclubs and in both instances saw quite a bit of stuff I'm inherently suspicious of the certainties that Jamie and others have as too this ladies capabilities.

This case to me is rife with possibilities.....What I can know from the evidence is that this guy Ched is a t***...I can say that it's possible that he raped this girl. What I can't say with reasonable certainty is that he did.....From what I've heard of the evidence this conviction should never have stood.

But it's atypical with where the courts are heading with rape.

Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Jan 2015 2.17am)

A jury seemed quite comfortable convicting him and they sat through all of the evidence. No one here did. There is jo new evidence, so there is very little chance of this being overturned and neither should it be. Unless of course every time a conviction is against our own inclination it gets overturned if the majority of the public don't like it as well. The arrogant cvnt is guilty, get over it and move on.

Here's the ironic thing, they didn't seem quite comfortable convicting him. There was no unanimous decision and so jury was informed that he would accept majority verdict. They were then told that both cases were completely different and despite it being a joint verdict they could give different outcomes for Donaldson and Evans. The judges summing up and directions to the jury was somewhat loaded and this was one of the things the original appeal focussed on.
Eventually jury came back with unanimous decisions on both, innocent for Donaldson, guilty for Evans and thus avoided going into a fourth week.

Personally, its why I feel it may be time to go to trial by panel of judges as I feel they would achieve safer convictions or acquittals based on evidence not 'feelings'.

Which basically suggests that the jury were undecided on Donaldson, not Evans. And that hits a key point of law.

Donaldson could reasonably be said to have believed he had consent by the actions prior to sex (i.e meeting a girl, having a few drinks and going back to the hotel). Evans doesn't have that capacity.

Its an important distinction, because it establishes the importance of the timeline of events.

The case hinges on whether it would be reasonable for Evan to believe he had consent (once it was established that the victim was intoxicated). His actions prior to obtaining consent are key to his conviction - There is no reasonable case to accept that he could have believed he had informed consent by actions of the victim or his own.

And this is why I have an issue with it. Theres so much misinformation going around its ridiculous. The complainant met Donaldson on his way back to the hotel. They were both in the Pizza place but not together. They didn't drink together. She bumped into him on his way to get a cab. He said 'Where are you going' she said 'where are you going' he said 'To my hotel' she said 'I'm coming with you'.

She'd had 2 glasses of wine, 4 double vodka lemonades and a shot of Sambucca. I have had this amount several times and gone home with girls about the same level of drunkenness as me. Have I raped them? Have they raped me? Have we raped each other? Safest thing in future is to carry a pocket breathalyzer and a stack of consent forms. Cos then I won't look like a rapist

Part of Holmesdale Radio: The Next Generation
@KingvagabondHOL

Quote cornwalls palace at 24 Oct 2012 9.37am

He was right!!!...and we killed him!!... poor Orpinton Eagles........

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Eagle of the south 08 Jan 15 3.09pm
Oldham were never gonna sign him they've just done it for the publicity. Beginning to feel quite sorry for Evans at the moment I hope a team who want him could just sign him and get it out of the way.
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Eagle of the south

08 Jan 15 3.09pm

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Oldham were never gonna sign him they've just done it for the publicity. Beginning to feel quite sorry for Evans at the moment I hope a team who want him could just sign him and get it out of the way.

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npn Crowborough 08 Jan 15 3.21pm
One more important question which needs answering: What sort of a name is "Ched"?
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npn

Crowborough 08 Jan 15 3.21pm

One more important question which needs answering:

What sort of a name is "Ched"?

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Stuk Top half 08 Jan 15 4.02pm
Quote npn at 08 Jan 2015 3.21pm One more important question which needs answering: What sort of a name is "Ched"? A s*** one. Optimistic as ever
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Stuk

Top half 08 Jan 15 4.02pm

Quote npn at 08 Jan 2015 3.21pm

One more important question which needs answering:

What sort of a name is "Ched"?

A s*** one.

Optimistic as ever

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kent675 Bromley, Kent 08 Jan 15 4.04pm
I agree with one of the earlier posts. He can claim he is innocent all day long and that's his prerogative. However he could come out and demand that the harassment of the victim stops. That might go some way to appeasing some of the baying mob. Can you imagine the reaction he was going to get playing away from home (in a football sense) if he eves does play again?? Comes to take a corner in front of Block B?? Four wheels drives the body - Two wheels drives the soul
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kent675

Bromley, Kent 08 Jan 15 4.04pm

I agree with one of the earlier posts. He can claim he is innocent all day long and that's his prerogative.
However he could come out and demand that the harassment of the victim stops. That might go some way to appeasing some of the baying mob.
Can you imagine the reaction he was going to get playing away from home (in a football sense) if he eves does play again?? Comes to take a corner in front of Block B??

Four wheels drives the body - Two wheels drives the soul

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Ray in Houston Houston 08 Jan 15 4.19pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 08 Jan 2015 2.16am The motive could be money via compensation or newspaper/media money. Nope. She is running away from the media, and changing her name constantly to avoid publicity. She hasn't made a penny out of this and is still unable to get on with even a semblance of a normal life. We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 08 Jan 15 4.19pm

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Quote Stirlingsays at 08 Jan 2015 2.16am
The motive could be money via compensation or newspaper/media money.

Nope. She is running away from the media, and changing her name constantly to avoid publicity. She hasn't made a penny out of this and is still unable to get on with even a semblance of a normal life.

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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OknotOK Cockfosters, London 08 Jan 15 4.26pm
Concerned at the mindset/mentality of people who think the best reponse to this was to threaten the board member's daughter with rape to prevent a rapist being allowed at the football club. Ched Evans is a tw@t, but it would appear so are some of the people campaigning against him. "It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show
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OknotOK

Cockfosters, London 08 Jan 15 4.26pm

Concerned at the mindset/mentality of people who think the best reponse to this was to threaten the board member's daughter with rape to prevent a rapist being allowed at the football club.

Ched Evans is a tw@t, but it would appear so are some of the people campaigning against him.

"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

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Ray in Houston Houston 08 Jan 15 4.52pm
Quote Kingvagabond at 08 Jan 2015 3.05pm And this is why I have an issue with it. Theres so much misinformation going around its ridiculous. The complainant met Donaldson on his way back to the hotel. They were both in the Pizza place but not together. They didn't drink together. She bumped into him on his way to get a cab. He said 'Where are you going' she said 'where are you going' he said 'To my hotel' she said 'I'm coming with you'. She'd had 2 glasses of wine, 4 double vodka lemonades and a shot of Sambucca. I have had this amount several times and gone home with girls about the same level of drunkenness as me. Have I raped them? Have they raped me? Have we raped each other? Safest thing in future is to carry a pocket breathalyzer and a stack of consent forms. Cos then I won't look like a rapist And here's where you're missing the point. Donaldson had implied consent because the girl agreed to come back to his hotel. Hence Donaldson's not guilty verdict. Evans sneaked into the room unannounced and, in his case, the court found that she was incapable of giving consent. Hence his guilty verdict. Edited by Ray in Houston (08 Jan 2015 4.54pm) We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 08 Jan 15 4.52pm

Quote Kingvagabond at 08 Jan 2015 3.05pm
And this is why I have an issue with it. Theres so much misinformation going around its ridiculous. The complainant met Donaldson on his way back to the hotel. They were both in the Pizza place but not together. They didn't drink together. She bumped into him on his way to get a cab. He said 'Where are you going' she said 'where are you going' he said 'To my hotel' she said 'I'm coming with you'.

And here's where you're missing the point. Donaldson had implied consent because the girl agreed to come back to his hotel. Hence Donaldson's not guilty verdict.

Evans sneaked into the room unannounced and, in his case, the court found that she was incapable of giving consent. Hence his guilty verdict.

Edited by Ray in Houston (08 Jan 2015 4.54pm)

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Stirlingsays 08 Jan 15 7.54pm
Quote Ray in Houston at 08 Jan 2015 4.52pm Quote Kingvagabond at 08 Jan 2015 3.05pm And this is why I have an issue with it. Theres so much misinformation going around its ridiculous. The complainant met Donaldson on his way back to the hotel. They were both in the Pizza place but not together. They didn't drink together. She bumped into him on his way to get a cab. He said 'Where are you going' she said 'where are you going' he said 'To my hotel' she said 'I'm coming with you'. She'd had 2 glasses of wine, 4 double vodka lemonades and a shot of Sambucca. I have had this amount several times and gone home with girls about the same level of drunkenness as me. Have I raped them? Have they raped me? Have we raped each other? Safest thing in future is to carry a pocket breathalyzer and a stack of consent forms. Cos then I won't look like a rapist And here's where you're missing the point. Donaldson had implied consent because the girl agreed to come back to his hotel. Hence Donaldson's not guilty verdict. Evans sneaked into the room unannounced and, in his case, the court found that she was incapable of giving consent. Hence his guilty verdict. Edited by Ray in Houston (08 Jan 2015 4.54pm) But that is stupid. You can't give consent if you're not conscious. ....This is meant to have been the girl's position. Whether or not an implication was given beforehand if you put your trouser snake into an unconscious girl then that is rape because she has no means to object. If your position is that this girl was incapable of giving consent in the bedroom then both of them are guilty of rape.....I view the judge's position as insensible. Personally I'm of the view that these two t***s have been had. Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Jan 2015 7.55pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

08 Jan 15 7.54pm

Quote Ray in Houston at 08 Jan 2015 4.52pm

And here's where you're missing the point. Donaldson had implied consent because the girl agreed to come back to his hotel. Hence Donaldson's not guilty verdict.

Evans sneaked into the room unannounced and, in his case, the court found that she was incapable of giving consent. Hence his guilty verdict.

Edited by Ray in Houston (08 Jan 2015 4.54pm)

But that is stupid.

You can't give consent if you're not conscious. ....This is meant to have been the girl's position. Whether or not an implication was given beforehand if you put your trouser snake into an unconscious girl then that is rape because she has no means to object.

If your position is that this girl was incapable of giving consent in the bedroom then both of them are guilty of rape.....I view the judge's position as insensible.

Personally I'm of the view that these two t***s have been had.

Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Jan 2015 7.55pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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gambler Kent 08 Jan 15 8.16pm
Apparently some anti Evans person threatened to rape a relative of an Oldham employee. So you protest against a rapist by threatening to rape someone lol!
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gambler

Kent 08 Jan 15 8.16pm

Apparently some anti Evans person threatened to rape a relative of an Oldham employee.

So you protest against a rapist by threatening to rape someone lol!

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