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Socialist paradise in Venezuela

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derben Flag 28 May 15 8.25am

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This is how it would be here if TUSC or similar 'progressives' were in power.

 

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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 28 May 15 8.35am Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Why do you think it is a 'socialist paradise'? Looks anything but at the moment. Do you mean it is a failed Socialist state? Akin to failed capitalist states who also have populations without enough food, etc?

There are plenty of those too, you know.

 


Big chest and massive boobs

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derben Flag 28 May 15 9.03am

It is the inevitable fruits of attempting to implement these sorts of policies that are shared by the likes of TUSC. Certainly some Capitalist states fail, but all extreme 'Socialist' state do.

 

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View SamCPFC17's Profile SamCPFC17 Flag Croydon 28 May 15 9.36am Send a Private Message to SamCPFC17 Add SamCPFC17 as a friend

I think you'll find the failures in Venezuela had a great deal more to do with government incompetence (a problem in practically all 3rd world countries) than socialist policies. Across the vast majority of the rest of Latin America, left-wing governments during the 2000s and 2010s have made many incredible achievements -
[Link]
[Link]
[Link]
[Link]

 

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derben Flag 28 May 15 10.40am

Quote SamCPFC17 at 28 May 2015 9.36am

I think you'll find the failures in Venezuela had a great deal more to do with government incompetence (a problem in practically all 3rd world countries) than socialist policies. Across the vast majority of the rest of Latin America, left-wing governments during the 2000s and 2010s have made many incredible achievements -
[Link]
[Link]
[Link]
[Link]

Why do you think that throughout history people have tried to flee from extreme left wing states and sought refuge in democratic Capitalist states.

 

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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 28 May 15 10.48am Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Quote derben at 28 May 2015 10.40am

Quote SamCPFC17 at 28 May 2015 9.36am

I think you'll find the failures in Venezuela had a great deal more to do with government incompetence (a problem in practically all 3rd world countries) than socialist policies. Across the vast majority of the rest of Latin America, left-wing governments during the 2000s and 2010s have made many incredible achievements -
[Link]
[Link]
[Link]
[Link]

Why do you think that throughout history people have tried to flee from extreme left wing states and sought refuge in democratic Capitalist states.


And why do you think throughout history people have tried to usurp the ruling classes and the iniquities that they bestowed to try to create a fairer more socially just society? The French did alright in the end out of their revolution, didn't they?

 


Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]


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derben Flag 28 May 15 11.06am

Quote Kermit8 at 28 May 2015 10.48am

Quote derben at 28 May 2015 10.40am

Quote SamCPFC17 at 28 May 2015 9.36am

I think you'll find the failures in Venezuela had a great deal more to do with government incompetence (a problem in practically all 3rd world countries) than socialist policies. Across the vast majority of the rest of Latin America, left-wing governments during the 2000s and 2010s have made many incredible achievements -
[Link]
[Link]
[Link]
[Link]

Why do you think that throughout history people have tried to flee from extreme left wing states and sought refuge in democratic Capitalist states.


And why do you think throughout history people have tried to usurp the ruling classes and the iniquities that they bestowed to try to create a fairer more socially just society? The French did alright in the end out of their revolution, didn't they?

As Chou En-Lai said in 1972, "it is too early to tell".

Actually, all it achieved was the final ending of feudalism (in Europe anyway). It also 'achieved' the rise of Napoleon - just like the rise of Stalin following the Russian Revolution (the iniquities they bestowed made their predecessors seem like beneficent Father Christmases).

 

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View serial thriller's Profile serial thriller Flag The Promised Land 28 May 15 11.23am Send a Private Message to serial thriller Add serial thriller as a friend

Quote derben at 28 May 2015 10.40am

Quote SamCPFC17 at 28 May 2015 9.36am

I think you'll find the failures in Venezuela had a great deal more to do with government incompetence (a problem in practically all 3rd world countries) than socialist policies. Across the vast majority of the rest of Latin America, left-wing governments during the 2000s and 2010s have made many incredible achievements -
[Link]
[Link]
[Link]
[Link]

Why do you think that throughout history people have tried to flee from extreme left wing states and sought refuge in democratic Capitalist states.


What a stupid thing to say. The two major nations from which people are fleeing at the moment are Russia and Syria, one of which is ostensibly a Capitalist democracy, the other of which Western forces tried to bomb in order to create it, only for it to massively backfire (quelle surprise).

To claim all attempts at Socialism have failed is as ludicrous as saying that all attempts at Capitalism have failed - it's a simplistic analysis which no historian worth their salt could get away with. The major difference between the two ideology's retrospective successes is that throughout the 20th century, every single attempt at Socialist economic or social change has been challenged, and often actively stamped out by the dominant imperial power of the century, America. That's what we are seeing currently taking hold in Venezuela - covert operations by the American secret service to overthrow a nation who won't dance to their tune. I could write a long analysis of what's going on in Venezuela, but it's probably better to leave it to a Venezuelan to do so: [Link]

That's not to say that Socialist states would be flourishing without American interference. Cuba is incredibly homophobic, Uruguay is a very racist country, Russia's centralised authoritarianism was brutal. But then have a look at some of the wonderful examples of Capitalism in action: American incarceration of blacks, Russian homophobia, Pinochet in Chile.

 


If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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derben Flag 28 May 15 11.26am

Quote serial thriller at 28 May 2015 11.23am

Quote derben at 28 May 2015 10.40am

Quote SamCPFC17 at 28 May 2015 9.36am

I think you'll find the failures in Venezuela had a great deal more to do with government incompetence (a problem in practically all 3rd world countries) than socialist policies. Across the vast majority of the rest of Latin America, left-wing governments during the 2000s and 2010s have made many incredible achievements -
[Link]
[Link]
[Link]
[Link]

Why do you think that throughout history people have tried to flee from extreme left wing states and sought refuge in democratic Capitalist states.


What a stupid thing to say. The two major nations from which people are fleeing at the moment are Russia and Syria, one of which is ostensibly a Capitalist democracy, the other of which Western forces tried to bomb in order to create it, only for it to massively backfire (quelle surprise).

To claim all attempts at Socialism have failed is as ludicrous as saying that all attempts at Capitalism have failed - it's a simplistic analysis which no historian worth their salt could get away with. The major difference between the two ideology's retrospective successes is that throughout the 20th century, every single attempt at Socialist economic or social change has been challenged, and often actively stamped out by the dominant imperial power of the century, America. That's what we are seeing currently taking hold in Venezuela - covert operations by the American secret service to overthrow a nation who won't dance to their tune. I could write a long analysis of what's going on in Venezuela, but it's probably better to leave it to a Venezuelan to do so: [Link]

That's not to say that Socialist states would be flourishing without American interference. Cuba is incredibly homophobic, Uruguay is a very racist country, Russia's centralised authoritarianism was brutal. But then have a look at some of the wonderful examples of Capitalism in action: American incarceration of blacks, Russian homophobia, Pinochet in Chile.

lol.

Can you give us a list of successful Socialist countries then?

 

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View serial thriller's Profile serial thriller Flag The Promised Land 28 May 15 11.28am Send a Private Message to serial thriller Add serial thriller as a friend

Quote derben at 28 May 2015 11.06am

Quote Kermit8 at 28 May 2015 10.48am

Quote derben at 28 May 2015 10.40am

Quote SamCPFC17 at 28 May 2015 9.36am

I think you'll find the failures in Venezuela had a great deal more to do with government incompetence (a problem in practically all 3rd world countries) than socialist policies. Across the vast majority of the rest of Latin America, left-wing governments during the 2000s and 2010s have made many incredible achievements -
[Link]
[Link]
[Link]
[Link]

Why do you think that throughout history people have tried to flee from extreme left wing states and sought refuge in democratic Capitalist states.


And why do you think throughout history people have tried to usurp the ruling classes and the iniquities that they bestowed to try to create a fairer more socially just society? The French did alright in the end out of their revolution, didn't they?

As Chou En-Lai said in 1972, "it is too early to tell".

Actually, all it achieved was the final ending of feudalism (in Europe anyway). It also 'achieved' the rise of Napoleon - just like the rise of Stalin following the Russian Revolution (the iniquities they bestowed made their predecessors seem like beneficent Father Christmases).

The French and Russian Revolutions didn't 'achieve' the rises of those men, they came decades after.

Surely if you want to look at a Socialist revolution in France, it's better to look at the Paris Commune. How did that end? A massacre at the hands of imperialist Prussia. History repeats itself, eh?

 


If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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derben Flag 28 May 15 11.35am

Quote serial thriller at 28 May 2015 11.28am

Quote derben at 28 May 2015 11.06am

Quote Kermit8 at 28 May 2015 10.48am

Quote derben at 28 May 2015 10.40am

Quote SamCPFC17 at 28 May 2015 9.36am

I think you'll find the failures in Venezuela had a great deal more to do with government incompetence (a problem in practically all 3rd world countries) than socialist policies. Across the vast majority of the rest of Latin America, left-wing governments during the 2000s and 2010s have made many incredible achievements -
[Link]
[Link]
[Link]
[Link]

Why do you think that throughout history people have tried to flee from extreme left wing states and sought refuge in democratic Capitalist states.


And why do you think throughout history people have tried to usurp the ruling classes and the iniquities that they bestowed to try to create a fairer more socially just society? The French did alright in the end out of their revolution, didn't they?

As Chou En-Lai said in 1972, "it is too early to tell".

Actually, all it achieved was the final ending of feudalism (in Europe anyway). It also 'achieved' the rise of Napoleon - just like the rise of Stalin following the Russian Revolution (the iniquities they bestowed made their predecessors seem like beneficent Father Christmases).

The French and Russian Revolutions didn't 'achieve' the rises of those men, they came decades after.

Surely if you want to look at a Socialist revolution in France, it's better to look at the Paris Commune. How did that end? A massacre at the hands of imperialist Prussia. History repeats itself, eh?

Decades after - really? Outbreak of French Revolution, 1789, Napoleon's coup 1799. Russian Revolution 1917, Stalin in charge 1924.

The Paris Commune lasted a couple of months, hardly possible to determine whether it was a successful Socialist enterprise. Certainly it was violently suppressed, what does that prove?

Edited by derben (28 May 2015 11.39am)

 

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View serial thriller's Profile serial thriller Flag The Promised Land 28 May 15 11.36am Send a Private Message to serial thriller Add serial thriller as a friend

Quote derben at 28 May 2015 11.26am

Quote serial thriller at 28 May 2015 11.23am

Quote derben at 28 May 2015 10.40am

Quote SamCPFC17 at 28 May 2015 9.36am

I think you'll find the failures in Venezuela had a great deal more to do with government incompetence (a problem in practically all 3rd world countries) than socialist policies. Across the vast majority of the rest of Latin America, left-wing governments during the 2000s and 2010s have made many incredible achievements -
[Link]
[Link]
[Link]
[Link]

Why do you think that throughout history people have tried to flee from extreme left wing states and sought refuge in democratic Capitalist states.


What a stupid thing to say. The two major nations from which people are fleeing at the moment are Russia and Syria, one of which is ostensibly a Capitalist democracy, the other of which Western forces tried to bomb in order to create it, only for it to massively backfire (quelle surprise).

To claim all attempts at Socialism have failed is as ludicrous as saying that all attempts at Capitalism have failed - it's a simplistic analysis which no historian worth their salt could get away with. The major difference between the two ideology's retrospective successes is that throughout the 20th century, every single attempt at Socialist economic or social change has been challenged, and often actively stamped out by the dominant imperial power of the century, America. That's what we are seeing currently taking hold in Venezuela - covert operations by the American secret service to overthrow a nation who won't dance to their tune. I could write a long analysis of what's going on in Venezuela, but it's probably better to leave it to a Venezuelan to do so: [Link]

That's not to say that Socialist states would be flourishing without American interference. Cuba is incredibly homophobic, Uruguay is a very racist country, Russia's centralised authoritarianism was brutal. But then have a look at some of the wonderful examples of Capitalism in action: American incarceration of blacks, Russian homophobia, Pinochet in Chile.

lol.

Can you give us a list of successful Socialist countries then?


Again, looking at nations as 'successful' or not is a really stupid game to play. All I was pointing out in that point is that the attempts at Socialism, praiseworthy or not, have been severely hindered by American foreign operations.

Although given that I can tell you won't be satisfied until I provide examples of 'successful' Socialism, how about the Kurds in northern Syria fighting IS with half of their front line being female? Spanish communes are flourishing, and even in South America Socialist states have dealt comparatively well with poverty, malnutrition and disease. Now in response, can you give me a list of successful Capitalist countries?

 


If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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