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April 29 2024 1.26pm

No more immigrants.

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View Stuk's Profile Stuk Flag Top half 15 Sep 15 2.09pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Quote dannyh at 15 Sep 2015 2.00pm

Quote Stuk at 15 Sep 2015 1.36pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 15 Sep 2015 12.52pm

Quote since1953 at 15 Sep 2015 12.44pm

After promising refuge to 800K immigrants in the first year,Germany has closed its border with Austria after taking in a fraction (40K?) . They are now proposing a financial penalty for those EU countries not wishing to take a proportion. Dream on.

See this makes sense to me. They proposed taking 800,000 refugees, not 800,000 immigrants. Effectively the best solution is to restrict borders, and take refugees primarily from the camps, thus preventing people trying to get into countries 'illicitly' and claiming independent asylum.

Realistically, the solution to the problem is better resolved on an European wide basis, than individual nationalities - Such as the suspension Free Movement going forwards which would reduce UK Immigration by 42% in the coming year, and easily allow for a significant contribution to Refugee placements (well in excess of the 4,000 a year we have agreed on, over five years).

It made sense weeks, if not months, ago, instead of Germany saying you're all welcome and f*** the rules abour registering.

Now they're swamped with too many, they resort to bullying other countries into doing what they want them to do.


Germany ? Bullying other smaller countries? Surely not, I won't have it.

Did anyone see the sky news footage of the Hungarians putting up security fences? Jesus H Christ it was like listening to commentary of Simon Bates narrating the erection of a death/ concentration camp FFS.

When in fact all they where doing where securing points along the border were ILLEGAL immigrants where ILLEGALLY (there's that word again). The actual official entry point was still open, and yet it wasn’t being used ? interesting isn’t it, a perfectly legal and above board boarder control crossing not being used. Well in the words of one English speaking Syrian "refugee" (my arse) they didn’t want to cross legally as their finger prints would be taken.

So in his words, they would stay at the fence causing as much as a problem for the Hungarian authorities as possible until they removed the fence.

Now if that doesn’t make even the likes of UN special envoy for peace Mr Jamie Martin even a tad suspicious then I give up.

I know why they don’t want their finger prints taken, its because there is a central bank of over 73000 known terrorist finger prints, and I would imagine a few among their contingent have let it be known that no one will have their finger prints taken, or Allah will be very cross.

And at this rate there won't be anyone left in Syria by October.
Dodgey as f***, and making it harder to recognise the real cases of hardship and persicution.

I've had mine taken when I go on holiday. That's the rules of the country I want to enter, so that's what happens.

I think that secretly Germany is now waiting for winter, and them throwing a few stumbling blocks in now will stem the tide until then.

 


Optimistic as ever

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View dannyh's Profile dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 15 Sep 15 2.17pm Send a Private Message to dannyh Add dannyh as a friend

Quote Ouzo Dan at 15 Sep 2015 1.41pm

Germany's action's have been a disgrace, you cannot open your borders the way they have done creating a once in a lifetime mad dash that we will never see again & then shut the door.

How many more have died because of Merkel's frankly mental plan? she should be arrested & tried at court.

Germany have pissed off half of Europe, have left thousands upon thousands of refugees & economic chancers stuck in limbo & despite their pitiful U-turn & breaking their own rules twice have the nerve threaten other nations to take more.

This is the biggest blow to the European union to date one which the EU will not recover from & it was all caused by the one Nation that stands to lose the most from it.

It's all just so f***ing mental.


Edited by Ouzo Dan (15 Sep 2015 1.41pm)


Hmmmmm has a familier ring to it, I just can't quite put my finger on it, I'm sure I recall something similar about 70 odd years ago.

Merkel.jpg Attachment: Merkel.jpg (10.89Kb)

 


"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 15 Sep 15 2.22pm

Quote since1953 at 15 Sep 2015 1.03pm

I see your point but:
1. There is no chance that Free Movement will be suspended.
2. Those from the EU under the Free Movement scheme will, generally speaking, return home in due course.

The refugees that are taken on will eventually apply for full citizenship. No way will they want to return to Syria/Afghanistan etc after the fighting. As I have said before tracking them down and deporting them will be expensive and difficult.

That isn't represented in the data sets though, it seems that the UK migration rate is about 300,000 or so more than the UK emigration rates each year.

I'd see this as unsustainable, as any kind of long term strategy, especially given the impact it has had on wages in the UK (here the demand makes sense, given the strength of the pound against the Euro). Whilst I'm left wing, I see the use of the Free Movement as a means by which cheap labour has been shifted around the EU and has driven down wages for the working class and upper working classes (and to a lesser extent middle classes of the UK).

Refugees on the other hand traditionally do generally end up becoming long term citizens, I don't see a case where by they will be able to return to Syria, so the prospect of them becoming a cheap labour force that drives down wages doesn't exist. Admitedly, they'll have longer term costs in terms of health care, but also greater based UK spending and long term engagement, as well as providing a potential boon for the intelligence services - an influx of people who speak both English and Arabic, many of who have been driven out by groups such as IS. As a rule Refugees have a great history of integration and loyalty in their first two generations

The spike in Syrian refugees as boat migrants, has been driven particularly from the Syrian middle classes, which means that many potentially have useful skills and educational backgrounds.


 


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View Stuk's Profile Stuk Flag Top half 15 Sep 15 2.47pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Quote jamiemartin721 at 15 Sep 2015 2.22pm

Quote since1953 at 15 Sep 2015 1.03pm

I see your point but:
1. There is no chance that Free Movement will be suspended.
2. Those from the EU under the Free Movement scheme will, generally speaking, return home in due course.

The refugees that are taken on will eventually apply for full citizenship. No way will they want to return to Syria/Afghanistan etc after the fighting. As I have said before tracking them down and deporting them will be expensive and difficult.

That isn't represented in the data sets though, it seems that the UK migration rate is about 300,000 or so more than the UK emigration rates each year.

I'd see this as unsustainable, as any kind of long term strategy, especially given the impact it has had on wages in the UK (here the demand makes sense, given the strength of the pound against the Euro). Whilst I'm left wing, I see the use of the Free Movement as a means by which cheap labour has been shifted around the EU and has driven down wages for the working class and upper working classes (and to a lesser extent middle classes of the UK).

Refugees on the other hand traditionally do generally end up becoming long term citizens, I don't see a case where by they will be able to return to Syria, so the prospect of them becoming a cheap labour force that drives down wages doesn't exist. Admitedly, they'll have longer term costs in terms of health care, but also greater based UK spending and long term engagement, as well as providing a potential boon for the intelligence services - an influx of people who speak both English and Arabic, many of who have been driven out by groups such as IS. As a rule Refugees have a great history of integration and loyalty in their first two generations

The spike in Syrian refugees as boat migrants, has been driven particularly from the Syrian middle classes, which means that many potentially have useful skills and educational backgrounds.



And which country didn't have a minimum wage at all until 2014...

And even now it's lower than our rate.

How it used to be before:
[Link]

 


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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 16 Sep 15 11.00am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote jamiemartin721 at 15 Sep 2015 2.22pm

Quote since1953 at 15 Sep 2015 1.03pm

I see your point but:
1. There is no chance that Free Movement will be suspended.
2. Those from the EU under the Free Movement scheme will, generally speaking, return home in due course.

The refugees that are taken on will eventually apply for full citizenship. No way will they want to return to Syria/Afghanistan etc after the fighting. As I have said before tracking them down and deporting them will be expensive and difficult.

That isn't represented in the data sets though, it seems that the UK migration rate is about 300,000 or so more than the UK emigration rates each year.

I'd see this as unsustainable, as any kind of long term strategy, especially given the impact it has had on wages in the UK (here the demand makes sense, given the strength of the pound against the Euro). Whilst I'm left wing, I see the use of the Free Movement as a means by which cheap labour has been shifted around the EU and has driven down wages for the working class and upper working classes (and to a lesser extent middle classes of the UK).

Refugees on the other hand traditionally do generally end up becoming long term citizens, I don't see a case where by they will be able to return to Syria, so the prospect of them becoming a cheap labour force that drives down wages doesn't exist. Admitedly, they'll have longer term costs in terms of health care, but also greater based UK spending and long term engagement, as well as providing a potential boon for the intelligence services - an influx of people who speak both English and Arabic, many of who have been driven out by groups such as IS. As a rule Refugees have a great history of integration and loyalty in their first two generations

The spike in Syrian refugees as boat migrants, has been driven particularly from the Syrian middle classes, which means that many potentially have useful skills and educational backgrounds.



In my view that's mostly an excellent post.

After an initial annoyance I think that Cameron has pretty much played the right card in this situation.

We should respect our long standing position on refugees. However, this country is in dire straits in terms of housing even its own inhabitants and national policies need to take account of realities on the ground.

Germany's population is going down......They need migrants but......after a couple of idealistic comments they are now obviously aware of the potential for swamping.

No country will operate policies that are significantly against there own self interest.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View dannyh's Profile dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 16 Sep 15 11.03am Send a Private Message to dannyh Add dannyh as a friend

Quote Stirlingsays at 16 Sep 2015 11.00am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 15 Sep 2015 2.22pm

Quote since1953 at 15 Sep 2015 1.03pm

I see your point but:
1. There is no chance that Free Movement will be suspended.
2. Those from the EU under the Free Movement scheme will, generally speaking, return home in due course.

The refugees that are taken on will eventually apply for full citizenship. No way will they want to return to Syria/Afghanistan etc after the fighting. As I have said before tracking them down and deporting them will be expensive and difficult.

That isn't represented in the data sets though, it seems that the UK migration rate is about 300,000 or so more than the UK emigration rates each year.

I'd see this as unsustainable, as any kind of long term strategy, especially given the impact it has had on wages in the UK (here the demand makes sense, given the strength of the pound against the Euro). Whilst I'm left wing, I see the use of the Free Movement as a means by which cheap labour has been shifted around the EU and has driven down wages for the working class and upper working classes (and to a lesser extent middle classes of the UK).

Refugees on the other hand traditionally do generally end up becoming long term citizens, I don't see a case where by they will be able to return to Syria, so the prospect of them becoming a cheap labour force that drives down wages doesn't exist. Admitedly, they'll have longer term costs in terms of health care, but also greater based UK spending and long term engagement, as well as providing a potential boon for the intelligence services - an influx of people who speak both English and Arabic, many of who have been driven out by groups such as IS. As a rule Refugees have a great history of integration and loyalty in their first two generations

The spike in Syrian refugees as boat migrants, has been driven particularly from the Syrian middle classes, which means that many potentially have useful skills and educational backgrounds.



In my view that's mostly an excellent post.

After an initial annoyance I think that Cameron has pretty much played the right card in this situation.

We should respect our long standing position on refugees. However, this country is in dire straits in terms of housing even its own inhabitants and national policies need to take account of realities on the ground.

Germany's population is going down......They need migrants but......after a couple of idealistic comments they are now obviously aware of the potential for swamping.

No country will operate policies that are significantly against there own self interest.


Whats pissing your bed got to with the price of fish ?

 


"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 16 Sep 15 11.28am

Quote Stirlingsays at 16 Sep 2015 11.00am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 15 Sep 2015 2.22pm

Quote since1953 at 15 Sep 2015 1.03pm

I see your point but:
1. There is no chance that Free Movement will be suspended.
2. Those from the EU under the Free Movement scheme will, generally speaking, return home in due course.

The refugees that are taken on will eventually apply for full citizenship. No way will they want to return to Syria/Afghanistan etc after the fighting. As I have said before tracking them down and deporting them will be expensive and difficult.

That isn't represented in the data sets though, it seems that the UK migration rate is about 300,000 or so more than the UK emigration rates each year.

I'd see this as unsustainable, as any kind of long term strategy, especially given the impact it has had on wages in the UK (here the demand makes sense, given the strength of the pound against the Euro). Whilst I'm left wing, I see the use of the Free Movement as a means by which cheap labour has been shifted around the EU and has driven down wages for the working class and upper working classes (and to a lesser extent middle classes of the UK).

Refugees on the other hand traditionally do generally end up becoming long term citizens, I don't see a case where by they will be able to return to Syria, so the prospect of them becoming a cheap labour force that drives down wages doesn't exist. Admitedly, they'll have longer term costs in terms of health care, but also greater based UK spending and long term engagement, as well as providing a potential boon for the intelligence services - an influx of people who speak both English and Arabic, many of who have been driven out by groups such as IS. As a rule Refugees have a great history of integration and loyalty in their first two generations

The spike in Syrian refugees as boat migrants, has been driven particularly from the Syrian middle classes, which means that many potentially have useful skills and educational backgrounds.



In my view that's mostly an excellent post.

After an initial annoyance I think that Cameron has pretty much played the right card in this situation.

We should respect our long standing position on refugees. However, this country is in dire straits in terms of housing even its own inhabitants and national policies need to take account of realities on the ground.

Germany's population is going down......They need migrants but......after a couple of idealistic comments they are now obviously aware of the potential for swamping.

No country will operate policies that are significantly against there own self interest.

So do the Conservatives have a policy that is going to redress the housing crisis and ridiculously inflated prices of rents and property prices? Neither them or Labour really did anything about this during the last 17 years (when prices were rising into the 'absurdly' high).

I don't for a minute think the Conservatives are going to shoot themselves in the foot by introducing Rent Caps or build sufficient low cost council maintained properties to tackle the market demand.


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 16 Sep 15 11.30am

Quote Stirlingsays at 16 Sep 2015 11.00am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 15 Sep 2015 2.22pm

Quote since1953 at 15 Sep 2015 1.03pm

I see your point but:
1. There is no chance that Free Movement will be suspended.
2. Those from the EU under the Free Movement scheme will, generally speaking, return home in due course.

The refugees that are taken on will eventually apply for full citizenship. No way will they want to return to Syria/Afghanistan etc after the fighting. As I have said before tracking them down and deporting them will be expensive and difficult.

That isn't represented in the data sets though, it seems that the UK migration rate is about 300,000 or so more than the UK emigration rates each year.

I'd see this as unsustainable, as any kind of long term strategy, especially given the impact it has had on wages in the UK (here the demand makes sense, given the strength of the pound against the Euro). Whilst I'm left wing, I see the use of the Free Movement as a means by which cheap labour has been shifted around the EU and has driven down wages for the working class and upper working classes (and to a lesser extent middle classes of the UK).

Refugees on the other hand traditionally do generally end up becoming long term citizens, I don't see a case where by they will be able to return to Syria, so the prospect of them becoming a cheap labour force that drives down wages doesn't exist. Admitedly, they'll have longer term costs in terms of health care, but also greater based UK spending and long term engagement, as well as providing a potential boon for the intelligence services - an influx of people who speak both English and Arabic, many of who have been driven out by groups such as IS. As a rule Refugees have a great history of integration and loyalty in their first two generations

The spike in Syrian refugees as boat migrants, has been driven particularly from the Syrian middle classes, which means that many potentially have useful skills and educational backgrounds.



In my view that's mostly an excellent post.

After an initial annoyance I think that Cameron has pretty much played the right card in this situation.

We should respect our long standing position on refugees. However, this country is in dire straits in terms of housing even its own inhabitants and national policies need to take account of realities on the ground.

Germany's population is going down......They need migrants but......after a couple of idealistic comments they are now obviously aware of the potential for swamping.

No country will operate policies that are significantly against there own self interest.

I think Germany is happy to take 800,000 Refugees, I think its less keen on the idea of taking 800,000 new migrants - which is why they want to take them from camps. A consequence of the Syrian and Libyan refugees moving freely, is that they make a great means by which illegal migrants and economic migrants can also move country.


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 16 Sep 15 11.36am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Personally I don't believe a word of what any politician says about migrants in general.

Does anyone really believe that Europe couldn't close it's borders to migrants if it really wanted to ?

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 16 Sep 15 12.06pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 16 Sep 2015 11.36am

Personally I don't believe a word of what any politician says about migrants in general.

Does anyone really believe that Europe couldn't close it's borders to migrants if it really wanted to ?


You mean on the basis that e.g. the US has done such a good job of controlling unregulated migration?

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 16 Sep 15 12.27pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Quote Mapletree at 16 Sep 2015 12.06pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 16 Sep 2015 11.36am

Personally I don't believe a word of what any politician says about migrants in general.

Does anyone really believe that Europe couldn't close it's borders to migrants if it really wanted to ?


You mean on the basis that e.g. the US has done such a good job of controlling unregulated migration?


Fair point. The US has a huge border with Mexico which by it's geographical nature is hard to control. It also has hundreds of miles of coastline to defend.
Whether this in itself is enough to explain the huge influx of Hispanics is an interesting question. I suspect the US, much like Europe, is happy to keep the situation at bay while secretly being quite happy to boost it's cheap labour force with those who do make it across the border.

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 16 Sep 15 12.37pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 16 Sep 2015 11.36am

Personally I don't believe a word of what any politician says about migrants in general.

Does anyone really believe that Europe couldn't close it's borders to migrants if it really wanted to ?

To migrants, it'd be almost impossible, given the nature of tourism and transportation requirements, especially given that border towns often are dependent on cross border interaction. Its important to remember that some migration is necessary - you can't have an no migration situation.


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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