Agree except what you said about Squeaky (Rob Andrew), which is wrong. He is a t***...no argument there and he needs to be removed...but he played in a World Cup final and grand-slam winning England team, then was a very successful coach domestically, taking Newcastle from nowhere to champions. He had the right pedigree for the job, but has failed miserably since getting it. This just proves that sometimes the right hire doesn't work out.

Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

World Cup seedings are based on rankings at a certain point in time when the draw is made. Two of the top 8 go into each group. Because they were in a brief tailspin, Wales momentarily dropped out of the top 8, literally for a month but it was the month on which the draw was based, and were thus always going to create a pool of death. England and Australia got the short straw in the draw which added a strong team to an already ridiculously strong draw. Had Wales been drawn with Scotland and South Africa, things would have been significantly different.

Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

Danny, in a lot of ways what you're saying -- and it's as true of the FA and Woy as it is of the RFU and Bomber -- is that we've failed because we've reverted to type and behaved like Englishmen. You know; conciliatory, polite, well-meaning, conservative, narrow-minded and a tiny bit self-impressed. We think we're better than we are.

If you think about it, our major sporting successes in half a century have all (or at least mainly) come from teams or athletes that are extremely un-English. The 2003 rugby World Cup was driven by Sir Clive; a man who was egotistical, driven, totally uncompromising, and utterly determined. As were most of his players. He won the World Cup but polite little English administrators couldn't cope with him so now he's out in the cold. Our recent Tour de France and Olympic Cycling successes were driven by Dave Brailsford. Another arrogant, uncompromising and totally driven coach. Andy Murray...achieved success with foreign coaches who were proven winners and bases himself in the States. Oh, and guess what? He's arrogant, uncompromising, and totally driven. And so the list goes on. You get the picture. Notice a pattern here?

The real truth is that the English mentality and persona is not suited to sporting success. We lack a cutting edge; we don't pursue becoming elite, we default to the safe option and, mainly, we just don't work hard enough. It's often said that Ronaldo and not Rooney became the best player in the world simply because the former was unwilling to settle for anything else while the latter was happy to rely on his natural talent taking him as far as it could and that was good enough.

What you point out IS a rugby issue, but it's not exclusively a rugby issue. I believe that both our rugby and football teams have the raw material (number of players, skill levels, etc.) to win World Cups but we simply lack the required mentality from the administration level right through to the playing level to achieve it. Only when we somehow put things in the hands of people who do have the right mentality do we see our potential being fulfilled. But when that happens, how many people really like our winners? Andy Murray is hardly popular. SCW is respected but not liked. Dave Brailsford is respected but considered a bit of a an oddity.

Unlike, say, Americans, who simply celebrate success and the price paid to achieve it, we don't. They believe the price is worth paying. We feel like compromising your values to win is somehow a little bit dirty. And then we wonder why our teams fail. What we've really never done is made the mental transition from the amateur sports we have played for a century to the professional games which we play now. We've assumed that if we were world class amateurs in the old days, there's no reason we can't just be world class professionals now. But it doesn't work like that. Professionalism is a great leveler and we have failed across the board to adapt.

Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

Yep I'd agree with that - we don't lose on talent half the time but on mentality.

We seem to think putting a few pithy motivational phrases from Vince Lombardi on a dressing room wall creates a winning mentality (or a bit of Sun Tzu's Art of War on a full sleeve tattoo as far as football is concerned)...it doesn't.

I read a great little piece the other day.

When Shankly was in negotiations with Liverpool, (board and chairman) who were trying to prise him from Huddersfield, he insisted so many criteria being met before he would come in around how the club was run and was basically a totally uncompromising b****** on absolutely everything, all in a time when chairman and board were kings and manager did as they were told...he got his way.

He knew that he needed to imprint his own mentality and stamp on the club and the rest is history...

On a plus side I am actually quite relieved that I can watch the world cup without an 'interest' other than the game - bit perverse that but quite a nice feeling.

Southern Hemisphere sides to lose without question. We in the North are so far behind Saffers, AB's ands Aussies its unreal - We will be struggling behind Argentina soon given the steps they are taking to improve their players as well...

Edited by The Sash (06 Oct 2015 11.48am)

As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014

Agree with all that Syd.

Key points for me as to why we were utterly crap:

No room for players outside the English Premiership.
Only yes men need apply for manager (see FA as well)
to much emphasis on rugby league tactics
piss poor dressing room.
piss poor leadership.

I mean FFS I listened to a james Haskell interview, and he was practising to be a DJ inbetween game and training, You are at a world cup you chump. You should be eating sleeping and s***ting rugby. No learning how to be a DJ you massive ponce.

I know players need to relax but to come out during a world cup after a piss poor performance against wales and openly admitt your learning to DJ " at the moment" tells me all I need to know.

I bet none of the welsh players were on the ones and two's before the game

"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

Good for you ...now it's game of the group and will be an opportunity to see if Wales are really a match for the likes of a very decent Oz team. I hope so!

Edited by Percy of Peckham (07 Oct 2015 10.43am)

Denial is not just a river in Egypt!