Palestinians inciting violence

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jamiemartin721 Reading 20 Oct 15 1.10pm
Quote matt_himself at 20 Oct 2015 1.03pm So you agree that he is calling for a holy war and encouraging martyrdom and in turn the killing of Israeli's? I do, its not really that surprising either, given the relationship between Israel and Palestine, every Palestinian leader since Arafat has been of the 'Islamist' flavor really. Arafat probably would have down played the religious elements, and gone more with Nationalist themes. Effectively the country of Israel and the people of Palestine have been locked in a 40 plus year war. Its not really that surprising that they're banging war drums. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 20 Oct 15 1.10pm

Quote matt_himself at 20 Oct 2015 1.03pm
So you agree that he is calling for a holy war and encouraging martyrdom and in turn the killing of Israeli's?

I do, its not really that surprising either, given the relationship between Israel and Palestine, every Palestinian leader since Arafat has been of the 'Islamist' flavor really. Arafat probably would have down played the religious elements, and gone more with Nationalist themes.

Effectively the country of Israel and the people of Palestine have been locked in a 40 plus year war. Its not really that surprising that they're banging war drums.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Oliver Bodega Bay 20 Oct 15 1.50pm
Quote matt_himself at 20 Oct 2015 1.03pm Quote Oliver at 20 Oct 2015 10.52am Quote matt_himself at 20 Oct 2015 4.54am Quote Oliver at 19 Oct 2015 10.34pm Quote matt_himself at 19 Oct 2015 7.24pm Quote Kermit8 at 19 Oct 2015 6.45pm Quote matt_himself at 19 Oct 2015 6.00pm Quote Oliver at 19 Oct 2015 12.32pm Quote matt_himself at 19 Oct 2015 12.12pm Quote Oliver at 19 Oct 2015 11.54am Quote matt_himself at 18 Oct 2015 2.51pm Interesting article on how the Palestinian Authority and Abbas appear to be inciting the latest troubles: [Link] What is very interesting is that the article challenges the idea that the recent Palestinian knife attacks on Israeli citizens (both Jewish and Arab Israelis have been attacked) are 'lone wolf' attacks. What’s the agenda for continuously advocating that these are not lone wolf attacks is it so that Israel can then justify the launch of another ground offensive. The knife attacks are dismissed as 'lone wolf' attacks by the anti-Israeli lobby on here. I am not 'advocating' anything just offering a different perspective. It is known as debate. I appreciate that the left is trying to kill debate via bullying and use of emotive imaginery (see your post above regarding a 'ground offensive') but to me it is an important part of human interaction. Well you kicked off the thread by suggesting the next intifada had started. Justification for a ground offensive? Debate do me a favour Silly me. This language from the leader of the Palestinian Authority doesn't at all sound like a call to arms, does it? [Link] The author of that article is a member of Likud. At least try and post stuff from a more neutral perspective. She is, also, clearly a nutcase: "Hotovely rejects Palestinian statehood aspirations, supporting a Greater Israel spanning over the entire land of current Israel along with the Palestinian territories.[12] She later reiterated her hardline position in a speech to Israeli diplomats on 22 May 2015, rejecting criticism from the international community regarding the West Bank settlement policies and saying that Israel has tried too hard to appease the world and must stand up for itself. She has also stated that she will make every effort to achieve global recognition for West Bank settlements (a move which is widely opposed by the international community), as well as asserting that Israel owes no apologies for its policies in the Holy Land towards the Palestinians. She justified her position as she referenced religious texts to back her belief that Judea and Samaria belongs to the Jewish people." Edited by Kermit8 (19 Oct 2015 6.47pm) That is possibly the most ridiculous response I have ever seen on HOL - 'try and post stuff from a more neutral perspective'! You do understand that the concept of a message board is to discuss opinion, not only those that configure with your own views. Your stuff is 'neutral', isn't it? On this thread, Tory threads or any of the other threads you post on. Are you expanding this 'neutral' stance to every subject? Should 'anti austerity' [sic] articles not be posted if they are written by Russel Brand and only those one paragraph articles in the Metro be posted? Should people say 'perhaps' instead of 'would' when asked whether they would do Katie Hopkins up the clacker? Also, are you denying Mahmoud Abbas said the words he is credited with in the article? It appears the 'celebration of spilling Jewish blood' quote is quite well referenced on the Internet. Just so its clear in my mind you think that the words he is credited with in the article is celebrating the spilling of Jewish blood? Judge for yourself: [Link] Having watched this, I find the words 'every drop' are ambiguous, and could be interpreted as being either blood from the killed or the killer. However you view it, he is advocating spilling blood. It doesn't make things better if that blood is Palestinian or Israeli, in my opinion. So, do you still not think he is calling for an intifada. The language in the video doesn't appear to be one of encouraging dialogue and seeking a political solution. Or have I misunderstood the rhetoric? Edited by matt_himself (20 Oct 2015 6.27am) I’m in no doubt he is referring to the spilling of Muslim blood and martyrdom. To put what he said into context it was made against the backdrop of increasing violations by Zionist Jewish settlers against the sanctity of the Al-Aqsa Mosque who have been storming the compound under the protection of the IDF. There is fear amongst Palestinians that Israel wants to take control of the complex which is currently overseen by Jordon. I think people are calling this the third intifada as the second one erupted after Ariel Sharon with a Likuid party delegation forced their way into the Al-Asqa compound protected by armed Israeli riot. So you agree that he is calling for a holy war and encouraging martyrdom and in turn the killing of Israeli's? No. The statement was made mid September and was made in response to Jewish incursions into the Al-Asqa compound. I believe its a defensive action saying that Muslims are willing to die rather let the Al-Asqa Mosque become under Israeli control. Its only a year ago when the Israeli Housing Minister said they were going to knock the mosque and build a synagogue. My view is broadly in line with [Link] Edited by Oliver (20 Oct 2015 1.53pm) I have prepared one of my own time capsules. I have placed some rather large samples of dynamite, gunpowder and nitroglycerin. My time capsule is set to go off in the year 3000. It will show them what we are really like.
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Oliver

Bodega Bay 20 Oct 15 1.50pm

Quote matt_himself at 20 Oct 2015 1.03pm

Quote Oliver at 20 Oct 2015 10.52am

Quote matt_himself at 20 Oct 2015 4.54am

Quote Oliver at 19 Oct 2015 10.34pm

Quote matt_himself at 19 Oct 2015 7.24pm

Quote Kermit8 at 19 Oct 2015 6.45pm

Quote matt_himself at 19 Oct 2015 6.00pm

Quote Oliver at 19 Oct 2015 12.32pm

Quote matt_himself at 19 Oct 2015 12.12pm

Quote Oliver at 19 Oct 2015 11.54am

Quote matt_himself at 18 Oct 2015 2.51pm

Interesting article on how the Palestinian Authority and Abbas appear to be inciting the latest troubles:

[Link]

What is very interesting is that the article challenges the idea that the recent Palestinian knife attacks on Israeli citizens (both Jewish and Arab Israelis have been attacked) are 'lone wolf' attacks.

What’s the agenda for continuously advocating that these are not lone wolf attacks is it so that Israel can then justify the launch of another ground offensive.

The knife attacks are dismissed as 'lone wolf' attacks by the anti-Israeli lobby on here. I am not 'advocating' anything just offering a different perspective.

It is known as debate. I appreciate that the left is trying to kill debate via bullying and use of emotive imaginery (see your post above regarding a 'ground offensive') but to me it is an important part of human interaction.

Well you kicked off the thread by suggesting the next intifada had started. Justification for a ground offensive? Debate do me a favour

Silly me. This language from the leader of the Palestinian Authority doesn't at all sound like a call to arms, does it?

[Link]

The author of that article is a member of Likud. At
least try and post stuff from a more neutral perspective.

She is, also, clearly a nutcase:

"Hotovely rejects Palestinian statehood aspirations, supporting a Greater Israel spanning over the entire land of current Israel along with the Palestinian territories.[12] She later reiterated her hardline position in a speech to Israeli diplomats on 22 May 2015, rejecting criticism from the international community regarding the West Bank settlement policies and saying that Israel has tried too hard to appease the world and must stand up for itself. She has also stated that she will make every effort to achieve global recognition for West Bank settlements (a move which is widely opposed by the international community), as well as asserting that Israel owes no apologies for its policies in the Holy Land towards the Palestinians. She justified her position as she referenced religious texts to back her belief that Judea and Samaria belongs to the Jewish people."

Edited by Kermit8 (19 Oct 2015 6.47pm)

That is possibly the most ridiculous response I have ever seen on HOL - 'try and post stuff from a more neutral perspective'! You do understand that the concept of a message board is to discuss opinion, not only those that configure with your own views.

Your stuff is 'neutral', isn't it? On this thread, Tory threads or any of the other threads you post on. Are you expanding this 'neutral' stance to every subject? Should 'anti austerity' [sic] articles not be posted if they are written by Russel Brand and only those one paragraph articles in the Metro be posted? Should people say 'perhaps' instead of 'would' when asked whether they would do Katie Hopkins up the clacker?

Also, are you denying Mahmoud Abbas said the words he is credited with in the article? It appears the 'celebration of spilling Jewish blood' quote is quite well referenced on the Internet.

Just so its clear in my mind you think that the words he is credited with in the article is celebrating the spilling of Jewish blood?

Judge for yourself:

[Link]

Having watched this, I find the words 'every drop' are ambiguous, and could be interpreted as being either blood from the killed or the killer. However you view it, he is advocating spilling blood. It doesn't make things better if that blood is Palestinian or Israeli, in my opinion.

So, do you still not think he is calling for an intifada. The language in the video doesn't appear to be one of encouraging dialogue and seeking a political solution. Or have I misunderstood the rhetoric?

Edited by matt_himself (20 Oct 2015 6.27am)

I’m in no doubt he is referring to the spilling of Muslim blood and martyrdom.

To put what he said into context it was made against the backdrop of increasing violations by Zionist Jewish settlers against the sanctity of the Al-Aqsa Mosque who have been storming the compound under the protection of the IDF. There is fear amongst Palestinians that Israel wants to take control of the complex which is currently overseen by Jordon.

I think people are calling this the third intifada as the second one erupted after Ariel Sharon with a Likuid party delegation forced their way into the Al-Asqa compound protected by armed Israeli riot.

So you agree that he is calling for a holy war and encouraging martyrdom and in turn the killing of Israeli's?

No. The statement was made mid September and was made in response to Jewish incursions into the Al-Asqa compound. I believe its a defensive action saying that Muslims are willing to die rather let the Al-Asqa Mosque become under Israeli control.

Its only a year ago when the Israeli Housing Minister said they were going to knock the mosque and build a synagogue.

My view is broadly in line with [Link]

Edited by Oliver (20 Oct 2015 1.53pm)

I have prepared one of my own time capsules. I have placed some rather large samples of dynamite, gunpowder and nitroglycerin. My time capsule is set to go off in the year 3000. It will show them what we are really like.

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Oliver Bodega Bay 20 Oct 15 2.05pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 20 Oct 2015 10.35am Quote Oliver at 19 Oct 2015 4.54pm Quote Hoof Hearted at 19 Oct 2015 3.17pm Quote Oliver at 19 Oct 2015 11.45am Quote Hoof Hearted at 17 Oct 2015 11.08am Quote Oliver at 15 Oct 2015 11.59am Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Oct 2015 10.55am Quote Oliver at 12 Oct 2015 10.47am Quote Hoof Hearted at 11 Oct 2015 3.44pm Quote nickgusset at 11 Oct 2015 11.45am Quote Hoof Hearted at 11 Oct 2015 11.41am Quote serial thriller at 11 Oct 2015 11.37am Quote Hoof Hearted at 11 Oct 2015 11.29am Quote serial thriller at 11 Oct 2015 11.18am Quote matt_himself at 11 Oct 2015 7.47am Quote Kermit8 at 10 Oct 2015 10.52pm Two kids shot dead by Israeli soldiers today. Here we go again. And where are the brave Palestinian leaders who direct and incite the kids into throwing stones and Molotov cocktails at IDF soldiers, who in turn fire into crowds who are physically threatening them? They are hidden in areas populated by ordinary people, knowing that Israeli bombs aimed at them will slaughter their own. They are no doubt on the phone to Riyadh and Doha, arranging more money to be sent to them to continue the 'struggle'. Blaming Israel for this is too simplistic and wrong. The Palestinian leaders need to be held up for scrutiny. During the last siege of Gaza, Amnesty international did a month long investigation and found no evidence at all of human shielding being used. It is a complete myth created by a state seeking moral justification for bombing children. And Amnesty International had no political agenda that they were working to? Of course they found no evidence.... they weren't looking for any! Please tell us what Amnesty's agenda is Hoof, I was clearly of the mistaken belief that they were a non-partisan charity! You won't find many right wing thinking people affiliated to them Serial. Right wingers not caring about others shocker! Au Contraire Nickle-arse....... I actually do care about others, but in this case it's the Israelis/Jewish people. Just in case any body forgot or wasn't paying attention in History classes at school, the Jews were treated pretty badly from about 1930 to 1945 by Hitler and the Nazis (and probably Stalin and his regime). The state of Israel was created to give the Jewish people a "spiritual home" and universal agreement to this creation was sanctioned by the UN. Since it's creation, neighbouring Arab countries have tried to wage war with Israel, but so far have got a bloody nose. Bearing in mind the treatment Jews have experienced since 1930 is it any wonder that they are fed up with Arab aggression, do not trust Arabs and will not rule out any measures to protect their borders and population. The Palestinians are just sh1t-stirring and deserve all the retaliation that they get from Israel when it is always them that breaks the ceasefires. Did the History you studied in school start in 1930 and was taught by ex member of Irgun How amusing......... Having thought about your reply a little deeper I can say that the millions of Jews killed in the holocaust probably wouldn't find your riposte amusing. Edited by Hoof Hearted (13 Oct 2015 10.32am) You seem completely unaware that Jews have suffered persecution for centuries it didn’t start with the Nazis. The treatment they suffered under Tsarist Russia caused them to flee in their millions initially to US and then with the rise of Zionism and the First and Second Aliyahs to Palestine changing the demography of the area forever. To say the land was given to the Jewish people with universal agreement is wrong. The fact that you acknowledge that Jews have been persecuted for centuries strengthens my argument. Their treatment by the Nazis was probably the most extreme, nearly wiping out their presence in Europe at least. Certainly that experience being so recent in history might explain their distrust of antagonistic nations and desire to hit back? With regard to your last point - wasn't the matter debated by the UN and voted on? That suggests universal agreement to me. Now we have established you have no historical knowledge of the region or its geopolitics. We will move on to English vocabulary go and look up the meaning of universal in a dictionary and then look up the result of the vote for General Assembly Resolution 181. No........ we'll cease to communicate with each other because you are incapable of reasoned debate by resorting to petty sniping and insults - the classic response by those individuals that cannot rely on straightforward arguments. Absolutely pathetic response Maybe you should cease posting on matters on which you have have little knowledge of or the desire to educate yourself. Maybe you should stop making assumptions about other people's knowledge of history/geography and grow up a little bit? When I mentioned the holocaust earlier you accused me of knowing nothing about the Jews being persecuted for centuries before.... even Sherlock Holmes would not deduce what you did from that one statement. How could my mentioning the holocaust give any indication of my overall knowledge of their historical plight? Then you try to be smug about the meaning of 'universal' when it was obvious that I was not including the Arab countries (they were and always have been opposed to the state of Israel) and any other nation not in the UN that wasn't part of the debate. My point was that Israel is legally a nation whereas Palestine isn't. But hey ho rather than putting across a valid point in support of any argument you may have, you decide instead to be aggressive about literal meanings of words. You are ridiculous. I had a good education and have done well in life with a balanced view of world affairs. In this debate I have tried to persuade you and others that the Israelis are not complicit for all the ills of the region and have suffered antagonistic provocation from the surrounding Arab countries. You have just countered my points with petty point scoring and insults. I prefer to debate with sensible adults that do not resort to the childish strategy that you employ. That is my last interchange with you on the matter as I have not the time to play with children.. You're telling me to grow up. I thought you had flounced off earlier when your previous post was the last time you were communicating with me. If you are going to make false or inflammatory statements like you have then expect to be challenged. If you can't stand my heat get out of my kitchen. I suspect you'll reply to this so you can have the last word. Edited by Oliver (20 Oct 2015 2.06pm) I have prepared one of my own time capsules. I have placed some rather large samples of dynamite, gunpowder and nitroglycerin. My time capsule is set to go off in the year 3000. It will show them what we are really like.
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Oliver

Bodega Bay 20 Oct 15 2.05pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 20 Oct 2015 10.35am

Quote Oliver at 19 Oct 2015 4.54pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 19 Oct 2015 3.17pm

Quote Oliver at 19 Oct 2015 11.45am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 17 Oct 2015 11.08am

Quote Oliver at 15 Oct 2015 11.59am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Oct 2015 10.55am

Quote Oliver at 12 Oct 2015 10.47am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 11 Oct 2015 3.44pm

Quote nickgusset at 11 Oct 2015 11.45am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 11 Oct 2015 11.41am

Quote serial thriller at 11 Oct 2015 11.37am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 11 Oct 2015 11.29am

Quote serial thriller at 11 Oct 2015 11.18am

Quote matt_himself at 11 Oct 2015 7.47am

Quote Kermit8 at 10 Oct 2015 10.52pm

Two kids shot dead by Israeli soldiers today.

Here we go again.

And where are the brave Palestinian leaders who direct and incite the kids into throwing stones and Molotov cocktails at IDF soldiers, who in turn fire into crowds who are physically threatening them?

They are hidden in areas populated by ordinary people, knowing that Israeli bombs aimed at them will slaughter their own. They are no doubt on the phone to Riyadh and Doha, arranging more money to be sent to them to continue the 'struggle'.

Blaming Israel for this is too simplistic and wrong. The Palestinian leaders need to be held up for scrutiny.

During the last siege of Gaza, Amnesty international did a month long investigation and found no evidence at all of human shielding being used. It is a complete myth created by a state seeking moral justification for bombing children.

And Amnesty International had no political agenda that they were working to?

Of course they found no evidence.... they weren't looking for any!

Please tell us what Amnesty's agenda is Hoof, I was clearly of the mistaken belief that they were a non-partisan charity!

You won't find many right wing thinking people affiliated to them Serial.

Right wingers not caring about others shocker!

Au Contraire Nickle-arse.......

I actually do care about others, but in this case it's the Israelis/Jewish people.

Just in case any body forgot or wasn't paying attention in History classes at school, the Jews were treated pretty badly from about 1930 to 1945 by Hitler and the Nazis (and probably Stalin and his regime).

The state of Israel was created to give the Jewish people a "spiritual home" and universal agreement to this creation was sanctioned by the UN.

Since it's creation, neighbouring Arab countries have tried to wage war with Israel, but so far have got a bloody nose.

Bearing in mind the treatment Jews have experienced since 1930 is it any wonder that they are fed up with Arab aggression, do not trust Arabs and will not rule out any measures to protect their borders and population.

The Palestinians are just sh1t-stirring and deserve all the retaliation that they get from Israel when it is always them that breaks the ceasefires.

Did the History you studied in school start in 1930 and was taught by ex member of Irgun

How amusing.........

Having thought about your reply a little deeper I can say that the millions of Jews killed in the holocaust probably wouldn't find your riposte amusing.

Edited by Hoof Hearted (13 Oct 2015 10.32am)

You seem completely unaware that Jews have suffered persecution for centuries it didn’t start with the Nazis.

The treatment they suffered under Tsarist Russia caused them to flee in their millions initially to US and then with the rise of Zionism and the First and Second Aliyahs to Palestine changing the demography of the area forever.

To say the land was given to the Jewish people with universal agreement is wrong.

The fact that you acknowledge that Jews have been persecuted for centuries strengthens my argument. Their treatment by the Nazis was probably the most extreme, nearly wiping out their presence in Europe at least. Certainly that experience being so recent in history might explain their distrust of antagonistic nations and desire to hit back?

With regard to your last point - wasn't the matter debated by the UN and voted on? That suggests universal agreement to me.

Now we have established you have no historical knowledge of the region or its geopolitics. We will move on to English vocabulary go and look up the meaning of universal in a dictionary and then look up the result of the vote for General Assembly Resolution 181.

No........ we'll cease to communicate with each other because you are incapable of reasoned debate by resorting to petty sniping and insults - the classic response by those individuals that cannot rely on straightforward arguments.

Absolutely pathetic response

Maybe you should cease posting on matters on which you have have little knowledge of or the desire to educate yourself.

Maybe you should stop making assumptions about other people's knowledge of history/geography and grow up a little bit?

When I mentioned the holocaust earlier you accused me of knowing nothing about the Jews being persecuted for centuries before.... even Sherlock Holmes would not deduce what you did from that one statement. How could my mentioning the holocaust give any indication of my overall knowledge of their historical plight?

Then you try to be smug about the meaning of 'universal' when it was obvious that I was not including the Arab countries (they were and always have been opposed to the state of Israel) and any other nation not in the UN that wasn't part of the debate. My point was that Israel is legally a nation whereas Palestine isn't. But hey ho rather than putting across a valid point in support of any argument you may have, you decide instead to be aggressive about literal meanings of words.

You are ridiculous.

I had a good education and have done well in life with a balanced view of world affairs. In this debate I have tried to persuade you and others that the Israelis are not complicit for all the ills of the region and have suffered antagonistic provocation from the surrounding Arab countries. You have just countered my points with petty point scoring and insults.

I prefer to debate with sensible adults that do not resort to the childish strategy that you employ.

That is my last interchange with you on the matter as I have not the time to play with children..

You're telling me to grow up. I thought you had flounced off earlier when your previous post was the last time you were communicating with me.

If you are going to make false or inflammatory statements like you have then expect to be challenged.

If you can't stand my heat get out of my kitchen. I suspect you'll reply to this so you can have the last word.

Edited by Oliver (20 Oct 2015 2.06pm)

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matt_himself Matataland 20 Oct 15 4.44pm
Quote Oliver at 20 Oct 2015 1.50pm Quote matt_himself at 20 Oct 2015 1.03pm Quote Oliver at 20 Oct 2015 10.52am Quote matt_himself at 20 Oct 2015 4.54am Quote Oliver at 19 Oct 2015 10.34pm Quote matt_himself at 19 Oct 2015 7.24pm Quote Kermit8 at 19 Oct 2015 6.45pm Quote matt_himself at 19 Oct 2015 6.00pm Quote Oliver at 19 Oct 2015 12.32pm Quote matt_himself at 19 Oct 2015 12.12pm Quote Oliver at 19 Oct 2015 11.54am Quote matt_himself at 18 Oct 2015 2.51pm Interesting article on how the Palestinian Authority and Abbas appear to be inciting the latest troubles: [Link] What is very interesting is that the article challenges the idea that the recent Palestinian knife attacks on Israeli citizens (both Jewish and Arab Israelis have been attacked) are 'lone wolf' attacks. What’s the agenda for continuously advocating that these are not lone wolf attacks is it so that Israel can then justify the launch of another ground offensive. The knife attacks are dismissed as 'lone wolf' attacks by the anti-Israeli lobby on here. I am not 'advocating' anything just offering a different perspective. It is known as debate. I appreciate that the left is trying to kill debate via bullying and use of emotive imaginery (see your post above regarding a 'ground offensive') but to me it is an important part of human interaction. Well you kicked off the thread by suggesting the next intifada had started. Justification for a ground offensive? Debate do me a favour Silly me. This language from the leader of the Palestinian Authority doesn't at all sound like a call to arms, does it? [Link] The author of that article is a member of Likud. At least try and post stuff from a more neutral perspective. She is, also, clearly a nutcase: "Hotovely rejects Palestinian statehood aspirations, supporting a Greater Israel spanning over the entire land of current Israel along with the Palestinian territories.[12] She later reiterated her hardline position in a speech to Israeli diplomats on 22 May 2015, rejecting criticism from the international community regarding the West Bank settlement policies and saying that Israel has tried too hard to appease the world and must stand up for itself. She has also stated that she will make every effort to achieve global recognition for West Bank settlements (a move which is widely opposed by the international community), as well as asserting that Israel owes no apologies for its policies in the Holy Land towards the Palestinians. She justified her position as she referenced religious texts to back her belief that Judea and Samaria belongs to the Jewish people." Edited by Kermit8 (19 Oct 2015 6.47pm) That is possibly the most ridiculous response I have ever seen on HOL - 'try and post stuff from a more neutral perspective'! You do understand that the concept of a message board is to discuss opinion, not only those that configure with your own views. Your stuff is 'neutral', isn't it? On this thread, Tory threads or any of the other threads you post on. Are you expanding this 'neutral' stance to every subject? Should 'anti austerity' [sic] articles not be posted if they are written by Russel Brand and only those one paragraph articles in the Metro be posted? Should people say 'perhaps' instead of 'would' when asked whether they would do Katie Hopkins up the clacker? Also, are you denying Mahmoud Abbas said the words he is credited with in the article? It appears the 'celebration of spilling Jewish blood' quote is quite well referenced on the Internet. Just so its clear in my mind you think that the words he is credited with in the article is celebrating the spilling of Jewish blood? Judge for yourself: [Link] Having watched this, I find the words 'every drop' are ambiguous, and could be interpreted as being either blood from the killed or the killer. However you view it, he is advocating spilling blood. It doesn't make things better if that blood is Palestinian or Israeli, in my opinion. So, do you still not think he is calling for an intifada. The language in the video doesn't appear to be one of encouraging dialogue and seeking a political solution. Or have I misunderstood the rhetoric? Edited by matt_himself (20 Oct 2015 6.27am) I’m in no doubt he is referring to the spilling of Muslim blood and martyrdom. To put what he said into context it was made against the backdrop of increasing violations by Zionist Jewish settlers against the sanctity of the Al-Aqsa Mosque who have been storming the compound under the protection of the IDF. There is fear amongst Palestinians that Israel wants to take control of the complex which is currently overseen by Jordon. I think people are calling this the third intifada as the second one erupted after Ariel Sharon with a Likuid party delegation forced their way into the Al-Asqa compound protected by armed Israeli riot. So you agree that he is calling for a holy war and encouraging martyrdom and in turn the killing of Israeli's? No. The statement was made mid September and was made in response to Jewish incursions into the Al-Asqa compound. I believe its a defensive action saying that Muslims are willing to die rather let the Al-Asqa Mosque become under Israeli control. Its only a year ago when the Israeli Housing Minister said they were going to knock the mosque and build a synagogue. My view is broadly in line with [Link] Edited by Oliver (20 Oct 2015 1.53pm) How is 'being willing to die rather than allowing the Al-Asqa mosque to fall under Israel control' not religious martyrdom? "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 20 Oct 15 4.44pm

Quote Oliver at 20 Oct 2015 1.50pm

Quote matt_himself at 20 Oct 2015 1.03pm

Quote Oliver at 20 Oct 2015 10.52am

Quote matt_himself at 20 Oct 2015 4.54am

Quote Oliver at 19 Oct 2015 10.34pm

Quote matt_himself at 19 Oct 2015 7.24pm

Quote Kermit8 at 19 Oct 2015 6.45pm

Quote matt_himself at 19 Oct 2015 6.00pm

Quote Oliver at 19 Oct 2015 12.32pm

Quote matt_himself at 19 Oct 2015 12.12pm

Quote Oliver at 19 Oct 2015 11.54am

Quote matt_himself at 18 Oct 2015 2.51pm

Interesting article on how the Palestinian Authority and Abbas appear to be inciting the latest troubles:

[Link]

What’s the agenda for continuously advocating that these are not lone wolf attacks is it so that Israel can then justify the launch of another ground offensive.

The knife attacks are dismissed as 'lone wolf' attacks by the anti-Israeli lobby on here. I am not 'advocating' anything just offering a different perspective.

Well you kicked off the thread by suggesting the next intifada had started. Justification for a ground offensive? Debate do me a favour

Silly me. This language from the leader of the Palestinian Authority doesn't at all sound like a call to arms, does it?

[Link]

The author of that article is a member of Likud. At
least try and post stuff from a more neutral perspective.

She is, also, clearly a nutcase:

Edited by Kermit8 (19 Oct 2015 6.47pm)

Also, are you denying Mahmoud Abbas said the words he is credited with in the article? It appears the 'celebration of spilling Jewish blood' quote is quite well referenced on the Internet.

Just so its clear in my mind you think that the words he is credited with in the article is celebrating the spilling of Jewish blood?

Judge for yourself:

[Link]

Edited by matt_himself (20 Oct 2015 6.27am)

I’m in no doubt he is referring to the spilling of Muslim blood and martyrdom.

So you agree that he is calling for a holy war and encouraging martyrdom and in turn the killing of Israeli's?

Its only a year ago when the Israeli Housing Minister said they were going to knock the mosque and build a synagogue.

My view is broadly in line with [Link]

Edited by Oliver (20 Oct 2015 1.53pm)

How is 'being willing to die rather than allowing the Al-Asqa mosque to fall under Israel control' not religious martyrdom?

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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Oliver Bodega Bay 20 Oct 15 5.56pm
Quote matt_himself at 20 Oct 2015 4.44pm Quote Oliver at 20 Oct 2015 1.50pm Quote matt_himself at 20 Oct 2015 1.03pm Quote Oliver at 20 Oct 2015 10.52am Quote matt_himself at 20 Oct 2015 4.54am Quote Oliver at 19 Oct 2015 10.34pm Quote matt_himself at 19 Oct 2015 7.24pm Quote Kermit8 at 19 Oct 2015 6.45pm Quote matt_himself at 19 Oct 2015 6.00pm Quote Oliver at 19 Oct 2015 12.32pm Quote matt_himself at 19 Oct 2015 12.12pm Quote Oliver at 19 Oct 2015 11.54am Quote matt_himself at 18 Oct 2015 2.51pm Interesting article on how the Palestinian Authority and Abbas appear to be inciting the latest troubles: [Link] What is very interesting is that the article challenges the idea that the recent Palestinian knife attacks on Israeli citizens (both Jewish and Arab Israelis have been attacked) are 'lone wolf' attacks. What’s the agenda for continuously advocating that these are not lone wolf attacks is it so that Israel can then justify the launch of another ground offensive. The knife attacks are dismissed as 'lone wolf' attacks by the anti-Israeli lobby on here. I am not 'advocating' anything just offering a different perspective. It is known as debate. I appreciate that the left is trying to kill debate via bullying and use of emotive imaginery (see your post above regarding a 'ground offensive') but to me it is an important part of human interaction. Well you kicked off the thread by suggesting the next intifada had started. Justification for a ground offensive? Debate do me a favour Silly me. This language from the leader of the Palestinian Authority doesn't at all sound like a call to arms, does it? [Link] The author of that article is a member of Likud. At least try and post stuff from a more neutral perspective. She is, also, clearly a nutcase: "Hotovely rejects Palestinian statehood aspirations, supporting a Greater Israel spanning over the entire land of current Israel along with the Palestinian territories.[12] She later reiterated her hardline position in a speech to Israeli diplomats on 22 May 2015, rejecting criticism from the international community regarding the West Bank settlement policies and saying that Israel has tried too hard to appease the world and must stand up for itself. She has also stated that she will make every effort to achieve global recognition for West Bank settlements (a move which is widely opposed by the international community), as well as asserting that Israel owes no apologies for its policies in the Holy Land towards the Palestinians. She justified her position as she referenced religious texts to back her belief that Judea and Samaria belongs to the Jewish people." Edited by Kermit8 (19 Oct 2015 6.47pm) That is possibly the most ridiculous response I have ever seen on HOL - 'try and post stuff from a more neutral perspective'! You do understand that the concept of a message board is to discuss opinion, not only those that configure with your own views. Your stuff is 'neutral', isn't it? On this thread, Tory threads or any of the other threads you post on. Are you expanding this 'neutral' stance to every subject? Should 'anti austerity' [sic] articles not be posted if they are written by Russel Brand and only those one paragraph articles in the Metro be posted? Should people say 'perhaps' instead of 'would' when asked whether they would do Katie Hopkins up the clacker? Also, are you denying Mahmoud Abbas said the words he is credited with in the article? It appears the 'celebration of spilling Jewish blood' quote is quite well referenced on the Internet. Just so its clear in my mind you think that the words he is credited with in the article is celebrating the spilling of Jewish blood? Judge for yourself: [Link] Having watched this, I find the words 'every drop' are ambiguous, and could be interpreted as being either blood from the killed or the killer. However you view it, he is advocating spilling blood. It doesn't make things better if that blood is Palestinian or Israeli, in my opinion. So, do you still not think he is calling for an intifada. The language in the video doesn't appear to be one of encouraging dialogue and seeking a political solution. Or have I misunderstood the rhetoric? Edited by matt_himself (20 Oct 2015 6.27am) I’m in no doubt he is referring to the spilling of Muslim blood and martyrdom. To put what he said into context it was made against the backdrop of increasing violations by Zionist Jewish settlers against the sanctity of the Al-Aqsa Mosque who have been storming the compound under the protection of the IDF. There is fear amongst Palestinians that Israel wants to take control of the complex which is currently overseen by Jordon. I think people are calling this the third intifada as the second one erupted after Ariel Sharon with a Likuid party delegation forced their way into the Al-Asqa compound protected by armed Israeli riot. So you agree that he is calling for a holy war and encouraging martyrdom and in turn the killing of Israeli's? No. The statement was made mid September and was made in response to Jewish incursions into the Al-Asqa compound. I believe its a defensive action saying that Muslims are willing to die rather let the Al-Asqa Mosque become under Israeli control. Its only a year ago when the Israeli Housing Minister said they were going to knock the mosque and build a synagogue. My view is broadly in line with [Link] Edited by Oliver (20 Oct 2015 1.53pm) How is 'being willing to die rather than allowing the Al-Asqa mosque to fall under Israel control' not religious martyrdom? I was disagreeing with 2/3 of your statement he's not calling for a holy war or attacks on Jews, but yes martyrdom in the event Israel attack the mosque or try to take control of it. I have prepared one of my own time capsules. I have placed some rather large samples of dynamite, gunpowder and nitroglycerin. My time capsule is set to go off in the year 3000. It will show them what we are really like.
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Oliver

Bodega Bay 20 Oct 15 5.56pm

Quote matt_himself at 20 Oct 2015 4.44pm

Quote Oliver at 20 Oct 2015 1.50pm

Quote matt_himself at 20 Oct 2015 1.03pm

Quote Oliver at 20 Oct 2015 10.52am

Quote matt_himself at 20 Oct 2015 4.54am

Quote Oliver at 19 Oct 2015 10.34pm

Quote matt_himself at 19 Oct 2015 7.24pm

Quote Kermit8 at 19 Oct 2015 6.45pm

Quote matt_himself at 19 Oct 2015 6.00pm

Quote Oliver at 19 Oct 2015 12.32pm

Quote matt_himself at 19 Oct 2015 12.12pm

Quote Oliver at 19 Oct 2015 11.54am

Quote matt_himself at 18 Oct 2015 2.51pm

Interesting article on how the Palestinian Authority and Abbas appear to be inciting the latest troubles:

[Link]

What’s the agenda for continuously advocating that these are not lone wolf attacks is it so that Israel can then justify the launch of another ground offensive.

The knife attacks are dismissed as 'lone wolf' attacks by the anti-Israeli lobby on here. I am not 'advocating' anything just offering a different perspective.

Well you kicked off the thread by suggesting the next intifada had started. Justification for a ground offensive? Debate do me a favour

Silly me. This language from the leader of the Palestinian Authority doesn't at all sound like a call to arms, does it?

[Link]

The author of that article is a member of Likud. At
least try and post stuff from a more neutral perspective.

She is, also, clearly a nutcase:

Edited by Kermit8 (19 Oct 2015 6.47pm)

Also, are you denying Mahmoud Abbas said the words he is credited with in the article? It appears the 'celebration of spilling Jewish blood' quote is quite well referenced on the Internet.

Just so its clear in my mind you think that the words he is credited with in the article is celebrating the spilling of Jewish blood?

Judge for yourself:

[Link]

Edited by matt_himself (20 Oct 2015 6.27am)

I’m in no doubt he is referring to the spilling of Muslim blood and martyrdom.

So you agree that he is calling for a holy war and encouraging martyrdom and in turn the killing of Israeli's?

Its only a year ago when the Israeli Housing Minister said they were going to knock the mosque and build a synagogue.

My view is broadly in line with [Link]

Edited by Oliver (20 Oct 2015 1.53pm)

How is 'being willing to die rather than allowing the Al-Asqa mosque to fall under Israel control' not religious martyrdom?

I was disagreeing with 2/3 of your statement he's not calling for a holy war or attacks on Jews, but yes martyrdom in the event Israel attack the mosque or try to take control of it.

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Kermit8 Hevon 20 Oct 15 7.20pm
As Israel is the only nation in history to have been founded via a religion then it follows that it could be argued that those who fight in its name, and are prepared to spill their own blood, would also have to classified as religious martyrs. And that their leaders who give them the orders to fight are no different to the zealots of Hamas or any other Palestinian hierarchy who encourage attacks. Although with the weaponry they have they could be classified as worse. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 20 Oct 15 7.20pm

As Israel is the only nation in history to have been founded via a religion then it follows that it could be argued that those who fight in its name, and are prepared to spill their own blood, would also have to classified as religious martyrs. And that their leaders who give them the orders to fight are no different to the zealots of Hamas or any other Palestinian hierarchy who encourage attacks.

Although with the weaponry they have they could be classified as worse.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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sydtheeagle England 20 Oct 15 7.30pm
Quote rob1969 at 10 Oct 2015 10.47am As in most conflicts the majority of people on both sides just want peace and to be allowed to get on with their lives but events are dictate by extremists - on both side - who are unwilling to compromise. In my experience (multiple visits to Israel for work in recent years), this is pretty much true. Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.
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sydtheeagle

England 20 Oct 15 7.30pm

Quote rob1969 at 10 Oct 2015 10.47am

As in most conflicts the majority of people on both sides just want peace and to be allowed to get on with their lives but events are dictate by extremists - on both side - who are unwilling to compromise.

In my experience (multiple visits to Israel for work in recent years), this is pretty much true.

Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

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sydtheeagle England 20 Oct 15 7.35pm
Quote Kermit8 at 20 Oct 2015 7.20pm As Israel is the only nation in history to have been founded via a religion then it follows that it could be argued that those who fight in its name, and are prepared to spill their own blood, would also have to classified as religious martyrs. And that their leaders who give them the orders to fight are no different to the zealots of Hamas or any other Palestinian hierarchy who encourage attacks. Although with the weaponry they have they could be classified as worse. The creation of the State of Israel was as much a convenience for post-war Europe as anything else, first assuaging its own post-holocaust guilt, then providing the Communist bloc with a perceived ally and, when that didn't work out, providing Stalin with a dumping ground for his own "Jewish problem". To say it was created by a religion is true on one level and facile on another. I have little time for what the Israeli's are presently doing to the Palestinians (actually, I have no time at all) but I really don't think theirs is a religious war. It's just a land war, same as most of the others. Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.
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sydtheeagle

England 20 Oct 15 7.35pm

Quote Kermit8 at 20 Oct 2015 7.20pm

Although with the weaponry they have they could be classified as worse.

The creation of the State of Israel was as much a convenience for post-war Europe as anything else, first assuaging its own post-holocaust guilt, then providing the Communist bloc with a perceived ally and, when that didn't work out, providing Stalin with a dumping ground for his own "Jewish problem". To say it was created by a religion is true on one level and facile on another. I have little time for what the Israeli's are presently doing to the Palestinians (actually, I have no time at all) but I really don't think theirs is a religious war. It's just a land war, same as most of the others.

Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

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matt_himself Matataland 20 Oct 15 7.51pm
Quote Kermit8 at 20 Oct 2015 7.20pm As Israel is the only nation in history to have been founded via a religion then it follows that it could be argued that those who fight in its name, and are prepared to spill their own blood, would also have to classified as religious martyrs. And that their leaders who give them the orders to fight are no different to the zealots of Hamas or any other Palestinian hierarchy who encourage attacks. Although with the weaponry they have they could be classified as worse. Please do show us a video where the present leader of Israel is stating that his people should and would celebrate the 'spilling of blood' and is urging martyrdom. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 20 Oct 15 7.51pm

Quote Kermit8 at 20 Oct 2015 7.20pm

Although with the weaponry they have they could be classified as worse.

Please do show us a video where the present leader of Israel is stating that his people should and would celebrate the 'spilling of blood' and is urging martyrdom.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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Kermit8 Hevon 20 Oct 15 9.00pm
Quote matt_himself at 20 Oct 2015 7.51pm Quote Kermit8 at 20 Oct 2015 7.20pm As Israel is the only nation in history to have been founded via a religion then it follows that it could be argued that those who fight in its name, and are prepared to spill their own blood, would also have to classified as religious martyrs. And that their leaders who give them the orders to fight are no different to the zealots of Hamas or any other Palestinian hierarchy who encourage attacks. Although with the weaponry they have they could be classified as worse. Please do show us a video where the present leader of Israel is stating that his people should and would celebrate the 'spilling of blood' and is urging martyrdom. It's in the same collection with those other videos showing Palestinians demolishing 10,000 Israeli homes, their military killing 500 children, and flying their fighter jets low at 3am to intimidate. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 20 Oct 15 9.00pm

Quote matt_himself at 20 Oct 2015 7.51pm

Quote Kermit8 at 20 Oct 2015 7.20pm

Although with the weaponry they have they could be classified as worse.

Please do show us a video where the present leader of Israel is stating that his people should and would celebrate the 'spilling of blood' and is urging martyrdom.

It's in the same collection with those other videos showing Palestinians demolishing 10,000 Israeli homes, their military killing 500 children, and flying their fighter jets low at 3am to intimidate.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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matt_himself Matataland 20 Oct 15 9.06pm
Quote Kermit8 at 20 Oct 2015 9.00pm Quote matt_himself at 20 Oct 2015 7.51pm Quote Kermit8 at 20 Oct 2015 7.20pm As Israel is the only nation in history to have been founded via a religion then it follows that it could be argued that those who fight in its name, and are prepared to spill their own blood, would also have to classified as religious martyrs. And that their leaders who give them the orders to fight are no different to the zealots of Hamas or any other Palestinian hierarchy who encourage attacks. Although with the weaponry they have they could be classified as worse. Please do show us a video where the present leader of Israel is stating that his people should and would celebrate the 'spilling of blood' and is urging martyrdom. It's in the same collection with those other videos showing Palestinians demolishing 10,000 Israeli homes, their military killing 500 children, and flying their fighter jets low at 3am to intimidate. 'And their leaders who give them the orders to fight are no different from the zealots of Hamas or any other Palestinian hierarchy who encourage attacks'. Your words. Show me the proof that the present Isreali leader is ordering his people to 'celebrate the spilling of blood' as the leader of the Palestinians has done. Thank you. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 20 Oct 15 9.06pm

Quote Kermit8 at 20 Oct 2015 9.00pm

Quote matt_himself at 20 Oct 2015 7.51pm

Quote Kermit8 at 20 Oct 2015 7.20pm

Although with the weaponry they have they could be classified as worse.

Please do show us a video where the present leader of Israel is stating that his people should and would celebrate the 'spilling of blood' and is urging martyrdom.

It's in the same collection with those other videos showing Palestinians demolishing 10,000 Israeli homes, their military killing 500 children, and flying their fighter jets low at 3am to intimidate.

'And their leaders who give them the orders to fight are no different from the zealots of Hamas or any other Palestinian hierarchy who encourage attacks'.

Your words. Show me the proof that the present Isreali leader is ordering his people to 'celebrate the spilling of blood' as the leader of the Palestinians has done.

Thank you.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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Kermit8 Hevon 20 Oct 15 9.57pm
G Quote matt_himself at 20 Oct 2015 9.06pm Quote Kermit8 at 20 Oct 2015 9.00pm Quote matt_himself at 20 Oct 2015 7.51pm Quote Kermit8 at 20 Oct 2015 7.20pm As Israel is the only nation in history to have been founded via a religion then it follows that it could be argued that those who fight in its name, and are prepared to spill their own blood, would also have to classified as religious martyrs. And that their leaders who give them the orders to fight are no different to the zealots of Hamas or any other Palestinian hierarchy who encourage attacks. Although with the weaponry they have they could be classified as worse. Please do show us a video where the present leader of Israel is stating that his people should and would celebrate the 'spilling of blood' and is urging martyrdom. It's in the same collection with those other videos showing Palestinians demolishing 10,000 Israeli homes, their military killing 500 children, and flying their fighter jets low at 3am to intimidate. 'And their leaders who give them the orders to fight are no different from the zealots of Hamas or any other Palestinian hierarchy who encourage attacks'. Your words. Show me the proof that the present Isreali leader is ordering his people to 'celebrate the spilling of blood' as the leader of the Palestinians has done. Thank you. Sorry, fella, but your out of context post doesn't make much sense with regard to my full post earlier. If Israel is a state founded on religion then it makes sense that it's defence forces are fighting in part for that. It's not too hard to grasp. So when the Israeli leaders give military orders to the IDF they are doing it in the name of Judaism are they not? And that is religious zealotry. I have made no claim that they have used exactly those same words as the Palestinian, Why are you angling that I have? Edited by Kermit8 (20 Oct 2015 10.00pm) Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 20 Oct 15 9.57pm

Quote matt_himself at 20 Oct 2015 9.06pm

Quote Kermit8 at 20 Oct 2015 9.00pm

Quote matt_himself at 20 Oct 2015 7.51pm

Quote Kermit8 at 20 Oct 2015 7.20pm

Although with the weaponry they have they could be classified as worse.

Please do show us a video where the present leader of Israel is stating that his people should and would celebrate the 'spilling of blood' and is urging martyrdom.

It's in the same collection with those other videos showing Palestinians demolishing 10,000 Israeli homes, their military killing 500 children, and flying their fighter jets low at 3am to intimidate.

'And their leaders who give them the orders to fight are no different from the zealots of Hamas or any other Palestinian hierarchy who encourage attacks'.

Your words. Show me the proof that the present Isreali leader is ordering his people to 'celebrate the spilling of blood' as the leader of the Palestinians has done.

Thank you.

Sorry, fella, but your out of context post doesn't make much sense with regard to my full post earlier. If Israel is a state founded on religion then it makes sense that it's defence forces are fighting in part for that. It's not too hard to grasp.

So when the Israeli leaders give military orders to the IDF they are doing it in the name of Judaism are they not?

And that is religious zealotry.

I have made no claim that they have used exactly those same words as the Palestinian, Why are you angling that I have?

Edited by Kermit8 (20 Oct 2015 10.00pm)

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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