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EU Renegotiation

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View npn's Profile npn Flag Crowborough 02 Feb 16 1.37pm Send a Private Message to npn Add npn as a friend

So, looks like this is all Cameron managed to get

[Link]

I've always leaned towards staying in, but I can't see any way Cameron can spin this as anything other than a "get stuffed" from the EU.

Anyone think he's actually achieved anything here?

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 02 Feb 16 1.45pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by npn

So, looks like this is all Cameron managed to get

[Link]

I've always leaned towards staying in, but I can't see any way Cameron can spin this as anything other than a "get stuffed" from the EU.

Anyone think he's actually achieved anything here?

I'm seriously thinking about voting "out".

I want British affairs decided by a British Parliament.
There will be negative consequences which ever people choose.

 

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View beagle's Profile beagle Flag pom tiddly om pom pom 02 Feb 16 1.49pm Send a Private Message to beagle Add beagle as a friend

Originally posted by npn

So, looks like this is all Cameron managed to get

[Link]

I've always leaned towards staying in, but I can't see any way Cameron can spin this as anything other than a "get stuffed" from the EU.

Anyone think he's actually achieved anything here?

Its a nothing achievement in my book.

A 'meh' moment.

 


When the time comes, I want die just like my Dad - at peace and asleep.
Not screaming and terrified.
Like his passengers.

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View topcat's Profile topcat Flag Holmesdale / Surbiton 02 Feb 16 2.48pm Send a Private Message to topcat Add topcat as a friend

It's a surprise as he's usually so good at negotiating. We all, presumably, remember that Cameron and Osborne were refusing to pay the "totally unacceptable" £1.7 billion EU surcharge.

Cameron "We are not going suddenly to get out our cheque book and write a cheque for two billion euros. It is not going to happen"

Osborne "We have halved the bill (to £850 million) it's a result for Britain.

They ended up delaying the payment until after the election and paying it in full. It was probably not a cheque though.

Fantastic negotiation.

 


It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.

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View npn's Profile npn Flag Crowborough 02 Feb 16 2.57pm Send a Private Message to npn Add npn as a friend

Originally posted by topcat

It's a surprise as he's usually so good at negotiating. We all, presumably, remember that Cameron and Osborne were refusing to pay the "totally unacceptable" £1.7 billion EU surcharge.

Cameron "We are not going suddenly to get out our cheque book and write a cheque for two billion euros. It is not going to happen"

Osborne "We have halved the bill (to £850 million) it's a result for Britain.

They ended up delaying the payment until after the election and paying it in full. It was probably not a cheque though.

Fantastic negotiation.

He's backed himself into a corner with this one - "vote to come out if I don't get a good deal", now he's got to try to convince everyone that what he is coming back with (nothing) is a really good deal!

 

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View Stuk's Profile Stuk Flag Top half 02 Feb 16 3.03pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

What he should be doing is saying we want x, y and z and if we don't get it we're off.

Rather than saying we'd like you to decide if we can have x, y and z and you'll still have the power over us to change it back later.

Without control of your own borders, you've got no control at all.

 


Optimistic as ever

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Matataland 02 Feb 16 3.15pm Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

I would vote to stay in the EU if, after we have done the sensible & right thing and renewed Trident, Brussels turned a blind eye to us disposing of our old Trident's by launching them at Rotterdam. And if we have one left over, lobbing that at Barcelona.

I have a personal, hatred towards to the people of Rotterdam & Barcelona and vapourising them is, in my opinion, the only sensible course of action.

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 02 Feb 16 4.17pm

Originally posted by matt_himself

I would vote to stay in the EU if, after we have done the sensible & right thing and renewed Trident, Brussels turned a blind eye to us disposing of our old Trident's by launching them at Rotterdam. And if we have one left over, lobbing that at Barcelona.

I have a personal, hatred towards to the people of Rotterdam & Barcelona and vapourising them is, in my opinion, the only sensible course of action.

In fairness of compromise, could we include Sunderland and Port Talbot to balance up the deal?

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 02 Feb 16 4.28pm

Originally posted by Stuk

What he should be doing is saying we want x, y and z and if we don't get it we're off.

Rather than saying we'd like you to decide if we can have x, y and z and you'll still have the power over us to change it back later.

Without control of your own borders, you've got no control at all.

I don't thinks how negotiation works. Some of the proposals are quite good, but the issue of EU migration isn't with benefits, but the manner in which it undermines the working classes of the UK by creating a surplus of cheap labour which only benefits corporate interests.

Some of the issues are straw arguments, like Sovereignty, as the ECHR doesn't have dominion over UK sovereignty except when there is a conflict within UK laws, that cannot be resolved by our own judiciary.

This isn't a new thing, the European Court has filled this role for about fifty or sixty years.

The problem that Cameron has is that the interests of many 'euro issue' political groups and people, are ideological, they want out of the EU irrespective of any concessions (or they want the EU to serve the interests of the UK first and foremost).

Personally my only issue with the EU really is the 'right to free movement' allowing people to work anywhere, which I believe is to the detriment of both nations involved.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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View Stuk's Profile Stuk Flag Top half 02 Feb 16 4.51pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

I don't thinks how negotiation works. Some of the proposals are quite good, but the issue of EU migration isn't with benefits, but the manner in which it undermines the working classes of the UK by creating a surplus of cheap labour which only benefits corporate interests.

Some of the issues are straw arguments, like Sovereignty, as the ECHR doesn't have dominion over UK sovereignty except when there is a conflict within UK laws, that cannot be resolved by our own judiciary.

This isn't a new thing, the European Court has filled this role for about fifty or sixty years.

The problem that Cameron has is that the interests of many 'euro issue' political groups and people, are ideological, they want out of the EU irrespective of any concessions (or they want the EU to serve the interests of the UK first and foremost).

Personally my only issue with the EU really is the 'right to free movement' allowing people to work anywhere, which I believe is to the detriment of both nations involved.

I don't want us to negotiate, I want us to make demands.

Either it works for us, or we're off. At the moment it doesn't work for the UK at all, unless you're an MEP and you're hoovering up people's hard paid taxes in the form of a salary, plus bonus and benefits.

 


Optimistic as ever

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View davenotamonkey's Profile davenotamonkey Flag 02 Feb 16 5.18pm Send a Private Message to davenotamonkey Add davenotamonkey as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

I don't thinks how negotiation works. Some of the proposals are quite good, but the issue of EU migration isn't with benefits, but the manner in which it undermines the working classes of the UK by creating a surplus of cheap labour which only benefits corporate interests.

Some of the issues are straw arguments, like Sovereignty, as the ECHR doesn't have dominion over UK sovereignty except when there is a conflict within UK laws, that cannot be resolved by our own judiciary.

This isn't a new thing, the European Court has filled this role for about fifty or sixty years.

The problem that Cameron has is that the interests of many 'euro issue' political groups and people, are ideological, they want out of the EU irrespective of any concessions (or they want the EU to serve the interests of the UK first and foremost).

Personally my only issue with the EU really is the 'right to free movement' allowing people to work anywhere, which I believe is to the detriment of both nations involved.

No. That's exactly how negotiation works. You negotiate from a position of strength, making it clear what the consequences of non-agreement are.

Not only did Cameron have absolutely no intention of pushing a "leave" agenda (as he is fully signed up to the EU), but the whole thing is a complete sham - engineered, including the little tiffs and handbags. We'll likely get some form of what Dave is asking for - this is just the theater.

However, much as with Fraizer Campbell, the end product is junk. No substance, no "reform" and nothing that will serve to placate those who rightly believe that these "straw arguments" of yours are tangible and a threat to our democracy and autonomy.

The only issue is how high the cut-off in IQ is for those taken in by Dave's theatrics, and thus duped into thinking he's acting in good faith and in the UK's best interests with these sad fudges.

 

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View nhp61's Profile nhp61 Flag Goring-By-Sea born, now in Brackne... 02 Feb 16 5.35pm Send a Private Message to nhp61 Add nhp61 as a friend

Cameron has achieved virtually nothing that will make the Eurosceptics change their minds, and has helped a lot of the undecided swing towards voting out.

He entered the "negotiation" with a list of so called demands from a position of strength. Instead, he was so weak that what he ended up with was hardly worth the effort.

 

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