Gender and sexuality
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jamiemartin721  Reading 17 Mar 16 4.01pm |
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Originally posted by johnfirewall
At the age of 4 they're just about old enough to play 'shops' so this degree of minutae is a bit like asking the kid who took the role of shopkeeper to submit his Corporation Tax. Edited by johnfirewall (17 Mar 2016 3.54pm) Yeah, ok at four, its a bit of a revelation to discover the world has permanence, let alone that they may be some men, who are women, some women who are men, some people who are both, some families with two dads or two mums etc... But from the ages of 6 and 7, children could probably do with some independent source of knowledge about things such as sex and gender (its important given that any number of children experience sexual abuse, and often won't even know its wrong until their teens). Staggered over the aging period. Not necessarily the full details. I remember a lot of things in school about mums and dads, kiss chase, nudity etc. Kids start learning about these things from around 6 or 7.
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 johnfirewall 17 Mar 16 4.06pm |
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Eddie Izzard while recently discussing his 27 marathons, he declared it quite simple after the challenge of coming out as transgender in 1985. That's quite an eyeopener. I thought in referring to himself as a 'lesbian in a man's body' he was being having a laugh. Although when I say 'eyeopener' I mean in respect of how confusing these scenarios can be to a cis-gender hetero.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 17 Mar 16 4.07pm |
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Originally posted by Part Time James
I'd go for Steve, Dave or John before Caitlyn was on the radar if I'm honest. If I was going to change my name I'd go for something unusual I think. Steve, Dave or John, just lacks imagination. I like the name Gabriel, so I'd probably have chosen something like that. It seems parents are either very unimaginative or stupid when naming children But then I also came fairly close to being called Amos or Newton, or Amos Newton - in which case I'd probably want to be called Steve.
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| dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 17 Mar 16 4.10pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
If I was going to change my name I'd go for something unusual I think. Steve, Dave or John, just lacks imagination. I like the name Gabriel, so I'd probably have chosen something like that. It seems parents are either very unimaginative or stupid when naming children But then I also came fairly close to being called Amos or Newton, or Amos Newton - in which case I'd probably want to be called Steve. Gay
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 17 Mar 16 4.11pm |
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Originally posted by johnfirewall
Eddie Izzard while recently discussing his 27 marathons, he declared it quite simple after the challenge of coming out as transgender in 1985. That's quite an eyeopener. I thought in referring to himself as a 'lesbian in a man's body' he was being having a laugh. Although when I say 'eyeopener' I mean in respect of how confusing these scenarios can be to a cis-gender hetero. I used to quite enjoy wearing womens clothes and makeup in my 20s and early 30s. Though I couldn't get on with dresses and skirts. Bit partial to womens coats, jackets, shaws etc, because its easy to get away with. But there is always some c**t who takes personal issue with it. Invariably someone who looks like everyone else.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 17 Mar 16 4.13pm |
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My mum was absolutely insistent that she wouldn't call me Amos, irrespective of family traditions - She didn't want anyone calling me skeeter. I don't think the gay thing came into it.
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| Green Giant I'm Mr Meseeks. Look at me. 17 Mar 16 4.20pm |
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Originally posted by johnfirewall
Eddie Izzard while recently discussing his 27 marathons, he declared it quite simple after the challenge of coming out as transgender in 1985. That's quite an eyeopener. I thought in referring to himself as a 'lesbian in a man's body' he was being having a laugh. Although when I say 'eyeopener' I mean in respect of how confusing these scenarios can be to a cis-gender hetero. Can you imagine?
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| Stuk Top half 17 Mar 16 4.33pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
But it should be. Why shouldn't kids learn about it. I'm not saying you have to go into all the details, but it surely better to know about things like gay, lesbianism etc at a young age, than simply have to find out for yourself. Jesus, back when I was at school, we didn't even cover gay people in Sex Ed. Now statistically there was at least 3 people in my class would would have been 'thinking somewhat differently' in terms of sex. Kids see and hear, and know things, from their world around them. Introducing them to things that are true is a fundamental part of education. No it shouldn't. You're forcing your opinion on others like the teacher is. There is absolutely no benefit to teaching kids of that age about sex and gender, let them be innocent kids. I only found out my old primary head teacher was gay after I went back to do a quote for some work. Asked my parents after if they'd known he was, and they did. As a kid at the school it didn't ever cross my mind, nor should it have.
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| Stuk Top half 17 Mar 16 4.34pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Disagree, you are who you are, not what other people say you are. Just making people confirm to a norm that doesn't exist, doesn't help anyone - especially the person who is different, and being constrained in to other peoples perception of what is right and wrong. In reality, we should probably stop trying to shoe horn ourselves in to a narrow a definition as we can find and embrace what makes us different, rather than reject it. They can call themselves what they want, they can't dictate that the rest of us do the same. Free choice innit.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 17 Mar 16 4.38pm |
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Originally posted by Stuk
They can call themselves what they want, they can't dictate that the rest of us do the same. Free choice innit. I don't understand why you wouldn't though. Its just polite. Its also necessary for society, if we all just start calling people by names they don't respond to, it'd be chaos.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 17 Mar 16 4.43pm |
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Originally posted by Stuk
No it shouldn't. You're forcing your opinion on others like the teacher is. There is absolutely no benefit to teaching kids of that age about sex and gender, let them be innocent kids. I only found out my old primary head teacher was gay after I went back to do a quote for some work. Asked my parents after if they'd known he was, and they did. As a kid at the school it didn't ever cross my mind, nor should it have. I don't think its an opinion that there are transgendered, gay, lesbian and intersex people, its a fact of life. I don't think it necessary that there is too much detail, just that when you learn about men and women, you learn that sometimes, a man is born as a woman and vice versa, or as both. Just like as some men love women, some men love men and some women love women. We teach them about men and women, mums and dads all the time. Innocence is just nice word for lying about the world to children. Something adults seem to be exceptionally keen on. Its not protecting them at all. It deceiving them.
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| Stuk Top half 17 Mar 16 4.51pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
I don't understand why you wouldn't though. Its just polite. Its also necessary for society, if we all just start calling people by names they don't respond to, it'd be chaos. For the same reason I don't call Hernandez "Chicarito".
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