electric cars,...opening a can of worms

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steeleye20 Online Croydon 08 Dec 20 7.12pm
Originally posted by CrazyBadger Yep agree with that, but electric cars are being sold as the answer to being green - and good for the environment. They are a good immediate fix but one that may not be sustainable in their current guise. Batteries are all well and good, but they will need disposing of at some point - just like current Car batteries! for them to work, the batteries need to last a lot longer(and i'm not talking per charge), be fully recyclable, with a plan in place to recycle them. There is also the lithium - where to source it, extract it and the environmental damage you are doing in the process.
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steeleye20 Online

Croydon 08 Dec 20 7.12pm

Originally posted by CrazyBadger

Yep agree with that, but electric cars are being sold as the answer to being green - and good for the environment. They are a good immediate fix but one that may not be sustainable in their current guise. Batteries are all well and good, but they will need disposing of at some point - just like current Car batteries!
for them to work, the batteries need to last a lot longer(and i'm not talking per charge), be fully recyclable, with a plan in place to recycle them.

There is also the lithium - where to source it, extract it and the environmental damage you are doing in the process.

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 08 Dec 20 7.18pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 There is also the lithium - where to source it, extract it and the environmental damage you are doing in the process. I heard Cornwall is a viable possible source - and hopefully it can be mined responsibly in the UK and create viable, local jobs. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 08 Dec 20 7.18pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

There is also the lithium - where to source it, extract it and the environmental damage you are doing in the process.

I heard Cornwall is a viable possible source - and hopefully it can be mined responsibly in the UK and create viable, local jobs.

Red and Blue Army!

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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 08 Dec 20 9.58pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 It is how the electricity is produced as the OP said. Toshiba CEO says hydrogen is the best alternative, not electric. Hydrogen is potentially the fuel of the future. Except it is very much explosive and difficult to store. "The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 08 Dec 20 9.58pm

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Originally posted by steeleye20

It is how the electricity is produced as the OP said.

Toshiba CEO says hydrogen is the best alternative, not electric.

Hydrogen is potentially the fuel of the future. Except it is very much explosive and difficult to store.

"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 08 Dec 20 10.27pm
Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly Hydrogen is potentially the fuel of the future. Except it is very much explosive and difficult to store. The Hindenberg was fine - not seeing a problem. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 08 Dec 20 10.27pm

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

Hydrogen is potentially the fuel of the future. Except it is very much explosive and difficult to store.

The Hindenberg was fine - not seeing a problem.

Red and Blue Army!

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Mapletree Croydon 08 Dec 20 11.08pm
Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle I have a question about electric cars as this is where motoring is heading. What happens if you live in a flat or a house without parking. How do you charge the battery? You have to use roadside public chargers We considered fitting charging points to our housing schemes but it got horribly complex. You need a flipping big ‘pipe’ for the kind of power needed. And how do you divvy the bills or book a charging time. Public chargers are not all that expensive. A 60% charge costs around £2.50 on home economy 7 for us. Probably at least twice that on a roadside charger. You charge when down to 20% and take it up to 80% to preserve battery life in normal use.
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Mapletree

Croydon 08 Dec 20 11.08pm

Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle

I have a question about electric cars as this is where motoring is heading.

What happens if you live in a flat or a house without parking. How do you charge the battery?

You have to use roadside public chargers

We considered fitting charging points to our housing schemes but it got horribly complex. You need a flipping big ‘pipe’ for the kind of power needed. And how do you divvy the bills or book a charging time.

Public chargers are not all that expensive. A 60% charge costs around £2.50 on home economy 7 for us. Probably at least twice that on a roadside charger. You charge when down to 20% and take it up to 80% to preserve battery life in normal use.

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Tom-the-eagle Croydon 08 Dec 20 11.11pm
Originally posted by Mapletree You have to use roadside public chargers We considered fitting charging points to our housing schemes but it got horribly complex. You need a flipping big ‘pipe’ for the kind of power needed. And how do you divvy the bills or book a charging time. Public chargers are not all that expensive. A 60% charge costs around £2.50 on home economy 7 for us. Probably at least twice that on a roadside charger. You charge when down to 20% and take it up to 80% to preserve battery life in normal use. Thanks for answering. Ok so what happens if the nearest charger is say a mile or two away? What happens if they are all taken? "It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit
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Tom-the-eagle

Croydon 08 Dec 20 11.11pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

You have to use roadside public chargers

Thanks for answering. Ok so what happens if the nearest charger is say a mile or two away? What happens if they are all taken?

"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit

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Mapletree Croydon 08 Dec 20 11.16pm
Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle Thanks for answering. Ok so what happens if the nearest charger is say a mile or two away? What happens if they are all taken? They are pretty fast so you can queue. About 40 minutes. And in London you can pay a combined parking and charging fee. Tesla has its own charging system which is excellent with loads of charging points. And it’s all electronic so you just ask the car where the nearest available empty charger is.
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Mapletree

Croydon 08 Dec 20 11.16pm

Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle

Thanks for answering. Ok so what happens if the nearest charger is say a mile or two away? What happens if they are all taken?

They are pretty fast so you can queue. About 40 minutes. And in London you can pay a combined parking and charging fee. Tesla has its own charging system which is excellent with loads of charging points.

And it’s all electronic so you just ask the car where the nearest available empty charger is.

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croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 08 Dec 20 11.25pm
Once everyone has a new shiny electric vehicle, they will come up with some excuse to move on to something else, as the pollution caused near the power stations is to dangerous, maybe move back to something that they found out wasn"t as bad as once thought, like petrol!
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croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 08 Dec 20 11.25pm

Once everyone has a new shiny electric vehicle, they will come up with some excuse to move on to something else, as the pollution caused near the power stations is to dangerous, maybe move back to something that they found out wasn"t as bad as once thought, like petrol!

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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 09 Dec 20 4.10am
Electric cars would also be lighter because suspension/brake fittings would have less mass. Battery (cell) storage would be the biggest issue. However, because we already have petrol/diesel vehicles on the road with a higher mass, then electric vehicles will have to be built to the same standard (for crash-testing purposes) That will severely impact the development of electric cars. "The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 09 Dec 20 4.10am

Electric cars would also be lighter because suspension/brake fittings would have less mass. Battery (cell) storage would be the biggest issue.
However, because we already have petrol/diesel vehicles on the road with a higher mass, then electric vehicles will have to be built to the same standard (for crash-testing purposes)
That will severely impact the development of electric cars.

"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

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cryrst The garden of England 09 Dec 20 5.48am
Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly Hydrogen is potentially the fuel of the future. Except it is very much explosive and difficult to store. I thought water was used with a fuel cell. The space station does it for the oxygen supply and exhausts the hydrogen and it's no bigger than a bucket or two. Just saying. But then water is free so no tax take!
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cryrst

The garden of England 09 Dec 20 5.48am

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

Hydrogen is potentially the fuel of the future. Except it is very much explosive and difficult to store.

I thought water was used with a fuel cell.
The space station does it for the oxygen supply and exhausts the hydrogen and it's no bigger than a bucket or two.

Just saying.
But then water is free so no tax take!

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Badger11 Beckenham 09 Dec 20 6.49am
I suspect that you will see a lot more designs like this. [Link] Cars have got ridiculously bigger over the years most of my neighbours can no longer get their cars in their garages. I think the trend will be to smaller vehicles although this one might be a bit extreme. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 09 Dec 20 6.49am

I suspect that you will see a lot more designs like this.

[Link]

Cars have got ridiculously bigger over the years most of my neighbours can no longer get their cars in their garages.

I think the trend will be to smaller vehicles although this one might be a bit extreme.

One more point

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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 09 Dec 20 6.58pm
Originally posted by cryrst I thought water was used with a fuel cell. The space station does it for the oxygen supply and exhausts the hydrogen and it's no bigger than a bucket or two. Just saying. But then water is free so no tax take! My knowledge is from 30 years ago, so may well be out-of-date. Fuel cells need pure hydrogen, which needs to be isolated from water via electricity. the emissions from a fuel cell is solely water. Also a normal petrol engine can be run from hydrogen (with a few tweeks) and the only emissions would be water vapour. there are a few mechanical equations which seem enshrined in engineering 'law' for cars. 1. You must keep (unsuspended) mass to a minimum 2. Power = energy consumption (although energy merely changes form) And engineering is fraught with compromises. Outright straight-line speed is compromised by downforce for cornering. Braking ability, etc. "The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 09 Dec 20 6.58pm

Originally posted by cryrst

I thought water was used with a fuel cell.
The space station does it for the oxygen supply and exhausts the hydrogen and it's no bigger than a bucket or two.

Just saying.
But then water is free so no tax take!

My knowledge is from 30 years ago, so may well be out-of-date.
Fuel cells need pure hydrogen, which needs to be isolated from water via electricity.
the emissions from a fuel cell is solely water. Also a normal petrol engine can be run from hydrogen (with a few tweeks) and the only emissions would be water vapour.

there are a few mechanical equations which seem enshrined in engineering 'law' for cars.

1. You must keep (unsuspended) mass to a minimum
2. Power = energy consumption (although energy merely changes form)

And engineering is fraught with compromises. Outright straight-line speed is compromised by downforce for cornering. Braking ability, etc.

"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

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