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April 30 2024 7.18am

Decision-making

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View auk's Profile auk Flag 28 Feb 23 8.26pm Send a Private Message to auk Add auk as a friend

A player with the ball is faced with huge amounts data which changes every fraction of a second, depending, for instance, on the movements both of his team mates and opponents.

He also has to be conscious of angles and the limitations both of his own ability and those around him - team mates and opponents alike.

Everything is perpetually in flux.

What turns out to be a poor decision, for which a player is then criticised by pundits, may in fact have been a brilliant decision at the time he made it - except that it didn’t pay off.

Wilf regularly used to be criticised for poor decision making, and I think that introduced an element of mental paralysis in his approach to the game.

He was at his most exuberant, dynamic and enterprising under Dougie, then Holloway, who probably just encouraged him to play his ‘natural game’ and enjoy himself.

Since then he has been over-coached by a series of managers (including at Man U) and much of his flair has sadly gone.

As Brian Clough used to say: “Never spurn a goalscoring opportunity by trying to make it better.”

And for more on the subject, you just have to listen to Supertramp’s hit record of yesteryear - The Logical Song.

 

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View The Yorkshire Eagle's Profile The Yorkshire Eagle Flag Great Ouseburn, N Yorkshire 01 Mar 23 9.35am Send a Private Message to The Yorkshire Eagle Add The Yorkshire Eagle as a friend

It’s all to easy to over analyse PV’s reference to “decision making”, as many posts hear-in have done. In simple terms, we don’t put the ball in the box, nor shoot enough. How many goals do you see scored from defensive errors, unsighted keepers, half chances resultant from crosses or even a mis-hit shot, or deflection.

Top strikers play with and in-built instinct and, as pundits refer to as “gambling” (no, not at BET 365) but as Alan ‘sniffer’ Clarke used to, anticipating where the ball might drop or cross the face of goal. Midfielders who generally get more time on the ball, like Debruyne and Cabaye, DO have that ‘decision making’ time, but PV, IMO refers to ‘ our front line in this regard.
As much as he was pilloried!, the goal Batshuayi scored in one of his early games at Burnley was pure instinct. A swift shin high cross was met with a side foot from 6 yards! That is what we lack, that quick movement of the ball and a instinctive striker, which Messrs Eduard and Mateta, are not getting the opportunity to demonstrate..if, that is, they have it in them!

 

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View MrRobbo's Profile MrRobbo Flag Purley 01 Mar 23 9.44am Send a Private Message to MrRobbo Add MrRobbo as a friend

Originally posted by auk

A player with the ball is faced with huge amounts data which changes every fraction of a second, depending, for instance, on the movements both of his team mates and opponents.

He also has to be conscious of angles and the limitations both of his own ability and those around him - team mates and opponents alike.

Everything is perpetually in flux.

What turns out to be a poor decision, for which a player is then criticised by pundits, may in fact have been a brilliant decision at the time he made it - except that it didn’t pay off.

Wilf regularly used to be criticised for poor decision making, and I think that introduced an element of mental paralysis in his approach to the game.

He was at his most exuberant, dynamic and enterprising under Dougie, then Holloway, who probably just encouraged him to play his ‘natural game’ and enjoy himself.

Since then he has been over-coached by a series of managers (including at Man U) and much of his flair has sadly gone.

As Brian Clough used to say: “Never spurn a goalscoring opportunity by trying to make it better.”

And for more on the subject, you just have to listen to Supertramp’s hit record of yesteryear - The Logical Song.

I think there is some truth in that about Wilf. But also a desire from him to add numbers to his game. No top team were going to sign him without a decent number of goals and assists.

And to be fair to him he has added numbers, but he's also lost that raw desire to embarrass defenders time and time again. Maybe Wilf has been pushed too far.

The old Wilf was exciting, and when paired with Yannick was some of the most enjoyable Palace games I can remember watching. But even his biggest fan would have admitted that there was often no end product. What's the point of beating 3 men if the 4th tackles you. Or you duff your cross.

Whilst I do miss that edge of your seat Wilf. These maverick players must be difficult to tactically work into the system. You cant on one hand tell them to go and enjoy themselves but also work into team shapes and systems.

Top level football coaching is all about overloads and tactically creating space and exposing weaknesses. Even when fans think we are passing sideways across the back too much, the players will be trying to engineer an opportunity to play a penetrative pass.

When Wilf was at his most exciting the upper limit of our tactics was to 'keep it tight and give it to Wilf' hoping that he could do something.


 

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View southnorwoodhill's Profile southnorwoodhill Flag 01 Mar 23 9.48am Send a Private Message to southnorwoodhill Add southnorwoodhill as a friend

Originally posted by The Yorkshire Eagle

It’s all to easy to over analyse PV’s reference to “decision making”, as many posts hear-in have done. In simple terms, we don’t put the ball in the box, nor shoot enough. How many goals do you see scored from defensive errors, unsighted keepers, half chances resultant from crosses or even a mis-hit shot, or deflection.

Top strikers play with and in-built instinct and, as pundits refer to as “gambling” (no, not at BET 365) but as Alan ‘sniffer’ Clarke used to, anticipating where the ball might drop or cross the face of goal. Midfielders who generally get more time on the ball, like Debruyne and Cabaye, DO have that ‘decision making’ time, but PV, IMO refers to ‘ our front line in this regard.
As much as he was pilloried!, the goal Batshuayi scored in one of his early games at Burnley was pure instinct. A swift shin high cross was met with a side foot from 6 yards! That is what we lack, that quick movement of the ball and a instinctive striker, which Messrs Eduard and Mateta, are not getting the opportunity to demonstrate..if, that is, they have it in them!

Eduoard stuck out a leg to get on the end of a ball knocked straight back into the danger zone by Ayew recently, and Mateta made the run to get on the end of a first time cross from Mitchell after a flick from Zaha set Mitchell free down the left. No messing about, quick decisive ball which illustrated to me that if the ball is played into the right areas then Mateta and Eduoard are capable of getting on the end of it.

 

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 01 Mar 23 10.34am Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by southnorwoodhill

Eduoard stuck out a leg to get on the end of a ball knocked straight back into the danger zone by Ayew recently, and Mateta made the run to get on the end of a first time cross from Mitchell after a flick from Zaha set Mitchell free down the left. No messing about, quick decisive ball which illustrated to me that if the ball is played into the right areas then Mateta and Eduoard are capable of getting on the end of it.

At the weekend Mateta was awful and I started to empathise with where some of the criticism aimed at him came from as previously I wasn't so quick with it.

My initial defence, and argument for him in the first place, was that he did seem intent on trying to put the ball in the back of the net when opportunity came his way. That for me is what a striker should be before anything else. Equally, I'd argue Edouard looks to be getting 'more involved in play' as opposed to on the end of things, which I would guess is instructional as opposed to his natural inclination.

It is hard to judge forwards when they feed off so little. If they were missing a host of chances each game then I would be a little more assured in saying 'not good enough' however I would argue this isn't the case currently. Mateta's fumbling at the misdirected pass from TAA and the square ball from Schlupp was worthy of criticism however I haven't seen that on a consistent enough basis to really label him definitively.

One goal sticks in my mind from last season, can't remember against whom, but a quick Mitchell/Zaha bit of interplay led to a cross from the left which JPM just lunged at, in-between defenders, getting a foot on it and lo it went in. Instances such as that have been few and far between since however that demonstrated his capability to me. I feel as though our play has not been complimentary to a 'goalscoring' striker and ever since Benteke's arrival we have looked and played for multi-faceted strikers which has drawn away from their primary responsibility.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 01 Mar 23 11.19am Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

However 'decision making' is defined - we are absolutely crap at it. Genuinely seems quite a lack of footballing guile in our team. Our best decision maker is Andersen. Probably next for the fouls they buy are Zaha and Ayew.

 


Red and Blue Army!

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View palace99's Profile palace99 Flag New Mills 01 Mar 23 11.42am Send a Private Message to palace99 Add palace99 as a friend

Originally posted by Nicholas91

At the weekend Mateta was awful and I started to empathise with where some of the criticism aimed at him came from as previously I wasn't so quick with it.

My initial defence, and argument for him in the first place, was that he did seem intent on trying to put the ball in the back of the net when opportunity came his way. That for me is what a striker should be before anything else. Equally, I'd argue Edouard looks to be getting 'more involved in play' as opposed to on the end of things, which I would guess is instructional as opposed to his natural inclination.

It is hard to judge forwards when they feed off so little. If they were missing a host of chances each game then I would be a little more assured in saying 'not good enough' however I would argue this isn't the case currently. Mateta's fumbling at the misdirected pass from TAA and the square ball from Schlupp was worthy of criticism however I haven't seen that on a consistent enough basis to really label him definitively.

One goal sticks in my mind from last season, can't remember against whom, but a quick Mitchell/Zaha bit of interplay led to a cross from the left which JPM just lunged at, in-between defenders, getting a foot on it and lo it went in. Instances such as that have been few and far between since however that demonstrated his capability to me. I feel as though our play has not been complimentary to a 'goalscoring' striker and ever since Benteke's arrival we have looked and played for multi-faceted strikers which has drawn away from their primary responsibility.

think that was Villa early this season.

The 'beauty' of that go was the first time cross by TM into that space behind the defender making it difficult to defend. Mateta got in front of Mings and scored. Also the 1-2 with Zaha initially created the space for the cross.

When we build slowly those opportunities are minimised as the defence is in position and difficult to get behind.

 

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 01 Mar 23 12.57pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by palace99

think that was Villa early this season.

The 'beauty' of that go was the first time cross by TM into that space behind the defender making it difficult to defend. Mateta got in front of Mings and scored. Also the 1-2 with Zaha initially created the space for the cross.

When we build slowly those opportunities are minimised as the defence is in position and difficult to get behind.

You are correct sir! My perception of time is awful.

Absolutely agree with point too. The indecision, lack of directness and intent when we go forward is infuriating primarily because it very rarely leads to the aforementioned, hence the lack of goals. Defences always seem to have so much time to organise themselves when we have the ball it very rarely creates clear goal scoring opportunities.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View Pete53's Profile Pete53 Flag Hassocks 01 Mar 23 1.36pm Send a Private Message to Pete53 Add Pete53 as a friend

Originally posted by auk

Is instinctive the same as spontaneous?

Possibly not, although the two concepts are related.

I think we tend to use the term instinctive to imply that someone is able to do the correct thing/ make the right decision, without pause for thought.

Being spontaneous just means we do something on the spur of the moment without spending time considering the outcome, which may not actually be beneficial to the individual, or team.

So I suppose what I am fumbling to say is, with the speed of the game, players have to be spontaneous, but without sound instinct to go with that, the outcome may not be advantageous.

 

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View PatrickA's Profile PatrickA Flag London 01 Mar 23 2.54pm Send a Private Message to PatrickA Add PatrickA as a friend

For me it’s telling that the examples of good decision making this season are so few and far between - at least in terms of resulting in clear chance creation.
We have made good defensive decisions on the whole in the matches played this season, but this should be differentiated from our attacking play.

The one move posters have referred to in good decision making is the Mateta goal v Villa following the Zaha pass around the corner and Mitchell’s first time cross.
This occurred at the beginning of the season and we are now in March.
We should be able to demonstrate moves like this every game, not every four or five months.
Our final pass is just not good enough with crosses either hitting the first man or being over hit, and threaded passes incorrectly weighted meaning first time finishes are very difficult as they’re either played too far in front or too far behind the intended recipient of the pass.
Schlupp and Ayew are particularly culpable in this regard, but sloppy play from Olise, Eze and Zaha should not be disregarded.
This would seem to be why Vieira continually refers to the need to improve decision making in the final third and it’s difficult to disagree.

 

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View Eaglecoops's Profile Eaglecoops Flag CR3 01 Mar 23 4.02pm Send a Private Message to Eaglecoops Add Eaglecoops as a friend

Passing to someone in space = good decision
Passing to someone surrounded by three players = poor decision
Crossing the ball when there is nobody in the box = poor decision
Crossing the ball when there are 3 attackers screaming for it = good decision
Taking on 2 players unnecessarily when a simple pass is on = poor decision
Taking on 1 player when no pass is on and you’re then through on goal= good decision.

You could go on ad nauseum. These are all professional footballers and they should be able to make these decisions easily, but apparently not.

 

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View PatrickA's Profile PatrickA Flag London 01 Mar 23 4.39pm Send a Private Message to PatrickA Add PatrickA as a friend

Arguably one of best players in terms of pass selection and weight of pass is Riedewald, which is possibly no great surprise given his pedigree with the Ajax academy.
Roy used to acclaim him as one of the most talented players at the club who always showed well at training sessions.
However, he has only been able to demonstrate that talent fleetingly at first team level lacking the intensity that seems to be required at Premier League level.
Surely a player better suited to Netherlands or Spain.

 

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