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jamiemartin721  Reading 21 Jan 15 3.11pm |
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Quote bright&wright at 21 Jan 2015 1.47pm
The Greens will save the planet then let us all get blown to bits by terrorists. Hyperbole will save the Right.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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 EaglesEaglesEagles  21 Jan 15 3.13pm |
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Quote bright&wright at 21 Jan 2015 1.47pm
The Greens will save the planet then let us all get blown to bits by terrorists. Careful mate. Remember that the Green Party are a left wing party. For this reason it is prudent to believe by proxy that the 'Torygraph' have misrepresented the Greens unfairly.
I ain't got nuthin' funny to say. Sorry. |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 21 Jan 15 3.30pm |
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Presumably that 'Living Allowance' would also be off set somewhat by the fact it replaces taxable allowance, unemployment, state pensions, income support, winter heating allowances, incapacity benefits, statutory sick pay etc. Actually when you think of it in those terms, it starts to make a lot more sense than a system that draws on different government departments, and systems - You'd save a huge amount in the long run in Administration costs (its a flat fee, to each person, from one department). I think the tendency of certain other parties is to rubbish it by misrepresentation and simplification, because actually its a very sensible and pragmatic solution to a problem of big government (where benefits and payments to citizens come from numerous different dept, sources and on different criteria of qualification). The two years maternity / paternity is a nice idea, but that's not realistically going to practically work - Rewarding people for entering into the economic and environmental catastrophe that is having children isn't practical long term. Should really look towards economic rewards for not producing financial environmental burdens on the state.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 21 Jan 15 3.42pm |
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Quote bright&wright at 21 Jan 2015 1.47pm
The Greens will save the planet then let us all get blown to bits by terrorists.
Also, not persecuting people because they may have similar views to other 'outlawed' groups, isn't actually all that new. They're not actually proposing that we should give terrorists a free pass, but more that just because someone is has ideas or beliefs that align, that shouldn't be a criminal offence. ie. that your criminalized for actions, not thoughts. Not sure I really buy into this one, ultimately I think its potentially unsellable to the public. Its also worth noting as well that not all terrorist groups listed by the UK as terrorist groups are the same. Arguably groups like the PPK have actual very viable, very real grievances and genuine issues in regards to the Turkish government - which has been engaged in systematic oppression, torture, murder and suppression of the Kurdish people of Turkey.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| ghosteagle 21 Jan 15 3.56pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 21 Jan 2015 3.42pm
Quote bright&wright at 21 Jan 2015 1.47pm
The Greens will save the planet then let us all get blown to bits by terrorists.
Also, not persecuting people because they may have similar views to other 'outlawed' groups, isn't actually all that new. They're not actually proposing that we should give terrorists a free pass, but more that just because someone is has ideas or beliefs that align, that shouldn't be a criminal offence. ie. that your criminalized for actions, not thoughts. Not sure I really buy into this one, ultimately I think its potentially unsellable to the public. Its also worth noting as well that not all terrorist groups listed by the UK as terrorist groups are the same. Arguably groups like the PPK have actual very viable, very real grievances and genuine issues in regards to the Turkish government - which has been engaged in systematic oppression, torture, murder and suppression of the Kurdish people of Turkey. This seems so obvious to me, of course people should not be criminalized for what they think, i would argue its one of the pillars of a free society. Saying that, i am interested that you think it would not sell to the public. I think it's a matter of presentation, but if you are right i would find that a very sad indictment of the society we live in.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 21 Jan 15 4.23pm |
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Quote ghosteagle at 21 Jan 2015 3.56pm
This seems so obvious to me, of course people should not be criminalized for what they think, i would argue its one of the pillars of a free society. Saying that, i am interested that you think it would not sell to the public. I think it's a matter of presentation, but if you are right i would find that a very sad indictment of the society we live in. Anti-Terrorism laws in the UK explicitly allow for persecution of individuals, on the basis of what they are believed to think, as opposed to what they have done. These laws have repeatedly been used for convenience throughout British History to control 'unpopular or inconvenient beliefs and activities, even when they haven't been aimed at harm to the nation or its citizens'. When you look at the history of oppression, its almost always under the guise of 'National Security Concerns and enemies of the state' that 'political dissidents' are rooted out. You don't actually have to be involved in terrorism in the UK to be subject to terrorism laws. Just protesting is generally enough.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| ghosteagle 21 Jan 15 4.37pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 21 Jan 2015 4.23pm
Quote ghosteagle at 21 Jan 2015 3.56pm
This seems so obvious to me, of course people should not be criminalized for what they think, i would argue its one of the pillars of a free society. Saying that, i am interested that you think it would not sell to the public. I think it's a matter of presentation, but if you are right i would find that a very sad indictment of the society we live in. Anti-Terrorism laws in the UK explicitly allow for persecution of individuals, on the basis of what they are believed to think, as opposed to what they have done. These laws have repeatedly been used for convenience throughout British History to control 'unpopular or inconvenient beliefs and activities, even when they haven't been aimed at harm to the nation or its citizens'. When you look at the history of oppression, its almost always under the guise of 'National Security Concerns and enemies of the state' that 'political dissidents' are rooted out. You don't actually have to be involved in terrorism in the UK to be subject to terrorism laws. Just protesting is generally enough. I see that, and the 'terrorism' laws in this country are very dodgy and open to abuse, but i always assumed that was evil politicians and that if the public understood that people were being arrested for thought crimes that they would be horrified. But maybe i think to much of joe public.
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| bright&wright 21 Jan 15 6.02pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 21 Jan 2015 4.23pm
Quote ghosteagle at 21 Jan 2015 3.56pm
This seems so obvious to me, of course people should not be criminalized for what they think, i would argue its one of the pillars of a free society. Saying that, i am interested that you think it would not sell to the public. I think it's a matter of presentation, but if you are right i would find that a very sad indictment of the society we live in. Anti-Terrorism laws in the UK explicitly allow for persecution of individuals, on the basis of what they are believed to think, as opposed to what they have done. These laws have repeatedly been used for convenience throughout British History to control 'unpopular or inconvenient beliefs and activities, even when they haven't been aimed at harm to the nation or its citizens'. When you look at the history of oppression, its almost always under the guise of 'National Security Concerns and enemies of the state' that 'political dissidents' are rooted out. You don't actually have to be involved in terrorism in the UK to be subject to terrorism laws. Just protesting is generally enough. I've never understood why people arrive in the UK and then protest against it's government. Surely you knew what you were getting into when you got here? In terms of our clamping down on 'free speech' if you think we have any issues then feel free to try your luck in one of those clearly wonderful Islamic nations like Saudia Arabia or Iran... To be honest more of a concern is that want 'us' to severe ties with the US, end our nuclear programme and our ENTIRE army. Green Party = anarchy.
'We are going to make a little bit of history here’ Mr. J. Ertl. |
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| dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 21 Jan 15 6.16pm |
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Quote bright&wright at 21 Jan 2015 6.02pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 21 Jan 2015 4.23pm
Quote ghosteagle at 21 Jan 2015 3.56pm
This seems so obvious to me, of course people should not be criminalized for what they think, i would argue its one of the pillars of a free society. Saying that, i am interested that you think it would not sell to the public. I think it's a matter of presentation, but if you are right i would find that a very sad indictment of the society we live in. Anti-Terrorism laws in the UK explicitly allow for persecution of individuals, on the basis of what they are believed to think, as opposed to what they have done. These laws have repeatedly been used for convenience throughout British History to control 'unpopular or inconvenient beliefs and activities, even when they haven't been aimed at harm to the nation or its citizens'. When you look at the history of oppression, its almost always under the guise of 'National Security Concerns and enemies of the state' that 'political dissidents' are rooted out. You don't actually have to be involved in terrorism in the UK to be subject to terrorism laws. Just protesting is generally enough. I've never understood why people arrive in the UK and then protest against it's government. Surely you knew what you were getting into when you got here? In terms of our clamping down on 'free speech' if you think we have any issues then feel free to try your luck in one of those clearly wonderful Islamic nations like Saudia Arabia or Iran... To be honest more of a concern is that want 'us' to severe ties with the US, end our nuclear programme and our ENTIRE army. Green Party = Drug addled idiots whose ideal world is a living breathing Salvador dali painting. Edited for the truth.
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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| legaleagle 21 Jan 15 8.52pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 21 Jan 2015 9.56am
The Greens at least have one eye on the hurricane of a future that is coming, what with climate change, over population, diminishing fossil fuels, unsustainable population levels, diminishing oxygen quality, increasing conflict over resources and rising food prices. Not really something you can say of the main stream parties. The future prospects for the next two or three generations doesn't look too good. And it isn't something that's going to be fixed by quick short term solution. Of course that isn't a reason to vote green, but it is your childrens, and their childrens future. Gestures like carbon footprint tax and recycling household waste won't make a dent in it either.
Whether or not a person agrees with their policies or not is one thing (though I wouldn't necessary automatically take the Telegraph article linked by Matthimself as being a complete neutral overview without further investigation), they are the only people with any political profile really pushing (amongst their more standard political stuff) some serious underlying issues our children and grandchildren will begrudge us about if we ignore them. The other parties are arguing about different ways of dealing with "now"as in the norm for perhaps the past 40 years. That isn't sustainable in the long term,regardless of if it's Labour,Tory or UKIP,SNP or Respect as all presently constituted. The answer may or may not be what they propose (and I'm not convinced at this point) but at least a higher profile for them may finally get some of these things in the political "inbox" for debate.Its like forsaking long term gain for short term profit and long term bankruptcy.Easy to slag them dismissively as a bunch of "hippies" but I think there's some really serious issues for us all to think about bubbling under there if we get beyond the knee jerk slagging and some of their more standard political type policies. Edited by legaleagle (21 Jan 2015 9.02pm)
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| legaleagle 21 Jan 15 9.08pm |
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Quote dannyh at 21 Jan 2015 2.01pm
Quote ghosteagle at 21 Jan 2015 12.17pm
Quote dannyh at 21 Jan 2015 12.09pm
Quote ghosteagle at 21 Jan 2015 11.55am
Quote dannyh at 21 Jan 2015 11.47am
Whatless unrealistic flower power utopian bollicks, that whilst may seem to have positive sentiment at it's heart, is utterly unworkable, and more to the point totally unfinaceable. Unless of course all you workers out there are happy to pay most of your hard earned in TAX to feed to the workshy. IMO there is no difference between the trustafarians and the monster raving looney party. I must have missed that bit in the manifesto....
THEY RAISE TAX'S that you and I have no choice about paying. (unless your a fcukin thick one eyed porridge womble, then you can raise it by selling the nations gold reserves to Webuyanygold.com). You failed to notice my sarcasm. That's fine, but forgive me if i don't take your maths at face value as i suspect it is wrong. You also failed to give any indication where your 'workshy' comment hails from, but i can see that you and logic are not good friends.....
THE CITIZENS’ INCOME The flagship policy is an unconditional, non-withdrawable income of £71 a week for everyone living in Britain “as a right of citizenship”, regardless of wealth or whether they are seeking work. Benefits and the tax-free personal allowance will be abolished, and top-ups given for people with children or disabilities, or to pay rent and mortgages. No-one will see a reduction in benefits, and most will see a substantial increase. Parents will be entitled to two years’ paid leave from work. The policy will enable people to “choose their own types and patterns of work”, and will allow people to take up “personally satisfying and socially useful work”. It will cost somewhere between £240-280 billion a year – more than double the current health budget, and ten times the defence budget. Those costs will be off-set by some reduction to the welfare bill, through the replacement of jobseekers’ allowance. It would seem you and reading before you post are not good friends.
Edited by legaleagle (21 Jan 2015 9.11pm)
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 21 Jan 15 9.11pm |
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My reasoning for voting green is their anti austerity stance. On a side issue, will be interesting to see what happens in Greece if Syriza win.
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