Breaking terror attack in France
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 Hrolf The Ganger  16 Jul 16 9.20am |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
You AND I won't have to fight for free speech in this country because we're not so stupid to ignore certain aspects of a culture that require a bit of tolerance. As I said, I'd be fuming if someone of mine had been killed on the pavement that day and not proud that the Hebdo office had printed off another pointless cartoon. I'm all for respecting other peoples culture and being polite but in our own countries we an say and do what we please within the law. If people of minority religions or cultures don't like it they can always bugger off back to where they came from. If they were born in a Western country and are in a tiny minority then they can suck it up. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (16 Jul 2016 9.21am)
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 16 Jul 16 9.43am |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I'm all for respecting other peoples culture and being polite but in our own countries we an say and do what we please within the law. If people of minority religions or cultures don't like it they can always bugger off back to where they came from. If they were born in a Western country and are in a tiny minority then they can suck it up. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (16 Jul 2016 9.21am) Not going to go back or suck it up they? And there is a major problem. The radicalised I mean. I agree with we respect country's culture when we travel, apart from football, Crete, Falaraki, Majorca etc, but there's a lot of fear of punishment as well as respect as travelling Brits. In the UK it's a prison full of radical elements of Islam. Hardly putting them off.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 16 Jul 16 9.48am |
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Originally posted by Jamesrichards8
You've got to be f***ing kidding me. It's OUR western society not theirs, which happens to value free speech. Did we massacre people in Egypt after footage emerged of people celebrating the 9/11 attacks? It's France's I'm referring to. They see it as freedom of speech, the lunatics see it as freedom to insult. Freedom to insult Islam, but anti-semitism is illegal. No we didn't massacre people in Egypt. We invaded Iraq where there weren't any Al Qaeda after Afghanistan where there were. Don't get me wrong, I abhor these vermin. Maybe it's just been a bad idea for Middle East and West to live together. Edited by Rudi Hedman (16 Jul 2016 9.50am)
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| Stirlingsays 16 Jul 16 10.08am |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
It's France's I'm referring to. They see it as freedom of speech, the lunatics see it as freedom to insult. Freedom to insult Islam, but anti-semitism is illegal. No we didn't massacre people in Egypt. We invaded Iraq where there weren't any Al Qaeda after Afghanistan where there were. Don't get me wrong, I abhor these vermin. Maybe it's just been a bad idea for Middle East and West to live together. Edited by Rudi Hedman (16 Jul 2016 9.50am) You may abhor 'these vermin' but you speak up for what they want.....the restriction of free speech. I believe you are well intentioned but just wrong.....appeasement just doesn't work.....giving a little is never enough for ideological (religiously extreme) people.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 16 Jul 16 10.08am |
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ISIS have claimed they're behind the Nice attack. The vermin had an HGV license so I presume he had work. It was therefore not done by someone on the scrapheap of society, marginalised or alienated, then radicalised, this time.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 16 Jul 16 10.14am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
You may abhor 'these vermin' but you speak up for what they want.....the restriction of free speech. I believe you are well intentioned but just wrong.....appeasement just doesn't work.....giving a little is never enough for ideological (religiously extreme) people. I agree that freedom of speech should be protected, but I just see this type of speech as freedom to insult. If you have a debate or disagreement with someone then that's acceptable. If you insult someone then what they'll do is unpredictable. Laugh, retort, flounce, swerve you permanently or give you a thump.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 16 Jul 16 10.25am |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Not going to go back or suck it up they? And there is a major problem. The radicalised I mean. I agree with we respect country's culture when we travel, apart from football, Crete, Falaraki, Majorca etc, but there's a lot of fear of punishment as well as respect as travelling Brits. In the UK it's a prison full of radical elements of Islam. Hardly putting them off. Well capitulation is not an option so I would say that all other options must remain on the table. There is certainly no room for negotiating. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (16 Jul 2016 10.25am)
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 16 Jul 16 10.27am |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Well capitulation is not an option so I would say that all other options must remain on the table. There is certainly no room for negotiating. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (16 Jul 2016 10.25am) No room for negotiation. That is for certain. Capitulation shouldn't be an option either.
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| Stirlingsays 16 Jul 16 10.33am |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
I agree that freedom of speech should be protected, but I just see this type of speech as freedom to insult. If you have a debate or disagreement with someone then that's acceptable. If you insult someone then what they'll do is unpredictable. Laugh, retort, flounce, swerve you permanently or give you a thump. Apart of freedom of speech is the freedom to insult......think about it....Freedom of speech couldn't work any other way. The fact that someone feels insulted or feels their religion is insulted means nothing as regards western values. What is correctly restricted is incitement to violence or hatred. In your world, we wouldn't have 'the life of Brian'.....Indeed we wouldn't have modern science or technology as we wouldn't have had the enlightenment. There was a hell of a lot of insulted religious people back when that was happening.....they responded violently too.......Should we have stopped? As I say....well intentioned, just wrong.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 16 Jul 16 10.46am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Apart of freedom of speech is the freedom to insult......think about it....Freedom of speech couldn't work any other way. The fact that someone feels insulted or feels their religion is insulted means nothing as regards western values. What is correctly restricted is incitement to violence or hatred. In your world, we wouldn't have 'the life of Brian'.....Indeed we wouldn't have modern science or technology as we wouldn't have had the enlightenment. There was a hell of a lot of insulted religious people back when that was happening.....they responded violently too.......Should we have stopped? As I say....well intentioned, just wrong. I wouldn't miss the Life of Brian, not my thing, but I get the logic and your point. And there are other religious satire that's funny. Bans on publishing theories of evolution would be a huge loss to us all, apart from those in denial. I just couldn't accept it if one of mine was innocently murdered following a warning over an insult that was ignored.
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| Stirlingsays 16 Jul 16 11.04am |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
I wouldn't miss the Life of Brian, not my thing, but I get the logic and your point. And there are other religious satire that's funny. Bans on publishing theories of evolution would be a huge loss to us all, apart from those in denial. I just couldn't accept it if one of mine was innocently murdered following a warning over an insult that was ignored. It's admirable that you can see the logic is another's argument. Many just can't be bothered. I agree in many circumstances to heed a warning is sensible.....However, when it comes to free speech...that's a non negotiable. It's has helped to get us here.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 16 Jul 16 11.12am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
It's admirable that you can see the logic is another's argument. Many just can't be bothered. It's has helped to get us here. Doesn't stop you feeling dejected with the 2 sides and situation. As I said, medieval beliefs and modern societies aren't compatible, but they're here, and here they wills stay in my prediction, not necessarily my desire. Lucky I have no reason to go to France or Belgium. Others do, but you're probably safer now in Paris or Nice.
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