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Kermit8 Hevon 12 Aug 14 10.47am
Quote Johnny Eagles at 12 Aug 2014 10.11am Quote legaleagle at 12 Aug 2014 9.14am It is interesting that so often those who are against immigration focus on current immigration and that it is somehow different to previous waves of immigration as being serious cause for concern. This is as old as the hills (look at what was being said in the late 19th century re Jewish immigration from Eastern Europe as but one example)...ie the world as they knew it was going to change and the character of England would change irrevocably for the worse unless something was done, conveniently overlooking the benefits brought to the country/utter objective lack of doom arising from previous waves of immigration, and most importantly that perceptions of immigration as a major cause of concern were just diversionary given the real issues facing the country. It's equally interesting that so often those who favour uncontrolled immigration conveniently overlook the actual problems it can and does cause. For example, I think we are, as a country, still dealing with loads of legacy issues from the last wave of immigration in the 1960s and 1970s. Go to Bradford or Rochdale to see how the promotion of multiculturalism has basically resulted in segregated communities living paralell lives. Britain is very far from the rainbow-coloured paradise of 'equality and diversity' which lots of self-proclaimed enlightened lefties like to think it is. My point is, a lot of people who criticise immigration recognise that it brings problems as well as benefits. That is, their position is a lot more nuanced and informed than their opponents care to admit. And it's a convenient Aunt Sally to just label them all racists and doom-mongers because it means you don't have to answer the legitimate points they raise. Unlike you to be so knee-jerky Johnny. Who are those who favour uncontrolled immigration? We have controls in place. The whole world can't come here. Who is it that wants that policy to change? Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 12 Aug 14 10.47am

Quote Johnny Eagles at 12 Aug 2014 10.11am

Quote legaleagle at 12 Aug 2014 9.14am

It is interesting that so often those who are against immigration focus on current immigration and that it is somehow different to previous waves of immigration as being serious cause for concern. This is as old as the hills (look at what was being said in the late 19th century re Jewish immigration from Eastern Europe as but one example)...ie the world as they knew it was going to change and the character of England would change irrevocably for the worse unless something was done, conveniently overlooking the benefits brought to the country/utter objective lack of doom arising from previous waves of immigration, and most importantly that perceptions of immigration as a major cause of concern were just diversionary given the real issues facing the country.

It's equally interesting that so often those who favour uncontrolled immigration conveniently overlook the actual problems it can and does cause.

For example, I think we are, as a country, still dealing with loads of legacy issues from the last wave of immigration in the 1960s and 1970s. Go to Bradford or Rochdale to see how the promotion of multiculturalism has basically resulted in segregated communities living paralell lives. Britain is very far from the rainbow-coloured paradise of 'equality and diversity' which lots of self-proclaimed enlightened lefties like to think it is.

My point is, a lot of people who criticise immigration recognise that it brings problems *as well as* benefits. That is, their position is a lot more nuanced and informed than their opponents care to admit. And it's a convenient Aunt Sally to just label them all racists and doom-mongers because it means you don't have to answer the legitimate points they raise.

Unlike you to be so knee-jerky Johnny. Who are those who favour uncontrolled immigration?

We have controls in place. The whole world can't come here. Who is it that wants that policy to change?

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Stirlingsays 12 Aug 14 11.03am
Quote Kermit8 at 12 Aug 2014 10.47am Unlike you to be so knee-jerky Johnny. Who are those who favour uncontrolled immigration? We have controls in place. The whole world can't come here. Who is it that wants that policy to change? Only for non-EU immigration. The dramatic increases in overall immigration to this country have degraded services and infrastructure provision and indirectly worsened the housing crises....I can't remember the exact statistic but we require a new city every number of years now.....We can't afford it....The left, despite your apparent acceptance, have opposed immigration controls at every turn and continue to stick their heads in the sand. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Aug 2014 11.16am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

12 Aug 14 11.03am

Quote Kermit8 at 12 Aug 2014 10.47am

Unlike you to be so knee-jerky Johnny. Who are those who favour uncontrolled immigration?

We have controls in place. The whole world can't come here. Who is it that wants that policy to change?

Only for non-EU immigration.

The dramatic increases in overall immigration to this country have degraded services and infrastructure provision and indirectly worsened the housing crises....I can't remember the exact statistic but we require a new city every number of years now.....We can't afford it....The left, despite your apparent acceptance, have opposed immigration controls at every turn and continue to stick their heads in the sand.

Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Aug 2014 11.16am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Johnny Eagles berlin 12 Aug 14 11.13am
Quote Kermit8 at 12 Aug 2014 10.47am Quote Johnny Eagles at 12 Aug 2014 10.11am Quote legaleagle at 12 Aug 2014 9.14am It is interesting that so often those who are against immigration focus on current immigration and that it is somehow different to previous waves of immigration as being serious cause for concern. This is as old as the hills (look at what was being said in the late 19th century re Jewish immigration from Eastern Europe as but one example)...ie the world as they knew it was going to change and the character of England would change irrevocably for the worse unless something was done, conveniently overlooking the benefits brought to the country/utter objective lack of doom arising from previous waves of immigration, and most importantly that perceptions of immigration as a major cause of concern were just diversionary given the real issues facing the country. It's equally interesting that so often those who favour uncontrolled immigration conveniently overlook the actual problems it can and does cause. For example, I think we are, as a country, still dealing with loads of legacy issues from the last wave of immigration in the 1960s and 1970s. Go to Bradford or Rochdale to see how the promotion of multiculturalism has basically resulted in segregated communities living paralell lives. Britain is very far from the rainbow-coloured paradise of 'equality and diversity' which lots of self-proclaimed enlightened lefties like to think it is. My point is, a lot of people who criticise immigration recognise that it brings problems as well as benefits. That is, their position is a lot more nuanced and informed than their opponents care to admit. And it's a convenient Aunt Sally to just label them all racists and doom-mongers because it means you don't have to answer the legitimate points they raise. Unlike you to be so knee-jerky Johnny. Who are those who favour uncontrolled immigration? We have controls in place. The whole world can't come here. Who is it that wants that policy to change? I wasn't sure quite how to put it. "Those who favour immigration" sets up a false dichotomy, because there aren't many people - and certainly not UKIP - who oppose all immigration. "Those who favour uncontrolled immigration" is perhaps a bit pejorative. "Those who generally favour immigration" is perhaps a slightly fairer way of saying it? The point I'm trying to make is that people who are anti-anti-immigration are often more blinkered than the people who they say are blinkered. Does that make sense now? ...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...
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Johnny Eagles

berlin 12 Aug 14 11.13am

Quote Kermit8 at 12 Aug 2014 10.47am

Quote Johnny Eagles at 12 Aug 2014 10.11am

Quote legaleagle at 12 Aug 2014 9.14am

It's equally interesting that so often those who favour uncontrolled immigration conveniently overlook the actual problems it can and does cause.

Unlike you to be so knee-jerky Johnny. Who are those who favour uncontrolled immigration?

We have controls in place. The whole world can't come here. Who is it that wants that policy to change?

I wasn't sure quite how to put it.

"Those who favour immigration" sets up a false dichotomy, because there aren't many people - and certainly not UKIP - who oppose all immigration.

"Those who favour uncontrolled immigration" is perhaps a bit pejorative.

"Those who generally favour immigration" is perhaps a slightly fairer way of saying it?

The point I'm trying to make is that people who are anti-anti-immigration are often more blinkered than the people who they say are blinkered.

Does that make sense now?

...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...

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Kermit8 Hevon 12 Aug 14 11.21am
Quote Stirlingsays at 12 Aug 2014 11.03am Quote Kermit8 at 12 Aug 2014 10.47am Unlike you to be so knee-jerky Johnny. Who are those who favour uncontrolled immigration? We have controls in place. The whole world can't come here. Who is it that wants that policy to change? Only for non-EU immigration. The dramatic increases in overall immigration to this country have degraded services and infrastructure provision and indirectly worsened the housing crises....I can't remember the exact statistic but we require a new city every number of years now.....We can't afford it....The left, despite your apparent acceptance, have opposed immigration controls at every turn and continue to stick their heads in the sand. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Aug 2014 11.16am) But the right have been in power for 22 of the last 35 years. That's nearly 70% of Government time in that period. So surely they must be to blame for not controlling immigration more and have their heads in the sand even deeper? Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 12 Aug 14 11.21am

Quote Stirlingsays at 12 Aug 2014 11.03am

Quote Kermit8 at 12 Aug 2014 10.47am

Unlike you to be so knee-jerky Johnny. Who are those who favour uncontrolled immigration?

We have controls in place. The whole world can't come here. Who is it that wants that policy to change?

Only for non-EU immigration.

Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Aug 2014 11.16am)

But the right have been in power for 22 of the last 35 years. That's nearly 70% of Government time in that period. So surely they must be to blame for not controlling immigration more and have their heads in the sand even deeper?

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Kermit8 Hevon 12 Aug 14 11.24am
Quote Johnny Eagles at 12 Aug 2014 11.13am Quote Kermit8 at 12 Aug 2014 10.47am Quote Johnny Eagles at 12 Aug 2014 10.11am Quote legaleagle at 12 Aug 2014 9.14am It is interesting that so often those who are against immigration focus on current immigration and that it is somehow different to previous waves of immigration as being serious cause for concern. This is as old as the hills (look at what was being said in the late 19th century re Jewish immigration from Eastern Europe as but one example)...ie the world as they knew it was going to change and the character of England would change irrevocably for the worse unless something was done, conveniently overlooking the benefits brought to the country/utter objective lack of doom arising from previous waves of immigration, and most importantly that perceptions of immigration as a major cause of concern were just diversionary given the real issues facing the country. It's equally interesting that so often those who favour uncontrolled immigration conveniently overlook the actual problems it can and does cause. For example, I think we are, as a country, still dealing with loads of legacy issues from the last wave of immigration in the 1960s and 1970s. Go to Bradford or Rochdale to see how the promotion of multiculturalism has basically resulted in segregated communities living paralell lives. Britain is very far from the rainbow-coloured paradise of 'equality and diversity' which lots of self-proclaimed enlightened lefties like to think it is. My point is, a lot of people who criticise immigration recognise that it brings problems as well as benefits. That is, their position is a lot more nuanced and informed than their opponents care to admit. And it's a convenient Aunt Sally to just label them all racists and doom-mongers because it means you don't have to answer the legitimate points they raise. Unlike you to be so knee-jerky Johnny. Who are those who favour uncontrolled immigration? We have controls in place. The whole world can't come here. Who is it that wants that policy to change? I wasn't sure quite how to put it. "Those who favour immigration" sets up a false dichotomy, because there aren't many people - and certainly not UKIP - who oppose all immigration. "Those who favour uncontrolled immigration" is perhaps a bit pejorative. "Those who generally favour immigration" is perhaps a slightly fairer way of saying it? The point I'm trying to make is that people who are anti-anti-immigration are often more blinkered than the people who they say are blinkered. Does that make sense now? That's better. We don't want you turning into a crusty Tory yet Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 12 Aug 14 11.24am

Quote Johnny Eagles at 12 Aug 2014 11.13am

Quote Kermit8 at 12 Aug 2014 10.47am

Quote Johnny Eagles at 12 Aug 2014 10.11am

Quote legaleagle at 12 Aug 2014 9.14am

It's equally interesting that so often those who favour uncontrolled immigration conveniently overlook the actual problems it can and does cause.

Unlike you to be so knee-jerky Johnny. Who are those who favour uncontrolled immigration?

We have controls in place. The whole world can't come here. Who is it that wants that policy to change?

I wasn't sure quite how to put it.

"Those who favour immigration" sets up a false dichotomy, because there aren't many people - and certainly not UKIP - who oppose all immigration.

"Those who favour uncontrolled immigration" is perhaps a bit pejorative.

"Those who generally favour immigration" is perhaps a slightly fairer way of saying it?

The point I'm trying to make is that people who are anti-anti-immigration are often more blinkered than the people who they say are blinkered.

Does that make sense now?

That's better. We don't want you turning into a crusty Tory yet

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Stirlingsays 12 Aug 14 11.27am
Quote Kermit8 at 12 Aug 2014 11.21am But the right have been in power for 22 of the last 35 years. That's nearly 70% of Government time in that period. So surely they must be to blame for not controlling immigration more and have their heads in the sand even deeper? You're not wrong......though as it is for Labour the actual leaderships have looked and acted little like their actual party memberships. It's why we have needed Ukip to bring immigration to the fore. The vulnerable people at the lower end of society shouldn't have to suffer lower living standards and access to housing because the middle classes want their cheap plumbers and labour. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

12 Aug 14 11.27am

Quote Kermit8 at 12 Aug 2014 11.21am

You're not wrong......though as it is for Labour the actual leaderships have looked and acted little like their actual party memberships.

It's why we have needed Ukip to bring immigration to the fore. The vulnerable people at the lower end of society shouldn't have to suffer lower living standards and access to housing because the middle classes want their cheap plumbers and labour.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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black eagle. south croydon. 12 Aug 14 11.28am
By the way the speech i spoke about Farage giving in the 90's using the N word over and over again was brought to my attention by respected LBC presenter James O'Brian,he mentioned it on his show a few weeks ago. i can't remember weather he heard the tape or not,might ask him on twitter,but the tape is in circulation i believe.
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black eagle.

south croydon. 12 Aug 14 11.28am

By the way the speech i spoke about Farage giving in the 90's using the N word over and over again was brought to my attention by respected LBC presenter James O'Brian,he mentioned it on his show a few weeks ago.

i can't remember weather he heard the tape or not,might ask him on twitter,but the tape is in circulation i believe.

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Kermit8 Hevon 12 Aug 14 11.31am
Quote Stirlingsays at 12 Aug 2014 11.27am Quote Kermit8 at 12 Aug 2014 11.21am But the right have been in power for 22 of the last 35 years. That's nearly 70% of Government time in that period. So surely they must be to blame for not controlling immigration more and have their heads in the sand even deeper? You're not wrong......though as it is for Labour the actual leaderships have looked and acted little like their actual party memberships. It's why we have needed Ukip to bring immigration to the fore. The vulnerable people at the lower end of society shouldn't have to suffer lower living standards and access to housing because the middle classes want their cheap plumbers and labour. They have always been in much more danger and suffered from Tory governments in my lifetime than from foreign tradesmen. Edited by Kermit8 (12 Aug 2014 11.31am) Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 12 Aug 14 11.31am

Quote Stirlingsays at 12 Aug 2014 11.27am

Quote Kermit8 at 12 Aug 2014 11.21am

You're not wrong......though as it is for Labour the actual leaderships have looked and acted little like their actual party memberships.

It's why we have needed Ukip to bring immigration to the fore. The vulnerable people at the lower end of society shouldn't have to suffer lower living standards and access to housing because the middle classes want their cheap plumbers and labour.

They have always been in much more danger and suffered from Tory governments in my lifetime than from foreign tradesmen.

Edited by Kermit8 (12 Aug 2014 11.31am)

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Stirlingsays 12 Aug 14 11.32am
Quote black eagle. at 12 Aug 2014 11.28am By the way the speech i spoke about Farage giving in the 90's using the N word over and over again was brought to my attention by respected LBC presenter James O'Brian,he mentioned it on his show a few weeks ago. i can't remember weather he heard the tape or not,might ask him on twitter,but the tape is in circulation i believe. If it actually existed I'd imagine it would have been used by now. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

12 Aug 14 11.32am

Quote black eagle. at 12 Aug 2014 11.28am

i can't remember weather he heard the tape or not,might ask him on twitter,but the tape is in circulation i believe.

If it actually existed I'd imagine it would have been used by now.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Kermit8 Hevon 12 Aug 14 11.34am
Quote black eagle. at 12 Aug 2014 11.28am By the way the speech i spoke about Farage giving in the 90's using the N word over and over again was brought to my attention by respected LBC presenter James O'Brian,he mentioned it on his show a few weeks ago. i can't remember weather he heard the tape or not,might ask him on twitter,but the tape is in circulation i believe. There is no actual proof but too many people have come forward with accusations of his racist behaviour when younger and with no apparent axe to grind for there not to be some substance in it. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 12 Aug 14 11.34am

Quote black eagle. at 12 Aug 2014 11.28am

i can't remember weather he heard the tape or not,might ask him on twitter,but the tape is in circulation i believe.

There is no actual proof but too many people have come forward with accusations of his racist behaviour when younger and with no apparent axe to grind for there not to be some substance in it.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 12 Aug 14 11.37am
Quote Stirlingsays at 12 Aug 2014 11.27am Quote Kermit8 at 12 Aug 2014 11.21am But the right have been in power for 22 of the last 35 years. That's nearly 70% of Government time in that period. So surely they must be to blame for not controlling immigration more and have their heads in the sand even deeper? You're not wrong......though as it is for Labour the actual leaderships have looked and acted little like their actual party memberships. It's why we have needed Ukip to bring immigration to the fore. The vulnerable people at the lower end of society shouldn't have to suffer lower living standards and access to housing because the middle classes want their cheap plumbers and labour. I think it's facile to blame immigration for lower living standards and lack of cheap housing. Successive neoliberal governments are to blame for this.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 12 Aug 14 11.37am

Quote Stirlingsays at 12 Aug 2014 11.27am

Quote Kermit8 at 12 Aug 2014 11.21am

You're not wrong......though as it is for Labour the actual leaderships have looked and acted little like their actual party memberships.

I think it's facile to blame immigration for lower living standards and lack of cheap housing.
Successive neoliberal governments are to blame for this.

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Stirlingsays 12 Aug 14 11.39am
Quote Kermit8 at 12 Aug 2014 11.31am They have always been in much more danger and suffered from Tory governments in my lifetime than from foreign tradesmen. Edited by Kermit8 (12 Aug 2014 11.31am) Deflection. Also let it not be forgotten that by far the biggest increases in immigration to this country came with Labour in charge headed by Blair/Brown. Labour, did in the past, do a lot to improve the lot of the working class via social policies but their economic failures always hammered the poor far more than anyone else. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

12 Aug 14 11.39am

Quote Kermit8 at 12 Aug 2014 11.31am

They have always been in much more danger and suffered from Tory governments in my lifetime than from foreign tradesmen.

Edited by Kermit8 (12 Aug 2014 11.31am)

Deflection.

Also let it not be forgotten that by far the biggest increases in immigration to this country came with Labour in charge headed by Blair/Brown.

Labour, did in the past, do a lot to improve the lot of the working class via social policies but their economic failures always hammered the poor far more than anyone else.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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