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derben  16 Jun 15 2.59pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 Jun 2015 1.22pm
Quote derben at 16 Jun 2015 12.47pm
Quote nickgusset at 16 Jun 2015 12.37pm
Quote derben at 16 Jun 2015 6.32am
What excuses are the apologists going to come up with for them? How are they going to blame the 'wider community', police, teachers etc - ie: everyone apart from these people themselves. Who are these apologists you speak of? The BBC's favorite is Moazaam Begg - of course the BBC in general too. Various Muslim 'community' spokesmen, and many members of the lib/left new establishment. Oh, and the Guardian and the ironically named Independent. By apologist, do you mean reporting the facts as known, rather than ranting in a fake moral outrage? No, I mean playing down the responsibility of the individuals concerned in joining an organisation such as IS, and instead blaming it on non-Muslim agencies such as the police. Nothing fake about my moral outrage over this. (PS: liked the full house joke).
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 16 Jun 15 3.00pm |
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Quote elgrande at 16 Jun 2015 2.37pm
Quote npn at 16 Jun 2015 2.32pm
Quote elgrande at 16 Jun 2015 2.23pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 Jun 2015 1.24pm
Quote derben at 16 Jun 2015 6.32am
What excuses are the apologists going to come up with for them? How are they going to blame the 'wider community', police, teachers etc - ie: everyone apart from these people themselves. The family have complained that the police have been no help at all in tracking down the missing girls, and that it turns out that there is only one British Police officer working in Turkey to identify people going to and from Syria. Which in fairness sounds a bit sh*t. We'd send more to identify possible hooligans at a international friendly. Bollocks Jamie,its the parents and the so called community leaders who should be doing more. This is where their wonderful mosque s should be doing more,not the police.
As an aside, what sort of mother takes young kids to live under such a regime by choice? "Tidy your room and do your homework, or I'll have your hand off" Ok say we use the intelligence to stop these people going,and say put some sort of banning order from leaving the country. We do, its against the law to travel abroad for the purpose of terrorism, a number of people are awaiting trial for this. We also arrest them on return. Also its problematic because we've been training people and allowing people to go to Syria to support humanitarian projects as well, and until recently anti-Assad groups, and to join Kurdish militias in Iraq and Syria). Not everyone who goes to Syria is joining IS. They went missing after a pilgrimage to Saudi Arabia.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 16 Jun 15 3.05pm |
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Quote derben at 16 Jun 2015 2.59pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 Jun 2015 1.22pm
Quote derben at 16 Jun 2015 12.47pm
Quote nickgusset at 16 Jun 2015 12.37pm
Quote derben at 16 Jun 2015 6.32am
What excuses are the apologists going to come up with for them? How are they going to blame the 'wider community', police, teachers etc - ie: everyone apart from these people themselves. Who are these apologists you speak of? The BBC's favorite is Moazaam Begg - of course the BBC in general too. Various Muslim 'community' spokesmen, and many members of the lib/left new establishment. Oh, and the Guardian and the ironically named Independent. By apologist, do you mean reporting the facts as known, rather than ranting in a fake moral outrage? No, I mean playing down the responsibility of the individuals concerned in joining an organisation such as IS, and instead blaming it on non-Muslim agencies such as the police. Nothing fake about my moral outrage over this. (PS: liked the full house joke). Yeah that kind of gets to me as well, truth be told, although sometimes the assumption that anyone headed to Syria is joining IS is flawed (they're not the only faction or group operating in the country). But if you've made a decision, its your fault, you are to blame, when its something as serious as this. Youthful high jinks doesn't preclude you from being responsible for getting into very serious s**t. This isn't whipping your tits out on a sacred mountain. Of course the Police are the people who are supposed to find them. Assuming they're in Syria with IS, is the kind of thing you want to confirm, or strongly demonstrate not maybe wave hands and say 'possibly'. Not least because 9 innocent UK citizens are with them.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 16 Jun 15 3.08pm |
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Quote npn at 16 Jun 2015 2.32pm
Quote elgrande at 16 Jun 2015 2.23pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 Jun 2015 1.24pm
Quote derben at 16 Jun 2015 6.32am
What excuses are the apologists going to come up with for them? How are they going to blame the 'wider community', police, teachers etc - ie: everyone apart from these people themselves. The family have complained that the police have been no help at all in tracking down the missing girls, and that it turns out that there is only one British Police officer working in Turkey to identify people going to and from Syria. Which in fairness sounds a bit sh*t. We'd send more to identify possible hooligans at a international friendly. Bollocks Jamie,its the parents and the so called community leaders who should be doing more. This is where their wonderful mosque s should be doing more,not the police.
As an aside, what sort of mother takes young kids to live under such a regime by choice? "Tidy your room and do your homework, or I'll have your hand off" Also I'm pretty sure that Turkey aren't the most reliable ally when it comes to people sneaking over the border to fight a war that involves killing Kurds.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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 elgrande bedford 16 Jun 15 3.14pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 Jun 2015 2.55pm
Quote elgrande at 16 Jun 2015 2.23pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 Jun 2015 1.24pm
Quote derben at 16 Jun 2015 6.32am
What excuses are the apologists going to come up with for them? How are they going to blame the 'wider community', police, teachers etc - ie: everyone apart from these people themselves. The family have complained that the police have been no help at all in tracking down the missing girls, and that it turns out that there is only one British Police officer working in Turkey to identify people going to and from Syria. Which in fairness sounds a bit sh*t. We'd send more to identify possible hooligans at a international friendly. Bollocks Jamie,its the parents and the so called community leaders who should be doing more. This is where their wonderful mosque s should be doing more,not the police. I'm not really sure they can. I was generally led to believe that missing persons, terrorists, criminals and the like was the role of the police. I don't think it changes because they're Muslim. Also, its kind of important to actually work out where they have gone, even if they've gone to Syria, they have taken 9 British Children with them into a war zone. I'm not really sure that mosques and family have that kind of capability or resources to find missing people, terror suspects, missing uk citizens or abducted children. I'm also fairly convinced that one liason officer, who can't be contacted or return calls, because he's too busy shows a really serious level of concern by the UK - Hopefully MI-6 has more than one person working Turkey Not saying they should search for them,I am saying they have to take a bigger role in telling the idiots who want to go out to Iraq/Syria/wherever that its not Islam that they are following.
always a Norwood boy, where ever I live. |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 16 Jun 15 4.14pm |
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Quote elgrande at 16 Jun 2015 3.14pm
Not saying they should search for them,I am saying they have to take a bigger role in telling the idiots who want to go out to Iraq/Syria/wherever that its not Islam that they are following. I don't know what they do in Mosques, truth be told, so I couldn't say for certain whether or not that's the case. Obviously they can't just spend all their time banging on about how IS is actually itself apostacy. I suspect that people also 'select their mosque', like churches, looking for the one that speaks to them. So the angry, outraged generally 'rage teens' probably go looking for something more 'extreme' and generally play nicely in public. IS aren't like Al-Qaeda, who required that their followers went through the correct religious instruction as well as actual training. IS operate a more 'come as you are' approach, rather than religious figures. I'd imagine a lot of it occurs online now rather than the Mosques and abroad (which probably by now have more informants than members).
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Mapletree Croydon 16 Jun 15 4.15pm |
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Not saying they should search for them,I am saying they have to take a bigger role in telling the idiots who want to go out to Iraq/Syria/wherever that its not Islam that they are following.
But I have a feeling many of these eejuts aren't going to mainstream mosques. And also that the mosques are trying hard not to drive the more extreme of their people into the arms of radicals by simply haranguing them. Anyone here attend a mosque and like to give us a view of what is being done inside their community to stem this? I know it would be hard to come above the parapet with some of the pillocks on this site so understand if nobody wants to.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 16 Jun 15 4.22pm |
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Quote Mapletree at 16 Jun 2015 4.15pm
Not saying they should search for them,I am saying they have to take a bigger role in telling the idiots who want to go out to Iraq/Syria/wherever that its not Islam that they are following.
But I have a feeling many of these eejuts aren't going to mainstream mosques. And also that the mosques are trying hard not to drive the more extreme of their people into the arms of radicals by simply haranguing them. Anyone here attend a mosque and like to give us a view of what is being done inside their community to stem this? I know it would be hard to come above the parapet with some of the pillocks on this site so understand if nobody wants to. I'd imagine the same kind of thing Churches did to stop people becoming IRA or Loyalist terrorist. IS, unlike Al-Qaeda, doesn't really ally itself with religious instruction (Infact a lot of the ex-mad Mullahs, have been publically slating IS, of course they were all Al-Qaeda types). Unlike Al-Qaeda, which was very strict on religious instruction of the mujahedeen and martyr, IS has a more open door policy (ie you don't need to have undergone religious instruction or approval that Al-Qaeda demanded, which is why those pakistani trips were popular with Al-Qaeda adherents).
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Hoof Hearted 16 Jun 15 5.12pm | |
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Quote Mad4palace at 14 Jun 2015 7.48pm
I find the tone which the media speaks of jihadists that are under 18 as primarily victims very annoying. When we're talking about 14/15 year olds I have a little more understanding that they can be exploited but at 17 your decisions are your decisions.
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| OldFella London 16 Jun 15 5.24pm |
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Quote dannyh at 15 Jun 2015 11.08am
Yep those are the ones, the ones who don't take an interest in thier kids day to day lives because it's to much hassle. I'm a single dad with a demanding Job, I know just by looking at my kids if they even had someone take the piss in the play ground, it's not rocket science, it's just knowing your kids, and treating them as a blessing not a burden, or a way to get more benefits. Spot on, Danny. I've got 4 kids, and it really isn't rocket science. Just a mixture of making time, listening, setting proper/decent boundaries, love and patience. And bringing them up as Palace fans
Jackson.. Wan Bissaka.... Sansom.. Nicholas.. Cannon.. Guehi.... Zaha... Thomas.. Byrne... Holton.. Rogers.. that should do it.. |
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| derben 16 Jun 15 5.37pm |
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It is pointless comparing how indigenous non-Muslim people bring their kids up with how Muslims do. The have a very different set of 'values' and are religion-ridden. It is like a country within a country. We need to maintain diplomatic relations but be on guard. Edited by derben (16 Jun 2015 5.37pm)
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| TUX redhill 16 Jun 15 8.19pm |
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Quote derben at 14 Jun 2015 5.55pm
Apparently he was a "loving, kind, caring and affable teenager" ... "he never harboured any ill will against anybody nor did he ever exhibit any violent, extreme or radical views of any kind". Good job he wasn't a nasty bloke, goodness knows what he would have done then. Edited by derben (14 Jun 2015 5.59pm) Stayed here?
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