Schools crisis.

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Hoof Hearted 15 Oct 15 5.07pm
Let them eat cake!
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Hoof Hearted 15 Oct 15 5.07pm

Let them eat cake!

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Kermit8 Hevon 15 Oct 15 5.09pm
How are the bankers doing? Alright? Lovely. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 15 Oct 15 5.09pm

How are the bankers doing? Alright? Lovely.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Catfish Burgess Hill 15 Oct 15 5.44pm
We will see a few public services collapse over the next two or three years. What I think will also happen is that public service jobs will be so devalued that getting anyone back into them in future will be difficult. Public service = McJob. Yes, I am an agent of Satan but my duties are largely ceremonial
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Catfish

Burgess Hill 15 Oct 15 5.44pm

We will see a few public services collapse over the next two or three years. What I think will also happen is that public service jobs will be so devalued that getting anyone back into them in future will be difficult. Public service = McJob.

Yes, I am an agent of Satan but my duties are largely ceremonial

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Tom-the-eagle Croydon 15 Oct 15 6.36pm
Quote nickgusset at 15 Oct 2015 7.42am Pupil numbers growing. Record numbers of teachers leaving (49100) last year. [Link] Good work Gove and Morgan Unfortunately Nick this like so many other threads on here comes down to high numbers of recent arrivals. Now you can say it does not, but we all know you would be either delusional or just lying. I have 3 children of school age who due to their age go to three different schools. The school where my middle child goes to (which is the same school my son left a couple of years ago) has now become full of predominately Eastern European children. All this has happened within the 3 years of him leaving and her starting). The fact is, be it schools, jobs, houses or hospital beds Nick, with an open door immigration policy these kind of things will only ever get worse. You can blame Gove and Morgan all you like, but they’re not the actual ones at fault here. Edited by Tom-the-eagle (15 Oct 2015 6.37pm) "It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit
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Tom-the-eagle

Croydon 15 Oct 15 6.36pm

Quote nickgusset at 15 Oct 2015 7.42am

Pupil numbers growing. Record numbers of teachers leaving (49100) last year.
[Link]

Good work Gove and Morgan

Unfortunately Nick this like so many other threads on here comes down to high numbers of recent arrivals. Now you can say it does not, but we all know you would be either delusional or just lying. I have 3 children of school age who due to their age go to three different schools.
The school where my middle child goes to (which is the same school my son left a couple of years ago) has now become full of predominately Eastern European children. All this has happened within the 3 years of him leaving and her starting). The fact is, be it schools, jobs, houses or hospital beds Nick, with an open door immigration policy these kind of things will only ever get worse.
You can blame Gove and Morgan all you like, but they’re not the actual ones at fault here.

Edited by Tom-the-eagle (15 Oct 2015 6.37pm)

"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 15 Oct 15 7.28pm
Quote Tom-the-eagle at 15 Oct 2015 6.36pm Quote nickgusset at 15 Oct 2015 7.42am Pupil numbers growing. Record numbers of teachers leaving (49100) last year. [Link] Good work Gove and Morgan Unfortunately Nick this like so many other threads on here comes down to high numbers of recent arrivals. Now you can say it does not, but we all know you would be either delusional or just lying. I have 3 children of school age who due to their age go to three different schools. The school where my middle child goes to (which is the same school my son left a couple of years ago) has now become full of predominately Eastern European children. All this has happened within the 3 years of him leaving and her starting). The fact is, be it schools, jobs, houses or hospital beds Nick, with an open door immigration policy these kind of things will only ever get worse. You can blame Gove and Morgan all you like, but they’re not the actual ones at fault here. Edited by Tom-the-eagle (15 Oct 2015 6.37pm) You may be right about pupil numbers, but it's been known for years that more schools are needed One of the first things that the coalition did was stop the schools building programme and remove powers from local authorities from deciding where schools were most needed and building them. The other part of the story about record numbers of teachers quitting... Many have just had enough of the 12 hour days + working at the weekend too. There just isn't enough time to do everything required. Constant scrutiny, observations, changing legislation and bullying management is rife within the profession. Levels of stress within the profession is rising, compounded by the above. I'd go so far to say that the system is nearly at breaking point.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 15 Oct 15 7.28pm

Quote Tom-the-eagle at 15 Oct 2015 6.36pm

Quote nickgusset at 15 Oct 2015 7.42am

Pupil numbers growing. Record numbers of teachers leaving (49100) last year.
[Link]

Good work Gove and Morgan

Edited by Tom-the-eagle (15 Oct 2015 6.37pm)

You may be right about pupil numbers, but it's been known for years that more schools are needed One of the first things that the coalition did was stop the schools building programme and remove powers from local authorities from deciding where schools were most needed and building them.

The other part of the story about record numbers of teachers quitting...

Many have just had enough of the 12 hour days + working at the weekend too. There just isn't enough time to do everything required.
Constant scrutiny, observations, changing legislation and bullying management is rife within the profession.
Levels of stress within the profession is rising, compounded by the above.
I'd go so far to say that the system is nearly at breaking point.

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Tom-the-eagle Croydon 15 Oct 15 7.45pm
Quote nickgusset at 15 Oct 2015 7.28pm Quote Tom-the-eagle at 15 Oct 2015 6.36pm Quote nickgusset at 15 Oct 2015 7.42am Pupil numbers growing. Record numbers of teachers leaving (49100) last year. [Link] Good work Gove and Morgan Unfortunately Nick this like so many other threads on here comes down to high numbers of recent arrivals. Now you can say it does not, but we all know you would be either delusional or just lying. I have 3 children of school age who due to their age go to three different schools. The school where my middle child goes to (which is the same school my son left a couple of years ago) has now become full of predominately Eastern European children. All this has happened within the 3 years of him leaving and her starting). The fact is, be it schools, jobs, houses or hospital beds Nick, with an open door immigration policy these kind of things will only ever get worse. You can blame Gove and Morgan all you like, but they’re not the actual ones at fault here. Edited by Tom-the-eagle (15 Oct 2015 6.37pm) You may be right about pupil numbers, but it's been known for years that more schools are needed One of the first things that the coalition did was stop the schools building programme and remove powers from local authorities from deciding where schools were most needed and building them. The other part of the story about record numbers of teachers quitting... Many have just had enough of the 12 hour days + working at the weekend too. There just isn't enough time to do everything required. Constant scrutiny, observations, changing legislation and bullying management is rife within the profession. Levels of stress within the profession is rising, compounded by the above. I'd go so far to say that the system is nearly at breaking point. Crikey Nick, you didn't say anything about working weekends, next you guys will be having to cut into your 13 weeks a year paid holidays! Its a changing world i'm afraid, I guess many of the working conditions which we took for granted for so long are now things of the past. "It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit
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Tom-the-eagle

Croydon 15 Oct 15 7.45pm

Quote nickgusset at 15 Oct 2015 7.28pm

Quote Tom-the-eagle at 15 Oct 2015 6.36pm

Quote nickgusset at 15 Oct 2015 7.42am

Pupil numbers growing. Record numbers of teachers leaving (49100) last year.
[Link]

Good work Gove and Morgan

Edited by Tom-the-eagle (15 Oct 2015 6.37pm)

The other part of the story about record numbers of teachers quitting...

Crikey Nick, you didn't say anything about working weekends, next you guys will be having to cut into your 13 weeks a year paid holidays!
Its a changing world i'm afraid, I guess many of the working conditions which we took for granted for so long are now things of the past.

"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 15 Oct 15 7.59pm
Quote Tom-the-eagle at 15 Oct 2015 7.45pm Quote nickgusset at 15 Oct 2015 7.28pm Quote Tom-the-eagle at 15 Oct 2015 6.36pm Quote nickgusset at 15 Oct 2015 7.42am Pupil numbers growing. Record numbers of teachers leaving (49100) last year. [Link] Good work Gove and Morgan Unfortunately Nick this like so many other threads on here comes down to high numbers of recent arrivals. Now you can say it does not, but we all know you would be either delusional or just lying. I have 3 children of school age who due to their age go to three different schools. The school where my middle child goes to (which is the same school my son left a couple of years ago) has now become full of predominately Eastern European children. All this has happened within the 3 years of him leaving and her starting). The fact is, be it schools, jobs, houses or hospital beds Nick, with an open door immigration policy these kind of things will only ever get worse. You can blame Gove and Morgan all you like, but they’re not the actual ones at fault here. Edited by Tom-the-eagle (15 Oct 2015 6.37pm) You may be right about pupil numbers, but it's been known for years that more schools are needed One of the first things that the coalition did was stop the schools building programme and remove powers from local authorities from deciding where schools were most needed and building them. The other part of the story about record numbers of teachers quitting... Many have just had enough of the 12 hour days + working at the weekend too. There just isn't enough time to do everything required. Constant scrutiny, observations, changing legislation and bullying management is rife within the profession. Levels of stress within the profession is rising, compounded by the above. I'd go so far to say that the system is nearly at breaking point. Crikey Nick, you didn't say anything about working weekends, next you guys will be having to cut into your 13 weeks a year paid holidays! Its a changing world i'm afraid, I guess many of the working conditions which we took for granted for so long are now things of the past. I'll be working at least 2 days of the next half term
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 15 Oct 15 7.59pm

Quote Tom-the-eagle at 15 Oct 2015 7.45pm

Quote nickgusset at 15 Oct 2015 7.28pm

Quote Tom-the-eagle at 15 Oct 2015 6.36pm

Quote nickgusset at 15 Oct 2015 7.42am

Pupil numbers growing. Record numbers of teachers leaving (49100) last year.
[Link]

Good work Gove and Morgan

Edited by Tom-the-eagle (15 Oct 2015 6.37pm)

The other part of the story about record numbers of teachers quitting...

I'll be working at least 2 days of the next half term

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Mapletree Croydon 15 Oct 15 9.29pm
Quote Tom-the-eagle at 15 Oct 2015 6.36pm Quote nickgusset at 15 Oct 2015 7.42am Pupil numbers growing. Record numbers of teachers leaving (49100) last year. [Link] Good work Gove and Morgan Unfortunately Nick this like so many other threads on here comes down to high numbers of recent arrivals. Now you can say it does not, but we all know you would be either delusional or just lying. I have 3 children of school age who due to their age go to three different schools. The school where my middle child goes to (which is the same school my son left a couple of years ago) has now become full of predominately Eastern European children. All this has happened within the 3 years of him leaving and her starting). The fact is, be it schools, jobs, houses or hospital beds Nick, with an open door immigration policy these kind of things will only ever get worse. You can blame Gove and Morgan all you like, but they’re not the actual ones at fault here. Edited by Tom-the-eagle (15 Oct 2015 6.37pm) Surely missing Nick's point. School rolls are growing now, that is a fact. Many established teachers are leaving. And if you ask your children how long tenure their teachers have you will probably find, on average, very short. That to some extent suits the schools as new teachers are cheap. But it's no way to run a railway. And by the way I got a grant to do my PGCE.
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Mapletree

Croydon 15 Oct 15 9.29pm

Quote Tom-the-eagle at 15 Oct 2015 6.36pm

Quote nickgusset at 15 Oct 2015 7.42am

Pupil numbers growing. Record numbers of teachers leaving (49100) last year.
[Link]

Good work Gove and Morgan

Edited by Tom-the-eagle (15 Oct 2015 6.37pm)

Surely missing Nick's point.

School rolls are growing now, that is a fact.

Many established teachers are leaving.

And if you ask your children how long tenure their teachers have you will probably find, on average, very short. That to some extent suits the schools as new teachers are cheap. But it's no way to run a railway.

And by the way I got a grant to do my PGCE.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 16 Oct 15 1.38pm
Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 15 Oct 2015 1.55pm So this is Labour telling the government it's all their fault when they were in power for 13 years Why are teachers really leaving ? I'd say because they're being driven out by two major factors, of which both The Conservative and Labour governments have been guilty of. 1) Over extended responsibilities in terms of work. Teachers have a ridiculous work load, especially in terms of fulfilling paper work requirements created by issue 2 2) The politicization of Teaching. Since the 80s revamp of education, there has been an increasingly subversion of the idea of teaching as a means of education, towards the idea of teaching as a means of political campaigning, resulting in lower engagement for teachers in actual education, higher emphasis of schools and councils on exam results and increasing beauracracy for teachers. Most teachers will finish working between 8-10pm most nights during the week, if they're lucky (which results in the next issue 3) The hours. Teachers hours are fking absurd, with the 10 hour day being normal during term time (bear in mind some teachers won't get paid for periods of school holidays). Meanwhile the actual qualification standard for teaching is very high, and often on a par with postgraduate achievements. Whilst teaching pay isn't particularly bad, it is when a) you count the hours required by ofsted, marking, lesson preparation and so on. Secondly, the private market offers a vast potential of assorting teaching and training alternatives, often for less hours, more money and flexible holiday as well as more stimulation. You can earn 30k a teacher, working 50-60 hours a week, with fixed holidays, with a post graduate qualification, degree and years of experience. Or you can earn 300 a day as a trainer for a private company, enjoy working with small groups of adults who want to learn, rather than 30 hormone filled fktards who think they're special. 4) Stimulation - The politicization of education has essentially reduced a teacher to the role of someone who instructs based on a set national ciriculum. The freedom to 'inspire and engage intellectually with the task of teaching' has been reduced to an absolute minimum. Indeed teaching, is increasingly about 'Tables and funding' not educating children, and that is a tragedy. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 16 Oct 15 1.38pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 15 Oct 2015 1.55pm

So this is Labour telling the government it's all their fault when they were in power for 13 years

Why are teachers really leaving ?

I'd say because they're being driven out by two major factors, of which both The Conservative and Labour governments have been guilty of.

1) Over extended responsibilities in terms of work. Teachers have a ridiculous work load, especially in terms of fulfilling paper work requirements created by issue 2

2) The politicization of Teaching. Since the 80s revamp of education, there has been an increasingly subversion of the idea of teaching as a means of education, towards the idea of teaching as a means of political campaigning, resulting in lower engagement for teachers in actual education, higher emphasis of schools and councils on exam results and increasing beauracracy for teachers. Most teachers will finish working between 8-10pm most nights during the week, if they're lucky (which results in the next issue

3) The hours. Teachers hours are f**king absurd, with the 10 hour day being normal during term time (bear in mind some teachers won't get paid for periods of school holidays). Meanwhile the actual qualification standard for teaching is very high, and often on a par with postgraduate achievements. Whilst teaching pay isn't particularly bad, it is when a) you count the hours required by ofsted, marking, lesson preparation and so on. Secondly, the private market offers a vast potential of assorting teaching and training alternatives, often for less hours, more money and flexible holiday as well as more stimulation.

You can earn 30k a teacher, working 50-60 hours a week, with fixed holidays, with a post graduate qualification, degree and years of experience. Or you can earn 300 a day as a trainer for a private company, enjoy working with small groups of adults who want to learn, rather than 30 hormone filled f**ktards who think they're special.

4) Stimulation - The politicization of education has essentially reduced a teacher to the role of someone who instructs based on a set national ciriculum. The freedom to 'inspire and engage intellectually with the task of teaching' has been reduced to an absolute minimum.

Indeed teaching, is increasingly about 'Tables and funding' not educating children, and that is a tragedy.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 16 Oct 15 1.41pm
Quote Tom-the-eagle at 15 Oct 2015 6.36pm Quote nickgusset at 15 Oct 2015 7.42am Pupil numbers growing. Record numbers of teachers leaving (49100) last year. [Link] Good work Gove and Morgan Unfortunately Nick this like so many other threads on here comes down to high numbers of recent arrivals. Now you can say it does not, but we all know you would be either delusional or just lying. I have 3 children of school age who due to their age go to three different schools. The school where my middle child goes to (which is the same school my son left a couple of years ago) has now become full of predominately Eastern European children. All this has happened within the 3 years of him leaving and her starting). The fact is, be it schools, jobs, houses or hospital beds Nick, with an open door immigration policy these kind of things will only ever get worse. You can blame Gove and Morgan all you like, but they’re not the actual ones at fault here. Edited by Tom-the-eagle (15 Oct 2015 6.37pm) I was friends at University with a lot of people training to become Teachers, mostly infants and primary schools, I'd say I known about 10 teachers, and only two of them remained in teaching into their mid 30s and 40s. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 16 Oct 15 1.41pm

Quote Tom-the-eagle at 15 Oct 2015 6.36pm

Quote nickgusset at 15 Oct 2015 7.42am

Pupil numbers growing. Record numbers of teachers leaving (49100) last year.
[Link]

Good work Gove and Morgan

Edited by Tom-the-eagle (15 Oct 2015 6.37pm)

I was friends at University with a lot of people training to become Teachers, mostly infants and primary schools, I'd say I known about 10 teachers, and only two of them remained in teaching into their mid 30s and 40s.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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matt_himself Matataland 16 Oct 15 3.43pm
Teachers having to work 12 hour days and weekends as well! Welcome to reality. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 16 Oct 15 3.43pm

Teachers having to work 12 hour days and weekends as well!

Welcome to reality.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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Stuk Top half 16 Oct 15 3.47pm
Quote nickgusset at 15 Oct 2015 7.59pm Quote Tom-the-eagle at 15 Oct 2015 7.45pm Quote nickgusset at 15 Oct 2015 7.28pm Quote Tom-the-eagle at 15 Oct 2015 6.36pm Quote nickgusset at 15 Oct 2015 7.42am Pupil numbers growing. Record numbers of teachers leaving (49100) last year. [Link] Good work Gove and Morgan Unfortunately Nick this like so many other threads on here comes down to high numbers of recent arrivals. Now you can say it does not, but we all know you would be either delusional or just lying. I have 3 children of school age who due to their age go to three different schools. The school where my middle child goes to (which is the same school my son left a couple of years ago) has now become full of predominately Eastern European children. All this has happened within the 3 years of him leaving and her starting). The fact is, be it schools, jobs, houses or hospital beds Nick, with an open door immigration policy these kind of things will only ever get worse. You can blame Gove and Morgan all you like, but they’re not the actual ones at fault here. Edited by Tom-the-eagle (15 Oct 2015 6.37pm) You may be right about pupil numbers, but it's been known for years that more schools are needed One of the first things that the coalition did was stop the schools building programme and remove powers from local authorities from deciding where schools were most needed and building them. The other part of the story about record numbers of teachers quitting... Many have just had enough of the 12 hour days + working at the weekend too. There just isn't enough time to do everything required. Constant scrutiny, observations, changing legislation and bullying management is rife within the profession. Levels of stress within the profession is rising, compounded by the above. I'd go so far to say that the system is nearly at breaking point. Crikey Nick, you didn't say anything about working weekends, next you guys will be having to cut into your 13 weeks a year paid holidays! Its a changing world i'm afraid, I guess many of the working conditions which we took for granted for so long are now things of the past. I'll be working at least 2 days of the next half term How many do you reckon the rest of us will be working? Optimistic as ever
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Stuk

Top half 16 Oct 15 3.47pm