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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 20 Feb 16 11.21am
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted But who is measuring this "Standards of Living" and compiling a league table? I'll bet one of the factors measured is the use of foodbanks - but no one can say for certain our foodbanks are only popular because most dole money is spent on fags, booze, iphones, sky subscriptions and smart tv's.... if people know they can get food/clothing at food banks they will. Bulls*** argument. Yes there may be a few cases where people are taking the piss (which the media will inevitably pick up on and paint as the norm), but do you honestly think that the vast majority aren't ashamed that they are having to resort to using foodbanks? I expect better from you hoof.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 20 Feb 16 11.21am

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

But who is measuring this "Standards of Living" and compiling a league table?

I'll bet one of the factors measured is the use of foodbanks - but no one can say for certain our foodbanks are only popular because most dole money is spent on fags, booze, iphones, sky subscriptions and smart tv's.... if people know they can get food/clothing at food banks they will.

Bulls*** argument. Yes there may be a few cases where people are taking the piss (which the media will inevitably pick up on and paint as the norm), but do you honestly think that the vast majority aren't ashamed that they are having to resort to using foodbanks?

I expect better from you hoof.

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Hoof Hearted 21 Feb 16 12.02pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Bulls*** argument. Yes there may be a few cases where people are taking the piss (which the media will inevitably pick up on and paint as the norm), but do you honestly think that the vast majority aren't ashamed that they are having to resort to using foodbanks? I expect better from you hoof. Feed a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he eats for ever. These food banks are making it too easy for the 'great unwashed' to maintain their existence on hand outs. My solution would be for those unemployed to be given food vouchers redeemable at state run centres rather than given cash to spend on anything they want. They should also have to work to obtain the vouchers (except those in ill health). We need to create an environment that gets people in the frame of mind to help themselves rather than giving up or exploiting the system.
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Hoof Hearted 21 Feb 16 12.02pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

I expect better from you hoof.

Feed a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he eats for ever.

These food banks are making it too easy for the 'great unwashed' to maintain their existence on hand outs.

My solution would be for those unemployed to be given food vouchers redeemable at state run centres rather than given cash to spend on anything they want.

They should also have to work to obtain the vouchers (except those in ill health).

We need to create an environment that gets people in the frame of mind to help themselves rather than giving up or exploiting the system.

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 21 Feb 16 5.19pm
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted Feed a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he eats for ever. These food banks are making it too easy for the 'great unwashed' to maintain their existence on hand outs. My solution would be for those unemployed to be given food vouchers redeemable at state run centres rather than given cash to spend on anything they want. They should also have to work to obtain the vouchers (except those in ill health). We need to create an environment that gets people in the frame of mind to help themselves rather than giving up or exploiting the system. So you advocate the exploitation of people by making them work for benefits (which gives the employer free labour) rather than working for a wage which the employer should pay them?
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 21 Feb 16 5.19pm

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

Feed a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he eats for ever.

These food banks are making it too easy for the 'great unwashed' to maintain their existence on hand outs.

My solution would be for those unemployed to be given food vouchers redeemable at state run centres rather than given cash to spend on anything they want.

They should also have to work to obtain the vouchers (except those in ill health).

We need to create an environment that gets people in the frame of mind to help themselves rather than giving up or exploiting the system.

So you advocate the exploitation of people by making them work for benefits (which gives the employer free labour) rather than working for a wage which the employer should pay them?

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the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 21 Feb 16 5.40pm
Originally posted by nickgusset So you advocate the exploitation of people by making them work for benefits (which gives the employer free labour) rather than working for a wage which the employer should pay them? Seems like a plan......
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the silurian

The garden of England.(not really) 21 Feb 16 5.40pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

So you advocate the exploitation of people by making them work for benefits (which gives the employer free labour) rather than working for a wage which the employer should pay them?

Seems like a plan......

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Bert the Head Epsom 21 Feb 16 11.28pm
Originally posted by the silurian Seems like a plan...... Seems like a plan? I think you as far off target as a Trevor Aylott shot at goal! The problem with the British economy, as with the US, is that too many middle class jobs have been off-shored to Asia and developing economies. This has benefited the City, corporate executives, and shareholders, because lower labour and compliance costs resulting in higher profits. These profits flowed through to shareholders in the form of capital gains and to executives in the form of “performance bonuses.” The City benefited from higher profits. But job off-shoring also off-shored consumer purchasing power. Despite promises of a “New Economy” and better jobs, the replacement jobs have been increasingly part-time, lowly-paid jobs in services, such as in retail, restaurants and bars etc. This has meant there is less expendable income. Your plan is ridiculously naive and does nothing to increase the expendable income of ordinary people that will lead to greater demand for goods.
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Bert the Head

Epsom 21 Feb 16 11.28pm

Originally posted by the silurian

Seems like a plan......

Seems like a plan? I think you as far off target as a Trevor Aylott shot at goal!

The problem with the British economy, as with the US, is that too many middle class jobs have been off-shored to Asia and developing economies. This has benefited the City, corporate executives, and shareholders, because lower labour and compliance costs resulting in higher profits. These profits flowed through to shareholders in the form of capital gains and to executives in the form of “performance bonuses.” The City benefited from higher profits.

But job off-shoring also off-shored consumer purchasing power. Despite promises of a “New Economy” and better jobs, the replacement jobs have been increasingly part-time, lowly-paid jobs in services, such as in retail, restaurants and bars etc. This has meant there is less expendable income.

Your plan is ridiculously naive and does nothing to increase the expendable income of ordinary people that will lead to greater demand for goods.

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Hoof Hearted 22 Feb 16 10.47am
Originally posted by nickgusset So you advocate the exploitation of people by making them work for benefits (which gives the employer free labour) rather than working for a wage which the employer should pay them? What is wrong with people being expected to work for benefits? The streets round here need cleaning, there is an old disabled lady who cannot cut her lawn or cut her hedge. No one is being exploited - food vouchers in return for helping out others.... surely that is a better idea than yours which is to let people stay in bed all day watching TV then spend their dole money on fags and booze. My suggestion gets them fitter and out of the house developing skills that might lead to a landscaping career? What does your method do?
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Hoof Hearted 22 Feb 16 10.47am

Originally posted by nickgusset

So you advocate the exploitation of people by making them work for benefits (which gives the employer free labour) rather than working for a wage which the employer should pay them?

What is wrong with people being expected to work for benefits?

The streets round here need cleaning, there is an old disabled lady who cannot cut her lawn or cut her hedge.

No one is being exploited - food vouchers in return for helping out others.... surely that is a better idea than yours which is to let people stay in bed all day watching TV then spend their dole money on fags and booze.

My suggestion gets them fitter and out of the house developing skills that might lead to a landscaping career?

What does your method do?

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Tom-the-eagle Croydon 22 Feb 16 10.51am
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted What is wrong with people being expected to work for benefits? The streets round here need cleaning, there is an old disabled lady who cannot cut her lawn or cut her hedge. No one is being exploited - food vouchers in return for helping out others.... surely that is a better idea than yours which is to let people stay in bed all day watching TV then spend their dole money on fags and booze. My suggestion gets them fitter and out of the house developing skills that might lead to a landscaping career? What does your method do? I could not agree more with this Hoof! Have been saying this for years. "It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit
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Tom-the-eagle

Croydon 22 Feb 16 10.51am

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

What is wrong with people being expected to work for benefits?

The streets round here need cleaning, there is an old disabled lady who cannot cut her lawn or cut her hedge.

My suggestion gets them fitter and out of the house developing skills that might lead to a landscaping career?

What does your method do?

I could not agree more with this Hoof!

Have been saying this for years.

"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit

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jamiemartin721 Reading 22 Feb 16 11.03am
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted Feed a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he eats for ever. These food banks are making it too easy for the 'great unwashed' to maintain their existence on hand outs. My solution would be for those unemployed to be given food vouchers redeemable at state run centres rather than given cash to spend on anything they want. They should also have to work to obtain the vouchers (except those in ill health). We need to create an environment that gets people in the frame of mind to help themselves rather than giving up or exploiting the system. So your response is to put more people out of work by creating an effective 'slave labour' force that will provide cheap labour to do work that other people are being paid to do? Also voucher systems tend to be exploited and cumbersome (not to mention requiring a large beauracracy to deal with) and less efficient than a monetary system. All that will happen is a black market growing out of the vouchers, and greater suffering. These systems cost more, deliver less, have less flexibility and ultimately fail to deliver. Whilst I agree with many of the sentiments, if you make people work to earn 'food vouchers' all you'll achieve is creating lower wages and more unemployment and poverty. Everyone should work or contribute in some manner to the society in which they live (even if that contribution is superficial), and no one should be allowed to fall through the cracks. But in doing so, its important that this benefits the individuals involved and the society at large. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 22 Feb 16 11.03am

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

Feed a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he eats for ever.

These food banks are making it too easy for the 'great unwashed' to maintain their existence on hand outs.

My solution would be for those unemployed to be given food vouchers redeemable at state run centres rather than given cash to spend on anything they want.

They should also have to work to obtain the vouchers (except those in ill health).

We need to create an environment that gets people in the frame of mind to help themselves rather than giving up or exploiting the system.

So your response is to put more people out of work by creating an effective 'slave labour' force that will provide cheap labour to do work that other people are being paid to do?

Also voucher systems tend to be exploited and cumbersome (not to mention requiring a large beauracracy to deal with) and less efficient than a monetary system. All that will happen is a black market growing out of the vouchers, and greater suffering. These systems cost more, deliver less, have less flexibility and ultimately fail to deliver.

Whilst I agree with many of the sentiments, if you make people work to earn 'food vouchers' all you'll achieve is creating lower wages and more unemployment and poverty.

Everyone should work or contribute in some manner to the society in which they live (even if that contribution is superficial), and no one should be allowed to fall through the cracks. But in doing so, its important that this benefits the individuals involved and the society at large.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 22 Feb 16 11.05am
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted What is wrong with people being expected to work for benefits? The streets round here need cleaning, there is an old disabled lady who cannot cut her lawn or cut her hedge. No one is being exploited - food vouchers in return for helping out others.... surely that is a better idea than yours which is to let people stay in bed all day watching TV then spend their dole money on fags and booze. My suggestion gets them fitter and out of the house developing skills that might lead to a landscaping career? What does your method do? Well immediately its put street cleaners out of work and you're undermining the people who work for the council maintaining street furniture, property etc. Maybe a better idea would be the council actually employs people to do the jobs that need doing, rather than constantly being undermined by budget cuts driven by decades of tax cuts etc. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 22 Feb 16 11.05am

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

What is wrong with people being expected to work for benefits?

The streets round here need cleaning, there is an old disabled lady who cannot cut her lawn or cut her hedge.

My suggestion gets them fitter and out of the house developing skills that might lead to a landscaping career?

What does your method do?

Well immediately its put street cleaners out of work and you're undermining the people who work for the council maintaining street furniture, property etc.

Maybe a better idea would be the council actually employs people to do the jobs that need doing, rather than constantly being undermined by budget cuts driven by decades of tax cuts etc.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Hoof Hearted 22 Feb 16 3.30pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Well immediately its put street cleaners out of work and you're undermining the people who work for the council maintaining street furniture, property etc. Maybe a better idea would be the council actually employs people to do the jobs that need doing, rather than constantly being undermined by budget cuts driven by decades of tax cuts etc. What street cleaners are these Jamie? They don't come round here... if I want tins, bottles, crisp packets picked up I do it myself. Councils keep making cuts to so called front line services - they only empty my dustbin every 2 weeks now! Why not "employ" the unemployed to tidy our streets? What else are they doing?
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Hoof Hearted 22 Feb 16 3.30pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Well immediately its put street cleaners out of work and you're undermining the people who work for the council maintaining street furniture, property etc.

Maybe a better idea would be the council actually employs people to do the jobs that need doing, rather than constantly being undermined by budget cuts driven by decades of tax cuts etc.

What street cleaners are these Jamie?

They don't come round here... if I want tins, bottles, crisp packets picked up I do it myself.

Councils keep making cuts to so called front line services - they only empty my dustbin every 2 weeks now!

Why not "employ" the unemployed to tidy our streets?

What else are they doing?

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Hoof Hearted 22 Feb 16 3.33pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 So your response is to put more people out of work by creating an effective 'slave labour' force that will provide cheap labour to do work that other people are being paid to do? Also voucher systems tend to be exploited and cumbersome (not to mention requiring a large beauracracy to deal with) and less efficient than a monetary system. All that will happen is a black market growing out of the vouchers, and greater suffering. These systems cost more, deliver less, have less flexibility and ultimately fail to deliver. Whilst I agree with many of the sentiments, if you make people work to earn 'food vouchers' all you'll achieve is creating lower wages and more unemployment and poverty. Everyone should work or contribute in some manner to the society in which they live (even if that contribution is superficial), and no one should be allowed to fall through the cracks. But in doing so, its important that this benefits the individuals involved and the society at large. more psycho babble Just get them off their arses and doing stuff rather than making it easy to drop out and still lead a cushy life.
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Hoof Hearted 22 Feb 16 3.33pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

So your response is to put more people out of work by creating an effective 'slave labour' force that will provide cheap labour to do work that other people are being paid to do?

Whilst I agree with many of the sentiments, if you make people work to earn 'food vouchers' all you'll achieve is creating lower wages and more unemployment and poverty.

more psycho babble

Just get them off their arses and doing stuff rather than making it easy to drop out and still lead a cushy life.

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Stuk Top half 22 Feb 16 3.43pm
Originally posted by Bert the Head But we are 14th in terms of standard of living which show up how unequal we are. No one doubts that we are a rich nation. But some of us are much much richer in that nation than others. Surely it would be better to be the 14th richest country in the world with the 5th best standard of living? We are currently 9th in terms terms of housing standards and 20th in terms of job security. GDP seems a bit meaningless to every day life really. Edited by Bert the Head (19 Feb 2016 11.38pm) Edited by Bert the Head (20 Feb 2016 12.06am) That list seems meaningless altogether. According to the same data Greece has the 29th best standard of living in the world. I wouldn't say it's in the top 30 places in Europe for standard of living right now! Optimistic as ever
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Stuk

Top half 22 Feb 16 3.43pm

Originally posted by Bert the Head

But we are 14th in terms of standard of living which show up how unequal we are. No one doubts that we are a rich nation. But some of us are much much richer in that nation than others.

Surely it would be better to be the 14th richest country in the world with the 5th best standard of living? We are currently 9th in terms terms of housing standards and 20th in terms of job security. GDP seems a bit meaningless to every day life really.

Edited by Bert the Head (19 Feb 2016 11.38pm)

Edited by Bert the Head (20 Feb 2016 12.06am)

That list seems meaningless altogether.

According to the same data Greece has the 29th best standard of living in the world. I wouldn't say it's in the top 30 places in Europe for standard of living right now!

Optimistic as ever

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