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Stirlingsays 03 Sep 23 4.27pm
Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly Usyk V Dubois. Does anyone even care about the heavyweight division any more ? Another bore-fest, zzzzzzzzzz I'd watch it but the product is overpriced and not value for money. It's like a lot of modern sports.....they aren't adapting to the economy. Their stars seem to think that paycuts are things only common people have to deal with. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

03 Sep 23 4.27pm

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

Usyk V Dubois. Does anyone even care about the heavyweight division any more ? Another bore-fest, zzzzzzzzzz

I'd watch it but the product is overpriced and not value for money.

It's like a lot of modern sports.....they aren't adapting to the economy. Their stars seem to think that paycuts are things only common people have to deal with.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Teddy Eagle 24 Sep 23 1.43am
End of the road for Joe Joyce? He got taken apart tonight and looked like his chin has gone. Moses Itauma was interesting, that's the first time I've seen him. Very quick hands and has some power for an 18 year old.
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Teddy Eagle

24 Sep 23 1.43am

End of the road for Joe Joyce? He got taken apart tonight and looked like his chin has gone.
Moses Itauma was interesting, that's the first time I've seen him. Very quick hands and has some power for an 18 year old.

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Stirlingsays 24 Sep 23 5.18am
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle End of the road for Joe Joyce? He got taken apart tonight and looked like his chin has gone. Moses Itauma was interesting, that's the first time I've seen him. Very quick hands and has some power for an 18 year old. I haven't seen what his chin is like but the lad is seriously talented.....the real deal in my book. Joyce got dazzled by bullsh1t and thought that he could change his style and win.....He's too old and slow for that. His strengths are similar to Zhang but with a better engine.....Zhang though is a good counter puncher and Joyce is too slow to keep out of the way. Joyce had a better chance going for a shoot out. I thought Joyce's chin would mean he would exhaust Zhang in the latter rounds but it looks like Joyce's chin has been cracked. If so, in terms of top contenders he might as well retire unless he enjoys sleeping on that canvas. Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Sep 2023 5.19am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

24 Sep 23 5.18am

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

End of the road for Joe Joyce? He got taken apart tonight and looked like his chin has gone.
Moses Itauma was interesting, that's the first time I've seen him. Very quick hands and has some power for an 18 year old.

I haven't seen what his chin is like but the lad is seriously talented.....the real deal in my book.

Joyce got dazzled by bullsh1t and thought that he could change his style and win.....He's too old and slow for that. His strengths are similar to Zhang but with a better engine.....Zhang though is a good counter puncher and Joyce is too slow to keep out of the way. Joyce had a better chance going for a shoot out.

I thought Joyce's chin would mean he would exhaust Zhang in the latter rounds but it looks like Joyce's chin has been cracked.

If so, in terms of top contenders he might as well retire unless he enjoys sleeping on that canvas.

Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Sep 2023 5.19am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Badger11 Beckenham 24 Sep 23 8.08am
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle End of the road for Joe Joyce? He got taken apart tonight and looked like his chin has gone. Moses Itauma was interesting, that's the first time I've seen him. Very quick hands and has some power for an 18 year old. I never understood the fuss around Joyce. Many years ago I saw him fight at York Hall early in his career. Too stiff and not mobile enough was my thoughts that night. Nothing I have seen of him since has changed that opinion. He was always a B class fighter, I hope he retires I hate to see fighters still chasing the glory and risking serious injury. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 24 Sep 23 8.08am

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

I never understood the fuss around Joyce. Many years ago I saw him fight at York Hall early in his career. Too stiff and not mobile enough was my thoughts that night. Nothing I have seen of him since has changed that opinion.

He was always a B class fighter, I hope he retires I hate to see fighters still chasing the glory and risking serious injury.

One more point

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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 24 Sep 23 12.32pm
The first round and a half of Joyce v Zhang was like watching two kids playing a soft version of Pat-a-cake. Just touching gloves for the first 4 minutes, and no punches. I hoped the referee was going to stop the 'fight' due to inactivity. Zhang's footwork was non-existent, but thankfully Joyce had forgotten how to box. The only credible heavyweights out there don't seem to want to fight each other. "The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 24 Sep 23 12.32pm

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The first round and a half of Joyce v Zhang was like watching two kids playing a soft version of Pat-a-cake. Just touching gloves for the first 4 minutes, and no punches. I hoped the referee was going to stop the 'fight' due to inactivity.
Zhang's footwork was non-existent, but thankfully Joyce had forgotten how to box.
The only credible heavyweights out there don't seem to want to fight each other.

"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

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Hrolf The Ganger 24 Sep 23 1.29pm
Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly The first round and a half of Joyce v Zhang was like watching two kids playing a soft version of Pat-a-cake. Just touching gloves for the first 4 minutes, and no punches. I hoped the referee was going to stop the 'fight' due to inactivity. Zhang's footwork was non-existent, but thankfully Joyce had forgotten how to box. The only credible heavyweights out there don't seem to want to fight each other. Watching his fights against Zhang, it's hard to see how he beat Parker or Dubois but what ever he had he has lost. He needs to quit. British heavyweight boxing has often been poor over the years, but the recent line of big blokes who no natural talent is awful. I was watching a thing about Riddick Bowe after the fight and the difference was enormous. He would have battered any heavyweight around now except for maybe Fury. He might have battered any heavy weight ever if he had been more disciplined. What we are served up today is a pale imitation of What Ali, Tyson, Holmes, Lewis, Foreman, Lewis, Holyfield or Bowe could do. Only Fury might have lived with that crowd.
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Hrolf The Ganger

24 Sep 23 1.29pm

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Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

Watching his fights against Zhang, it's hard to see how he beat Parker or Dubois but what ever he had he has lost. He needs to quit. British heavyweight boxing has often been poor over the years, but the recent line of big blokes who no natural talent is awful.

I was watching a thing about Riddick Bowe after the fight and the difference was enormous.
He would have battered any heavyweight around now except for maybe Fury. He might have battered any heavy weight ever if he had been more disciplined.
What we are served up today is a pale imitation of What Ali, Tyson, Holmes, Lewis, Foreman, Lewis, Holyfield or Bowe could do.
Only Fury might have lived with that crowd.

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Stirlingsays 24 Sep 23 5.50pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Watching his fights against Zhang, it's hard to see how he beat Parker or Dubois but what ever he had he has lost. He needs to quit. British heavyweight boxing has often been poor over the years, but the recent line of big blokes who no natural talent is awful. I was watching a thing about Riddick Bowe after the fight and the difference was enormous. He would have battered any heavyweight around now except for maybe Fury. He might have battered any heavy weight ever if he had been more disciplined. What we are served up today is a pale imitation of What Ali, Tyson, Holmes, Lewis, Foreman, Lewis, Holyfield or Bowe could do. Only Fury might have lived with that crowd. Bowe was good but I think several heavyweights could have beaten him. I watched Golota handle him twice in their fights before being disqualified out of stupidity. With those two losses his record wouldn't look that great....He was also a bit of a ducker. I think Filip Hrgovic wouldn't have much trouble beating someone like Bowe....Fury probably and Uyzk was at least as good as Holyfield who also beat him. Like Teddy said I recommend that you watch Moses Itauma, young but already probably better than most out there. Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Sep 2023 5.54pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

24 Sep 23 5.50pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Bowe was good but I think several heavyweights could have beaten him. I watched Golota handle him twice in their fights before being disqualified out of stupidity. With those two losses his record wouldn't look that great....He was also a bit of a ducker.

I think Filip Hrgovic wouldn't have much trouble beating someone like Bowe....Fury probably and Uyzk was at least as good as Holyfield who also beat him.

Like Teddy said I recommend that you watch Moses Itauma, young but already probably better than most out there.

Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Sep 2023 5.54pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 24 Sep 23 6.02pm
Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly The first round and a half of Joyce v Zhang was like watching two kids playing a soft version of Pat-a-cake. Just touching gloves for the first 4 minutes, and no punches. I hoped the referee was going to stop the 'fight' due to inactivity. Zhang's footwork was non-existent, but thankfully Joyce had forgotten how to box. The only credible heavyweights out there don't seem to want to fight each other. PCB fighters and Fury wants to avoid fast movers. However, it's true that elite boxers got use to larger paydays and don't seem willing to adjust to the newer economic realities. Wealth breeds greed. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

24 Sep 23 6.02pm

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

The first round and a half of Joyce v Zhang was like watching two kids playing a soft version of Pat-a-cake. Just touching gloves for the first 4 minutes, and no punches. I hoped the referee was going to stop the 'fight' due to inactivity.
Zhang's footwork was non-existent, but thankfully Joyce had forgotten how to box.
The only credible heavyweights out there don't seem to want to fight each other.

PCB fighters and Fury wants to avoid fast movers.

However, it's true that elite boxers got use to larger paydays and don't seem willing to adjust to the newer economic realities.

Wealth breeds greed.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Hrolf The Ganger 26 Sep 23 9.30am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Bowe was good but I think several heavyweights could have beaten him. I watched Golota handle him twice in their fights before being disqualified out of stupidity. With those two losses his record wouldn't look that great....He was also a bit of a ducker. I think Filip Hrgovic wouldn't have much trouble beating someone like Bowe....Fury probably and Uyzk was at least as good as Holyfield who also beat him. Like Teddy said I recommend that you watch Moses Itauma, young but already probably better than most out there. Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Sep 2023 5.54pm) Bowe suffered from laziness and indiscipline. He was as good as Holyfield in their fights, but cannot be ranked because he failed to fight Lewis or Tyson. Who was ducking who? We might never know. Filip Hrgovic barely beat Zhang, and he is 40. Zhang would be destroyed by Tyson, Bowe, Holyfield or Lewis and a whole list of others. Larry Holmes was 37 and considered past his best when he lost to Tyson. Boxers now are fighting much older, partly because of better training, but a lot because they can get away with it due to a lack of quality opponents.
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Hrolf The Ganger

26 Sep 23 9.30am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I think Filip Hrgovic wouldn't have much trouble beating someone like Bowe....Fury probably and Uyzk was at least as good as Holyfield who also beat him.

Like Teddy said I recommend that you watch Moses Itauma, young but already probably better than most out there.

Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Sep 2023 5.54pm)

Bowe suffered from laziness and indiscipline.

He was as good as Holyfield in their fights, but cannot be ranked because he failed to fight Lewis or Tyson. Who was ducking who? We might never know. Filip Hrgovic barely beat Zhang, and he is 40.
Zhang would be destroyed by Tyson, Bowe, Holyfield or Lewis and a whole list of others.
Larry Holmes was 37 and considered past his best when he lost to Tyson. Boxers now are fighting much older, partly because of better training, but a lot because they can get away with it due to a lack of quality opponents.

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Stirlingsays 26 Sep 23 9.47am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Bowe suffered from laziness and indiscipline. He was as good as Holyfield in their fights, but cannot be ranked because he failed to fight Lewis or Tyson. Who was ducking who? We might never know. Filip Hrgovic barely beat Zhang, and he is 40. Zhang would be destroyed by Tyson, Bowe, Holyfield or Lewis and a whole list of others. Larry Holmes was 37 and considered past his best when he lost to Tyson. Boxers now are fighting much older, partly because of better training, but a lot because they can get away with it due to a lack of quality opponents. I agree Bowe did suffer from that and I'd also agree that the Holyfield fights were mostly close affairs....though Bowe was always considerably the bigger man of course as like Uysz Holyfield was really a cruiserweight and fighting outside his division. Zhang and Hrgovic are good and with the Peds all the elites use now 40 isn't as old as it should be. I'm not so high on Tyson as some are....boxing is about styles rather than guarantees that this guy beats this guy....for example, Fury's weakness is mobile slick fighters....and he knows it. Yep, I agree that elite fighters today just aren't fighting each other more than in the past....the pay days were too big in the good days and they just don't want to accept the new realities. Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Sep 2023 9.47am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

26 Sep 23 9.47am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Bowe suffered from laziness and indiscipline.

I agree Bowe did suffer from that and I'd also agree that the Holyfield fights were mostly close affairs....though Bowe was always considerably the bigger man of course as like Uysz Holyfield was really a cruiserweight and fighting outside his division.

Zhang and Hrgovic are good and with the Peds all the elites use now 40 isn't as old as it should be.

I'm not so high on Tyson as some are....boxing is about styles rather than guarantees that this guy beats this guy....for example, Fury's weakness is mobile slick fighters....and he knows it.

Yep, I agree that elite fighters today just aren't fighting each other more than in the past....the pay days were too big in the good days and they just don't want to accept the new realities.

Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Sep 2023 9.47am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Badger11 Beckenham 26 Sep 23 9.49am
All the while mug punters turn up or tune in to watch mismatches and poor undercards the promoters will continue to serve up dross. Frank Warren was terrible at doing this and now Eddie Hearn is doing the same. It's in the hands of the customers. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 26 Sep 23 9.49am

All the while mug punters turn up or tune in to watch mismatches and poor undercards the promoters will continue to serve up dross.

Frank Warren was terrible at doing this and now Eddie Hearn is doing the same.

It's in the hands of the customers.

One more point

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Hrolf The Ganger 26 Sep 23 1.01pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I agree Bowe did suffer from that and I'd also agree that the Holyfield fights were mostly close affairs....though Bowe was always considerably the bigger man of course as like Uysz Holyfield was really a cruiserweight and fighting outside his division. Zhang and Hrgovic are good and with the Peds all the elites use now 40 isn't as old as it should be. I'm not so high on Tyson as some are....boxing is about styles rather than guarantees that this guy beats this guy....for example, Fury's weakness is mobile slick fighters....and he knows it. Yep, I agree that elite fighters today just aren't fighting each other more than in the past....the pay days were too big in the good days and they just don't want to accept the new realities. Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Sep 2023 9.47am) I suppose that part of the fun of boxing is the barber shop comparisons it throws up. For me, Ali and Tyson in their prime beat everyone. Holyfield was obviously on roids as was Tommy Morrison, and I'm sure others back then as now. What you can't take drugs for is natural talent. As you say styles make fights, and human beings vary in performance. Two guys fight ten times and you will get a variety of outcomes if they are well matched. Fury hasn't lost yet and like everyone else, I'm keen to see him fight Joshua and Usyk. Joshua is not ready yet, he has too many demons, and fighting Usyk right now carries too much baggage. When the war ends, if it ever does, I suspect we will see that fight.
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Hrolf The Ganger

26 Sep 23 1.01pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Zhang and Hrgovic are good and with the Peds all the elites use now 40 isn't as old as it should be.

I'm not so high on Tyson as some are....boxing is about styles rather than guarantees that this guy beats this guy....for example, Fury's weakness is mobile slick fighters....and he knows it.

Yep, I agree that elite fighters today just aren't fighting each other more than in the past....the pay days were too big in the good days and they just don't want to accept the new realities.

Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Sep 2023 9.47am)

I suppose that part of the fun of boxing is the barber shop comparisons it throws up.

For me, Ali and Tyson in their prime beat everyone.

Holyfield was obviously on roids as was Tommy Morrison, and I'm sure others back then as now. What you can't take drugs for is natural talent.

As you say styles make fights, and human beings vary in performance. Two guys fight ten times and you will get a variety of outcomes if they are well matched.

Fury hasn't lost yet and like everyone else, I'm keen to see him fight Joshua and Usyk. Joshua is not ready yet, he has too many demons, and fighting Usyk right now carries too much baggage. When the war ends, if it ever does, I suspect we will see that fight.

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