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 Stirlingsays Online  27 Aug 15 4.23pm |
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Quote nickgusset at 27 Aug 2015 4.11pm
It'd be foolish to say that all the deaths were due to being forced back into work, but I'd wager that a fair few are.
Of course there are situations where the wrong decisions have been made that have ultimately led to earlier death than would be the case. The point is.....how much responsibility is it reasonable for the state to pick up the negatives within people's lives? A hand out is a hand out and not a right in my book. The state should try to help but in my view the narrative is wrong when people expect a cradle to grave attitude. The state should only offer that kind of service to injured forces personnel.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 27 Aug 15 4.49pm |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 27 Aug 2015 4.23pm
Quote nickgusset at 27 Aug 2015 4.11pm
It'd be foolish to say that all the deaths were due to being forced back into work, but I'd wager that a fair few are.
Of course there are situations where the wrong decisions have been made that have ultimately led to earlier death than would be the case. The point is.....how much responsibility is it reasonable for the state to pick up the negatives within people's lives? A hand out is a hand out and not a right in my book. The state should try to help but in my view the narrative is wrong when people expect a cradle to grave attitude. The state should only offer that kind of service to injured forces personnel.
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| orpingtoneagle Orpington 27 Aug 15 4.50pm |
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The state should only offer that kind of service to injured forces personnel. Don't agree. Where do you draw the line? What about the nurse who treats these people? The civil servants at the M o D who organise them. The compliance staff at HMRC who raise the tax to pay for it all..... The state should support all who need it. ATOS are a private Co all they care about is getting paid not about the people they see. They will dance to the government tune as they pay the bills!
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| johnfirewall 27 Aug 15 7.38pm |
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100% of people die after voting Labour. It's a f***ing outrage.
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johnno42000  27 Aug 15 8.05pm |
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Surprisingly those 100% don't die within a year after voting Labour where the majority of people, who died after being told they were fit for work, died within a year of being told. All a coincidence I'm sure Edited by johnno42000 (27 Aug 2015 8.05pm) Edited by johnno42000 (27 Aug 2015 8.46pm)
'Lies to the masses as are like fly's to mollasses...they want more and more and more' |
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on me shed son  Krakow 27 Aug 15 8.27pm |
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Quote nickgusset at 27 Aug 2015 4.49pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 27 Aug 2015 4.23pm
Quote nickgusset at 27 Aug 2015 4.11pm
It'd be foolish to say that all the deaths were due to being forced back into work, but I'd wager that a fair few are.
Of course there are situations where the wrong decisions have been made that have ultimately led to earlier death than would be the case. The point is.....how much responsibility is it reasonable for the state to pick up the negatives within people's lives? A hand out is a hand out and not a right in my book. The state should try to help but in my view the narrative is wrong when people expect a cradle to grave attitude. The state should only offer that kind of service to injured forces personnel.
But it's not a question of survival of the fittest Nick. These are adults and should be looking after themselves. A government's role is to impose the rule of law and provide basic services to citizens, not paying people not to work. If people would rather kill themselves than think about working then I think that says something about our society.
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| johnno42000 27 Aug 15 8.30pm |
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Quote on me shed son at 27 Aug 2015 8.27pm
Quote nickgusset at 27 Aug 2015 4.49pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 27 Aug 2015 4.23pm
Quote nickgusset at 27 Aug 2015 4.11pm
It'd be foolish to say that all the deaths were due to being forced back into work, but I'd wager that a fair few are.
Of course there are situations where the wrong decisions have been made that have ultimately led to earlier death than would be the case. The point is.....how much responsibility is it reasonable for the state to pick up the negatives within people's lives? A hand out is a hand out and not a right in my book. The state should try to help but in my view the narrative is wrong when people expect a cradle to grave attitude. The state should only offer that kind of service to injured forces personnel.
But it's not a question of survival of the fittest Nick. These are adults and should be looking after themselves. A government's role is to impose the rule of law and provide basic services to citizens, not paying people not to work. If people would rather kill themselves than think about working then I think that says something about our society. Including mentally ill people? I think the society you suggest was tried out in the past.
'Lies to the masses as are like fly's to mollasses...they want more and more and more' |
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| Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 27 Aug 15 8.33pm |
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Quote nickgusset at 27 Aug 2015 4.11pm
It'd be foolish to say that all the deaths were due to being forced back into work, but I'd wager that a fair few are.
Also as someone else mentioned mortality rates for those on benefits is higher than average anyway. It is in fact three times higher, so whilst I don't doubt that there will have been some shocking decisions, the headline figure is at best misleading.
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| johnno42000 27 Aug 15 8.43pm |
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Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 27 Aug 2015 8.33pm
Quote nickgusset at 27 Aug 2015 4.11pm
It'd be foolish to say that all the deaths were due to being forced back into work, but I'd wager that a fair few are.
Also as someone else mentioned mortality rates for those on benefits is higher than average anyway. It is in fact three times higher, so whilst I don't doubt that there will have been some shocking decisions, the headline figure is at best misleading. I'm sorry but 2300 of these people have died soon after being told they were fit for work. That is not a coincidence.
'Lies to the masses as are like fly's to mollasses...they want more and more and more' |
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| Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 27 Aug 15 8.47pm |
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Quote johnno42000 at 27 Aug 2015 8.43pm
Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 27 Aug 2015 8.33pm
Quote nickgusset at 27 Aug 2015 4.11pm
It'd be foolish to say that all the deaths were due to being forced back into work, but I'd wager that a fair few are.
Also as someone else mentioned mortality rates for those on benefits is higher than average anyway. It is in fact three times higher, so whilst I don't doubt that there will have been some shocking decisions, the headline figure is at best misleading. I'm sorry but 2300 of these people have died soon after being told they were fit for work. That is not a coincidence.
Neither you or I know that. Don't confuse correlation with causation.
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| johnno42000 27 Aug 15 8.53pm |
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Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 27 Aug 2015 8.47pm
Quote johnno42000 at 27 Aug 2015 8.43pm
Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 27 Aug 2015 8.33pm
Quote nickgusset at 27 Aug 2015 4.11pm
It'd be foolish to say that all the deaths were due to being forced back into work, but I'd wager that a fair few are.
Also as someone else mentioned mortality rates for those on benefits is higher than average anyway. It is in fact three times higher, so whilst I don't doubt that there will have been some shocking decisions, the headline figure is at best misleading. I'm sorry but 2300 of these people have died soon after being told they were fit for work. That is not a coincidence.
Neither you or I know that. Don't confuse correlation with causation. I know for a fact that the system is causing people to harm themselves. It is wrong and cruel and, much as some people do not want to believe, it is causing people to die. It is also a fact that 2300 people have died within a year after being told they were fit for work. Edited by johnno42000 (27 Aug 2015 8.54pm) Edited by johnno42000 (27 Aug 2015 8.54pm)
'Lies to the masses as are like fly's to mollasses...they want more and more and more' |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 27 Aug 15 9.16pm |
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Quote johnno42000 at 27 Aug 2015 8.53pm
Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 27 Aug 2015 8.47pm
Quote johnno42000 at 27 Aug 2015 8.43pm
Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 27 Aug 2015 8.33pm
Quote nickgusset at 27 Aug 2015 4.11pm
It'd be foolish to say that all the deaths were due to being forced back into work, but I'd wager that a fair few are.
Also as someone else mentioned mortality rates for those on benefits is higher than average anyway. It is in fact three times higher, so whilst I don't doubt that there will have been some shocking decisions, the headline figure is at best misleading. I'm sorry but 2300 of these people have died soon after being told they were fit for work. That is not a coincidence.
Neither you or I know that. Don't confuse correlation with causation. I know for a fact that the system is causing people to harm themselves. It is wrong and cruel and, much as some people do not want to believe, it is causing people to die. It is also a fact that 2300 people have died within a year after being told they were fit for work. Edited by johnno42000 (27 Aug 2015 8.54pm) Edited by johnno42000 (27 Aug 2015 8.54pm) Doesn't help that dwp staff are encouraged to not err on the side of caution.
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