Greece on the Edge

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leggedstruggle Croydon 06 Jul 15 10.06pm
'Greece on the Edge'? We are all on the edge while the EU exists and we are part of it. Roll on the referendum. mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler
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leggedstruggle

Croydon 06 Jul 15 10.06pm

'Greece on the Edge'?

We are all on the edge while the EU exists and we are part of it.

Roll on the referendum.

mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler

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Ray in Houston Houston 06 Jul 15 10.24pm
Quote leggedstruggle at 06 Jul 2015 10.06pm 'Greece on the Edge'? We are all on the edge while the EU exists and we are part of it. Roll on the referendum. The prescience of staying out of the Euro is paying dividends. It worked well for Eire for a while - giving the U.S. an English-speaking foothold in the Euro - but that disappeared after 2008 and it's hurting them too now. Getting out of the EU and doing strategic trade deals is definitely the way to go. We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 06 Jul 15 10.24pm

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Quote leggedstruggle at 06 Jul 2015 10.06pm

'Greece on the Edge'?

We are all on the edge while the EU exists and we are part of it.

Roll on the referendum.

The prescience of staying out of the Euro is paying dividends. It worked well for Eire for a while - giving the U.S. an English-speaking foothold in the Euro - but that disappeared after 2008 and it's hurting them too now.

Getting out of the EU and doing strategic trade deals is definitely the way to go.

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Stirlingsays 06 Jul 15 10.36pm
Quote legaleagle at 06 Jul 2015 7.09pm ps. After your supportive comments re the Greek government,you'll no doubt vote TUSC next time here?They'd probably adopt a similar platform re "austerity" to the outside world and they're anti-EU. Edited by legaleagle (06 Jul 2015 7.21pm) I'm not anti reasonable austerity. I just think what's happened in Greece far exceeds what is reasonable. I also firmly dislike the reality of one country basically deciding upon and bullying the economic life of another. I explained my position a few pages back. It's very possible to be generally right wing but to have also supported the 'no' camp. I believe in politics which, for my worldview, creates the best outcomes for the majority of people. I am not wedded to a ideological position just because it is viewed as being 'right wing'. If all your politics fit in with being 'left wing' or whatever....Then you have become a label.....a poster boy. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

06 Jul 15 10.36pm

Quote legaleagle at 06 Jul 2015 7.09pm

ps. After your supportive comments re the Greek government,you'll no doubt vote TUSC next time here?They'd probably adopt a similar platform re "austerity" to the outside world and they're anti-EU.

Edited by legaleagle (06 Jul 2015 7.21pm)

I'm not anti reasonable austerity. I just think what's happened in Greece far exceeds what is reasonable.

I also firmly dislike the reality of one country basically deciding upon and bullying the economic life of another.

I explained my position a few pages back. It's very possible to be generally right wing but to have also supported the 'no' camp.

I believe in politics which, for my worldview, creates the best outcomes for the majority of people. I am not wedded to a ideological position just because it is viewed as being 'right wing'.

If all your politics fit in with being 'left wing' or whatever....Then you have become a label.....a poster boy.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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NickinOX Sailing country. 07 Jul 15 1.28am
Quote Cucking Funt at 06 Jul 2015 9.47pm Also agree. Syriza didn't put Greece in this position. Blame the dynastic politics of the last 30 years, the corrupt Papandreous and others who cynically feathered their own nests. Get it over with - get out of the pernicious Euro, reintroduce the drachma and rebuild. Ten years of hardship must be better than an eternity in hock to the Germans. Great to see you back in print. Spot on. If you come to a fork in the road, take it.
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NickinOX

Sailing country. 07 Jul 15 1.28am

Quote Cucking Funt at 06 Jul 2015 9.47pm

Also agree. Syriza didn't put Greece in this position. Blame the dynastic politics of the last 30 years, the corrupt Papandreous and others who cynically feathered their own nests.

Get it over with - get out of the pernicious Euro, reintroduce the drachma and rebuild. Ten years of hardship must be better than an eternity in hock to the Germans.

Great to see you back in print.

Spot on.

If you come to a fork in the road, take it.

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kenbarr Jackson Heights, Queens, New York ... 07 Jul 15 3.16am
The decision by the UK nit to enter the EMU was rather prescient given the constant problems trying to keep national economies aligned with EU targets. The ripple effect from Greece is being felt throughout world markets and this is only the beginning. If I were the Germans and French, I'd be dusting off your marks and francs. Thank God Britain kept the aptly named pound sterling. Divorced...And LOVING it! VJRAM Rev. CPFC since Boxing Day 1989 CPFC 2-2 CFC Gregg Berhalter, US International & USMNT Head Coach Jill Ellis, England International & Retired USWNT Head Coach Trevor Francis, International PRAT
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kenbarr

Jackson Heights, Queens, New York ... 07 Jul 15 3.16am

The decision by the UK nit to enter the EMU was rather prescient given the constant problems trying to keep national economies aligned with EU targets. The ripple effect from Greece is being felt throughout world markets and this is only the beginning. If I were the Germans and French, I'd be dusting off your marks and francs. Thank God Britain kept the aptly named pound sterling.

Divorced...And LOVING it!
VJRAM Rev.
CPFC since Boxing Day 1989 CPFC 2-2 CFC
Gregg Berhalter, US International & USMNT Head Coach
Jill Ellis, England International & Retired USWNT Head Coach
Trevor Francis, International PRAT

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We are goin up! Coulsdon 07 Jul 15 7.29am
Quote Stirlingsays at 06 Jul 2015 10.36pm Quote legaleagle at 06 Jul 2015 7.09pm ps. After your supportive comments re the Greek government,you'll no doubt vote TUSC next time here?They'd probably adopt a similar platform re "austerity" to the outside world and they're anti-EU. Edited by legaleagle (06 Jul 2015 7.21pm) I'm not anti reasonable austerity. I just think what's happened in Greece far exceeds what is reasonable. I also firmly dislike the reality of one country basically deciding upon and bullying the economic life of another. I explained my position a few pages back. It's very possible to be generally right wing but to have also supported the 'no' camp. I believe in politics which, for my worldview, creates the best outcomes for the majority of people. I am not wedded to a ideological position just because it is viewed as being 'right wing'. If all your politics fit in with being 'left wing' or whatever....Then you have become a label.....a poster boy. Precisely. There is no one policy that works for everyone. Comparing the UK to Greece at the moment is so stupid it's unbelievable. I'm sure Osborne will try in his budget tomorrow though..! The austerity inflicted on Greece is of gargantuan proportions, way beyond what Spain, Portugal and Ireland have been through. If you think we've had austerity, you're kidding yourselves. It has absolutely killed the economy's demand, if you slash the working and middle class' income too much then businesses will die. What Germany especially are proposing is to now slash their incomes even more. How will that help? I struggle to see a long term future for Greece in the €. It should leave, but there should be a managed exit. If it simply goes back to the Drachma immediately, the devaluation process will leave mass poverty and starvation, the type of which shouldn't be seen in a 21st century EU country. The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.
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We are goin up!

Coulsdon 07 Jul 15 7.29am

Send a Private Message to We are goin up!

Quote Stirlingsays at 06 Jul 2015 10.36pm

Quote legaleagle at 06 Jul 2015 7.09pm

ps. After your supportive comments re the Greek government,you'll no doubt vote TUSC next time here?They'd probably adopt a similar platform re "austerity" to the outside world and they're anti-EU.

Edited by legaleagle (06 Jul 2015 7.21pm)

I'm not anti reasonable austerity. I just think what's happened in Greece far exceeds what is reasonable.

I also firmly dislike the reality of one country basically deciding upon and bullying the economic life of another.

I explained my position a few pages back. It's very possible to be generally right wing but to have also supported the 'no' camp.

I believe in politics which, for my worldview, creates the best outcomes for the majority of people. I am not wedded to a ideological position just because it is viewed as being 'right wing'.

If all your politics fit in with being 'left wing' or whatever....Then you have become a label.....a poster boy.

Precisely. There is no one policy that works for everyone. Comparing the UK to Greece at the moment is so stupid it's unbelievable. I'm sure Osborne will try in his budget tomorrow though..!

The austerity inflicted on Greece is of gargantuan proportions, way beyond what Spain, Portugal and Ireland have been through. If you think we've had austerity, you're kidding yourselves. It has absolutely killed the economy's demand, if you slash the working and middle class' income too much then businesses will die. What Germany especially are proposing is to now slash their incomes even more. How will that help?

I struggle to see a long term future for Greece in the €. It should leave, but there should be a managed exit. If it simply goes back to the Drachma immediately, the devaluation process will leave mass poverty and starvation, the type of which shouldn't be seen in a 21st century EU country.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

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chris123 hove actually 07 Jul 15 9.09am
Quote nickgusset at 06 Jul 2015 6.14pm Quote chris123 at 06 Jul 2015 5.56pm Quote nickgusset at 06 Jul 2015 5.02pm [Link] Well worth a read. The problem is that it doesn't go far enough back - Greece has been running large current account deficits since the early 90's. Haven't many governments run defecits in the past? I take it that you agree with the main tenet of the argument that banks are just lining their pockets on the back of a publicly funded bank bailout that is responsible for 90% of Greek debt. Do you agree that publicly owned services were sold off dirt cheap to raise money (hmm post office anyone)to help finance the debt caused by those that are benefitting from getting hold of public services on the cheap? The problem with Greece is that it has been in deficit since records began in 1948. Even small deficits are not sustainable in the long run. Greek debt, the bail out of the Greek banks are the result of continual and sustained excess expenditure overm income. To paraphrase Mr Micawber annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds, nineteen shillings and six pence, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery
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chris123

hove actually 07 Jul 15 9.09am

Quote nickgusset at 06 Jul 2015 6.14pm

Quote chris123 at 06 Jul 2015 5.56pm

Quote nickgusset at 06 Jul 2015 5.02pm

[Link]

Well worth a read.

The problem is that it doesn't go far enough back - Greece has been running large current account deficits since the early 90's.

Haven't many governments run defecits in the past?

I take it that you agree with the main tenet of the argument that banks are just lining their pockets on the back of a publicly funded bank bailout that is responsible for 90% of Greek debt.

Do you agree that publicly owned services were sold off dirt cheap to raise money (hmm post office anyone)to help finance the debt caused by those that are benefitting from getting hold of public services on the cheap?

The problem with Greece is that it has been in deficit since records began in 1948. Even small deficits are not sustainable in the long run. Greek debt, the bail out of the Greek banks are the result of continual and sustained excess expenditure overm income.

To paraphrase Mr Micawber annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds, nineteen shillings and six pence, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery

Alert a moderator to this post

jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Jul 15 9.42am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 06 Jul 2015 5.19pm Quote nickgusset at 06 Jul 2015 5.13pm Quote Hoof Hearted at 06 Jul 2015 5.09pm Quote serial thriller at 06 Jul 2015 1.38pm Quote Hoof Hearted at 06 Jul 2015 12.25pm Quote chris123 at 06 Jul 2015 12.22pm Quote Hoof Hearted at 06 Jul 2015 12.19pm [Link] Greece wasted most of their money... the above article shows the utter waste of Billions invested in Olympic stadia and infrastructure. I can't find the article but I read about the incompetence and wastefulness of the Athens Metro (light rail system). Overpaying cleaners and ticket inspectors who don't even turn up for work and people not paying to use the system, so it runs at a huge loss. Stop making excuses for these people and stop blaming the banks. The Greeks have created their own financial sh1tstorm, now they must ride it out. [Link] Thanks Chris.... What a joke....... defend that left thinking people! Of the money the Troika has lent Greece, only 10% of it has actually gone to the public sector and the government. 90% of it has gone to private banks, so the idea that this has been caused by public sector malpractice is a total myth. As an example, the cost of the 2004 Olympics to the Greek state was around 9 billion euros: Greece's debt is nearing 400 billion, so blaming the cost of the Olympics is ludicrous. Obviously such debt accumulation could only be tolerated by a corrupt, dynastic government, and certainly that was the case with Pasok and New Democracy. But the real causes of Greek debt levels come from the 2007 crisis, and the idiocy of the EU and private banks in supporting a nation embroiled in a suffocating singular currency with loans they were never going to be able to pay back. For them to now come back demanding repayment is not only undemocratic (as the result yesterday showed), it's a bit like feeding your kid KFC every meal of their life and then complaining that they're overweight. The problem you have, Hoof, is you seem so blinded by your hatred for 'the left' that you are willing to defend some of the most shady, disreputable organisations in the world based on very little evidence, just to have a pop at people like myself. But look over this thread: even people like Stirling and WAGU, staunch adherents to right wing politics normally, can see how f***ed over the people of Greece have been here. It isn't a case of right vs left, it's people vs corporations. Behave yourself. I gave the examples of the Olympics and the Metro system as examples of Greek corruption and incompetence....are you suggesting they didn't have an effect? Have you been to Greece and witnessed the pace of life there? They need a collective rocket up their arses to become competitive and profitable instead of granting ridiculously early retirement ages with outrageously generous benefit levels. I couldn't care less about Stirling's views and WAGU (whoever she is?). I look at situations and make my own mind up and quite obviously Greece have fcuked up bigtime here. Luckily for us, there are enough sane credible people to keep out people like you, Miliband and Balls from creating the same sh1t here. You are so out of touch you believe that Corbyn will be a good leader for Labour and therefore a prospective Prime Minister.... get a grip man. I'm seriously thinking of rejoining labour just so I can vote for Corbyn. As a staunch right winger I would encourage you to do so and tell your friends to do the same. I'd love another walkover for the Conservatives in 5 years time which Corbyn would pretty much guarantee as Labour leader. Not really a walk over was it. The Conservatives so gloriously walked to power on the coat tails of the Scottish National Party.... "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 07 Jul 15 9.42am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 06 Jul 2015 5.19pm

Quote nickgusset at 06 Jul 2015 5.13pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 06 Jul 2015 5.09pm

Quote serial thriller at 06 Jul 2015 1.38pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 06 Jul 2015 12.25pm

Quote chris123 at 06 Jul 2015 12.22pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 06 Jul 2015 12.19pm

[Link]

Greece wasted most of their money... the above article shows the utter waste of Billions invested in Olympic stadia and infrastructure.

I can't find the article but I read about the incompetence and wastefulness of the Athens Metro (light rail system). Overpaying cleaners and ticket inspectors who don't even turn up for work and people not paying to use the system, so it runs at a huge loss.

Stop making excuses for these people and stop blaming the banks.

The Greeks have created their own financial sh1tstorm, now they must ride it out.

[Link]

Thanks Chris....

What a joke....... defend that left thinking people!

Of the money the Troika has lent Greece, only 10% of it has actually gone to the public sector and the government. 90% of it has gone to private banks, so the idea that this has been caused by public sector malpractice is a total myth. As an example, the cost of the 2004 Olympics to the Greek state was around 9 billion euros: Greece's debt is nearing 400 billion, so blaming the cost of the Olympics is ludicrous.

Obviously such debt accumulation could only be tolerated by a corrupt, dynastic government, and certainly that was the case with Pasok and New Democracy. But the real causes of Greek debt levels come from the 2007 crisis, and the idiocy of the EU and private banks in supporting a nation embroiled in a suffocating singular currency with loans they were never going to be able to pay back. For them to now come back demanding repayment is not only undemocratic (as the result yesterday showed), it's a bit like feeding your kid KFC every meal of their life and then complaining that they're overweight.

The problem you have, Hoof, is you seem so blinded by your hatred for 'the left' that you are willing to defend some of the most shady, disreputable organisations in the world based on very little evidence, just to have a pop at people like myself. But look over this thread: even people like Stirling and WAGU, staunch adherents to right wing politics normally, can see how f***ed over the people of Greece have been here. It isn't a case of right vs left, it's people vs corporations.

Behave yourself.

I gave the examples of the Olympics and the Metro system as examples of Greek corruption and incompetence....are you suggesting they didn't have an effect? Have you been to Greece and witnessed the pace of life there? They need a collective rocket up their arses to become competitive and profitable instead of granting ridiculously early retirement ages with outrageously generous benefit levels.

I couldn't care less about Stirling's views and WAGU (whoever she is?).

I look at situations and make my own mind up and quite obviously Greece have fcuked up bigtime here.

Luckily for us, there are enough sane credible people to keep out people like you, Miliband and Balls from creating the same sh1t here.

You are so out of touch you believe that Corbyn will be a good leader for Labour and therefore a prospective Prime Minister.... get a grip man.

I'm seriously thinking of rejoining labour just so I can vote for Corbyn.

As a staunch right winger I would encourage you to do so and tell your friends to do the same.

I'd love another walkover for the Conservatives in 5 years time which Corbyn would pretty much guarantee as Labour leader.

Not really a walk over was it. The Conservatives so gloriously walked to power on the coat tails of the Scottish National Party....

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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johnno42000 07 Jul 15 10.37am
Quote chris123 at 07 Jul 2015 9.09am Quote nickgusset at 06 Jul 2015 6.14pm Quote chris123 at 06 Jul 2015 5.56pm Quote nickgusset at 06 Jul 2015 5.02pm [Link] Well worth a read. The problem is that it doesn't go far enough back - Greece has been running large current account deficits since the early 90's. Haven't many governments run defecits in the past? I take it that you agree with the main tenet of the argument that banks are just lining their pockets on the back of a publicly funded bank bailout that is responsible for 90% of Greek debt. Do you agree that publicly owned services were sold off dirt cheap to raise money (hmm post office anyone)to help finance the debt caused by those that are benefitting from getting hold of public services on the cheap? The problem with Greece is that it has been in deficit since records began in 1948. Even small deficits are not sustainable in the long run. Greek debt, the bail out of the Greek banks are the result of continual and sustained excess expenditure overm income. To paraphrase Mr Micawber annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds, nineteen shillings and six pence, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery What nobody knew about Mr Micawber was that he ran a child employment bureau. Child chimney sweeps, child prostitute, little match girls. The only way he could get into profit was by paying them less than the going rate and employing very cunning tax advisors who put his profits into an off shore slavery market in New Orleans. A cunning, but evil person was Old Man Micawber. 'Lies to the masses as are like fly's to mollasses...they want more and more and more'
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johnno42000

07 Jul 15 10.37am

Quote chris123 at 07 Jul 2015 9.09am

Quote nickgusset at 06 Jul 2015 6.14pm

Quote chris123 at 06 Jul 2015 5.56pm

Quote nickgusset at 06 Jul 2015 5.02pm

[Link]

Well worth a read.

The problem is that it doesn't go far enough back - Greece has been running large current account deficits since the early 90's.

Haven't many governments run defecits in the past?

I take it that you agree with the main tenet of the argument that banks are just lining their pockets on the back of a publicly funded bank bailout that is responsible for 90% of Greek debt.

What nobody knew about Mr Micawber was that he ran a child employment bureau. Child chimney sweeps, child prostitute, little match girls. The only way he could get into profit was by paying them less than the going rate and employing very cunning tax advisors who put his profits into an off shore slavery market in New Orleans. A cunning, but evil person was Old Man Micawber.

'Lies to the masses as are like fly's to mollasses...they want more and more and more'

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Hoof Hearted 07 Jul 15 10.45am
Quote We are goin up! at 06 Jul 2015 6.16pm Quote Hoof Hearted at 06 Jul 2015 5.09pm Behave yourself. I gave the examples of the Olympics and the Metro system as examples of Greek corruption and incompetence....are you suggesting they didn't have an effect? Have you been to Greece and witnessed the pace of life there? They need a collective rocket up their arses to become competitive and profitable instead of granting ridiculously early retirement ages with outrageously generous benefit levels. I couldn't care less about Stirling's views and WAGU (whoever she is?). I look at situations and make my own mind up and quite obviously Greece have fcuked up bigtime here. Luckily for us, there are enough sane credible people to keep out people like you, Miliband and Balls from creating the same sh1t here. You are so out of touch you believe that Corbyn will be a good leader for Labour and therefore a prospective Prime Minister.... get a grip man. WAGU is me Made the username when I was 14 and stuck with it. Live and learn. Sorry Hoof, I agree with you on the last two paragraphs (would laugh for weeks if they put Corbyn in) but you're pretty wrong on Greece, you're just ignoring fact. You simply cannot compare Greece to the UK (as, to be fair, Conservative HQ have done to great effect) because they're completely different nations in different situations. Greece are in a monetary union, and stuck in it. The causes of this are basically down to corruption of the political elite AND the German banks. Now, the political elite gained a lot monetarily from these shady lending deals, and so did the German banks of course. These politicians built up a system (through dodgy backhanders) whereby they stayed in power if the rich weren't forced to pay their taxes. The political elite have since lost all their power to the only party challenging them. Syriza have at promised to fight corruption and high level tax evasion by the very rich. Since you think corruption and poor tax collection is the root cause of Greece's problems, wouldn't you say that this is a good thing? I fail to see what else the Greek government can do, they have exhausted all their other choices. I repeat, they've slashed wages by 40%. Forty! They've slashed pensions by 50%. Imagine if your pension was cut in half! Unemployment is 25%, youth unemployment 50% and all the talented youths are leaving for sunnier climbs elsewhere. A brain drain. This is not any old recession in Greece, this is a great depression. And what you and others propose is that Greece should somehow punish its poor and working class even further? Is that really wise? I'm all for fiscal responsibility, I'm a Conservative, but one should also be compassionate and make sure that everyone pays their fair share. The democratically elected Greek government has been given no support from their creditors to actually fight these problems. Why is it that Germany flat out refuses to restructure any debt? It couldn't be that it would be too politically dangerous at home, could it? Or that their banks would revolt? They're not exactly whiter than white! You seem to support the right like you would a football team. It simply shouldn't be like that. Practical solutions to problems is what is needed. Sorry... thought WAGU sounded a bit like Colleen Rooney or Alex Curran mate.... LOL Sorry also, but I can't buy this current obsession with blaming the Bankers for all the world's problems and it p1sses me off that they are being blamed again for Greek incompetence and corruption. That is my position and I'm not likely to budge. As for my support of the right this has evolved after having a Labour voting, Daily Mirror reading father who was always spouting on and I deliberately took a career in finance and vote Tory to annoy him. But over the years I've been able to vote (43) I've discovered that the left haven't got a fcuking clue about how to run things, especially the economy, whereas the right have. I love Palace I love Tories... what's wrong with that?
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Hoof Hearted 07 Jul 15 10.45am

Quote We are goin up! at 06 Jul 2015 6.16pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 06 Jul 2015 5.09pm

Behave yourself.

I couldn't care less about Stirling's views and WAGU (whoever she is?).

I look at situations and make my own mind up and quite obviously Greece have fcuked up bigtime here.

Luckily for us, there are enough sane credible people to keep out people like you, Miliband and Balls from creating the same sh1t here.

You are so out of touch you believe that Corbyn will be a good leader for Labour and therefore a prospective Prime Minister.... get a grip man.

WAGU is me Made the username when I was 14 and stuck with it. Live and learn.

Sorry Hoof, I agree with you on the last two paragraphs (would laugh for weeks if they put Corbyn in) but you're pretty wrong on Greece, you're just ignoring fact.

You simply cannot compare Greece to the UK (as, to be fair, Conservative HQ have done to great effect) because they're completely different nations in different situations.

Greece are in a monetary union, and stuck in it. The causes of this are basically down to corruption of the political elite AND the German banks. Now, the political elite gained a lot monetarily from these shady lending deals, and so did the German banks of course. These politicians built up a system (through dodgy backhanders) whereby they stayed in power if the rich weren't forced to pay their taxes. The political elite have since lost all their power to the only party challenging them. Syriza have at promised to fight corruption and high level tax evasion by the very rich.

Since you think corruption and poor tax collection is the root cause of Greece's problems, wouldn't you say that this is a good thing?

I fail to see what else the Greek government can do, they have exhausted all their other choices. I repeat, they've slashed wages by 40%. Forty! They've slashed pensions by 50%. Imagine if your pension was cut in half! Unemployment is 25%, youth unemployment 50% and all the talented youths are leaving for sunnier climbs elsewhere. A brain drain.

This is not any old recession in Greece, this is a great depression. And what you and others propose is that Greece should somehow punish its poor and working class even further? Is that really wise? I'm all for fiscal responsibility, I'm a Conservative, but one should also be compassionate and make sure that everyone pays their fair share.

The democratically elected Greek government has been given no support from their creditors to actually fight these problems.

Why is it that Germany flat out refuses to restructure any debt? It couldn't be that it would be too politically dangerous at home, could it? Or that their banks would revolt? They're not exactly whiter than white!

You seem to support the right like you would a football team. It simply shouldn't be like that. Practical solutions to problems is what is needed.

Sorry... thought WAGU sounded a bit like Colleen Rooney or Alex Curran mate.... LOL

Sorry also, but I can't buy this current obsession with blaming the Bankers for all the world's problems and it p1sses me off that they are being blamed again for Greek incompetence and corruption.

That is my position and I'm not likely to budge.

As for my support of the right this has evolved after having a Labour voting, Daily Mirror reading father who was always spouting on and I deliberately took a career in finance and vote Tory to annoy him. But over the years I've been able to vote (43) I've discovered that the left haven't got a fcuking clue about how to run things, especially the economy, whereas the right have. I love Palace I love Tories... what's wrong with that?

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Hoof Hearted 07 Jul 15 10.48am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 07 Jul 2015 9.42am Quote Hoof Hearted at 06 Jul 2015 5.19pm Quote nickgusset at 06 Jul 2015 5.13pm Quote Hoof Hearted at 06 Jul 2015 5.09pm Quote serial thriller at 06 Jul 2015 1.38pm Quote Hoof Hearted at 06 Jul 2015 12.25pm Quote chris123 at 06 Jul 2015 12.22pm Quote Hoof Hearted at 06 Jul 2015 12.19pm [Link] Greece wasted most of their money... the above article shows the utter waste of Billions invested in Olympic stadia and infrastructure. I can't find the article but I read about the incompetence and wastefulness of the Athens Metro (light rail system). Overpaying cleaners and ticket inspectors who don't even turn up for work and people not paying to use the system, so it runs at a huge loss. Stop making excuses for these people and stop blaming the banks. The Greeks have created their own financial sh1tstorm, now they must ride it out. [Link] Thanks Chris.... What a joke....... defend that left thinking people! Of the money the Troika has lent Greece, only 10% of it has actually gone to the public sector and the government. 90% of it has gone to private banks, so the idea that this has been caused by public sector malpractice is a total myth. As an example, the cost of the 2004 Olympics to the Greek state was around 9 billion euros: Greece's debt is nearing 400 billion, so blaming the cost of the Olympics is ludicrous. Obviously such debt accumulation could only be tolerated by a corrupt, dynastic government, and certainly that was the case with Pasok and New Democracy. But the real causes of Greek debt levels come from the 2007 crisis, and the idiocy of the EU and private banks in supporting a nation embroiled in a suffocating singular currency with loans they were never going to be able to pay back. For them to now come back demanding repayment is not only undemocratic (as the result yesterday showed), it's a bit like feeding your kid KFC every meal of their life and then complaining that they're overweight. The problem you have, Hoof, is you seem so blinded by your hatred for 'the left' that you are willing to defend some of the most shady, disreputable organisations in the world based on very little evidence, just to have a pop at people like myself. But look over this thread: even people like Stirling and WAGU, staunch adherents to right wing politics normally, can see how f***ed over the people of Greece have been here. It isn't a case of right vs left, it's people vs corporations. Behave yourself. I gave the examples of the Olympics and the Metro system as examples of Greek corruption and incompetence....are you suggesting they didn't have an effect? Have you been to Greece and witnessed the pace of life there? They need a collective rocket up their arses to become competitive and profitable instead of granting ridiculously early retirement ages with outrageously generous benefit levels. I couldn't care less about Stirling's views and WAGU (whoever she is?). I look at situations and make my own mind up and quite obviously Greece have fcuked up bigtime here. Luckily for us, there are enough sane credible people to keep out people like you, Miliband and Balls from creating the same sh1t here. You are so out of touch you believe that Corbyn will be a good leader for Labour and therefore a prospective Prime Minister.... get a grip man. I'm seriously thinking of rejoining labour just so I can vote for Corbyn. As a staunch right winger I would encourage you to do so and tell your friends to do the same. I'd love another walkover for the Conservatives in 5 years time which Corbyn would pretty much guarantee as Labour leader. Not really a walk over was it. The Conservatives so gloriously walked to power on the coat tails of the Scottish National Party.... Add the 50+ SNP seats to Labours' total and they still fell well short of the mark. It was a walkover.
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Hoof Hearted 07 Jul 15 10.48am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 07 Jul 2015 9.42am