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'Growing racial segregation'

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Hoof Hearted 17 Nov 16 11.21am

Originally posted by nickgusset

Why, has he got a green door?

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 17 Nov 16 11.27am

Originally posted by nickgusset

Why, has he got a green door?

Boom-tish

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 17 Nov 16 2.23pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Nationalism can be a good thing, but in the UK it does tend to get used to justify all the things people don't like and don't want, rather than being about the positive aspects of nationhood.

I've met some, and there are some on here, who have a positive ideal of nationalism. But for many it seems to hide a thinly veiled excuse for hate, spite and their own insecurities.

There is some truth in what you say and there will be those using the new Brexit, Trump world and an excuse to abuse minorities. Those kind of bullies need to be put in their place by the law and indeed those on the right of politics.
There is a more disturbing trend to come out of all this though. The Orwellian idea of right thinking created by the liberal left. It's almost as if Orwell really could see the future. The inability to accept democracy with it's rules laid down well before a vote and the dismissal of other opinions as inferior. It's scary that so called intellectuals can think this way. We don't always get the result we want and in recent cases it is largely the fault of our rulers. They have allowed mass migration against the wishes and interests of the majority and they have tried to manipulate the minds of the people in Orwellian style with phony reasons for conflicts and heaven knows what else that we are unaware of, but people aren't so dumb after all. They sense when something is not what it appears.

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 17 Nov 16 2.45pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

There is some truth in what you say and there will be those using the new Brexit, Trump world and an excuse to abuse minorities. Those kind of bullies need to be put in their place by the law and indeed those on the right of politics.
There is a more disturbing trend to come out of all this though. The Orwellian idea of right thinking created by the liberal left. It's almost as if Orwell really could see the future. The inability to accept democracy with it's rules laid down well before a vote and the dismissal of other opinions as inferior. It's scary that so called intellectuals can think this way. We don't always get the result we want and in recent cases it is largely the fault of our rulers. They have allowed mass migration against the wishes and interests of the majority and they have tried to manipulate the minds of the people in Orwellian style with phony reasons for conflicts and heaven knows what else that we are unaware of, but people aren't so dumb after all. They sense when something is not what it appears.

I don't think this is just a phenomena of the Liberal Left - the right when Obama was elected hardly acted any better.

Problem is, something I noticed in the recent US elections, and in Brexit here, that engaging in reasoned debate rather than rhetoric and statements seems to have died. One of the curious things about the US Presidential Debates is that they weren't debates.

Liberalism can only really work when its reasoned debate and engagement with the people. The issue of mass migration itself isn't the problem per se - its that the vast majority of people don't really benefit, and arguably lose out, as a result.

Liberalism requires pragmatism to be effective - It shouldn't be touting gay rights on the basis say 'right thinking' but from a reasoned argument on the rights of citizens to fair treatment in society.

But that's me, I think everything is a philosophical question.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 17 Nov 16 3.02pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

I don't think this is just a phenomena of the Liberal Left - the right when Obama was elected hardly acted any better.

Problem is, something I noticed in the recent US elections, and in Brexit here, that engaging in reasoned debate rather than rhetoric and statements seems to have died. One of the curious things about the US Presidential Debates is that they weren't debates.

Liberalism can only really work when its reasoned debate and engagement with the people. The issue of mass migration itself isn't the problem per se - its that the vast majority of people don't really benefit, and arguably lose out, as a result.

Liberalism requires pragmatism to be effective - It shouldn't be touting gay rights on the basis say 'right thinking' but from a reasoned argument on the rights of citizens to fair treatment in society.

But that's me, I think everything is a philosophical question.

I think that is pretty much it.
Strangely those who could be considered to the right of politics in some areas, myself included, share many values of liberal and left thinking, but the dogmatic "right thinking" approach of may people on that side of the fence has alienated me, and others I'm sure, and caused resentment that didn't exist before.
The issue of mass migration for example, has become a moral battle ground for liberals with the realities conveniently overlooked. It is also amplified by some in minorities who see any objection to it as evidence of racism which they obviously take personally.

Politics has indeed become more about broad ideologies and self interest and less about details and debate. Social media has created a battle ground rather than a debating chamber.

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 17 Nov 16 3.06pm

See I like right wingers, as they sharpen up my arguing skills. Its why the HoL is better than the BBS - Its more enagaging to argue, than to nod in quiet agreement.

Plus maybe we all learn something along the way.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 17 Nov 16 3.07pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I think that is pretty much it.
Strangely those who could be considered to the right of politics in some areas, myself included, share many values of liberal and left thinking, but the dogmatic "right thinking" approach of may people on that side of the fence has alienated me, and others I'm sure, and caused resentment that didn't exist before.
The issue of mass migration for example, has become a moral battle ground for liberals with the realities conveniently overlooked. It is also amplified by some in minorities who see any objection to it as evidence of racism which they obviously take personally.

Politics has indeed become more about broad ideologies and self interest and less about details and debate. Social media has created a battle ground rather than a debating chamber.

Lazy thinking and soft reasoning, make politics about how you say things, rather than what you are saying. Can't stand lazy thinking and reasoning - unless its funny - it shows a lack of character.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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View Dan1994's Profile Dan1994 Flag Wallington 17 Nov 16 3.36pm Send a Private Message to Dan1994 Add Dan1994 as a friend

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

Thank you for your pleasant opening gambit.... you are a charmer.

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I mentioned Easton as well as St Pauls.... see the above article from the Evening Post (and was highlighted on local TV) about a shooting which the police say they're keeping an open mind on, but we all know it involves drugs. There have been quite a few reports of gun crime ad stabbings in and around Stapleton Road this past few years.

As for St Pauls becoming gentrified I am not yet convinced, but I confess I haven't actually driven through it lately. Montpelier/Stokes Croft/Cheltenham Rd areas are a bit different to City Road St Pauls and immediate environs though. I doubt that you'd be made welcome in any of the pubs there? Having said that I agree that you would probably not be made welcome in the pubs of Southmead or Knowle West (particularly if you were foreign looking or had a non Bristolian accent).

But your conclusion that danger lurks in every city in the UK doesn't reassure me and that demonstrates a massive sea change in behaviour since I was out and about at "silly O'clock on the lash in my youth.

I'm a lovely lad, Hoof, I promise

Easton is a s***hole, but it's always been a s***hole from my understanding with Bristolians that I know/have met. In fact, Stapleton Road was the most dangerous road in the UK about 10 years ago when the Aggi Crew were about. Now, Bristol doesn't even register in the top ten in gun crime (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/gun-crime-capital-uk-been-7375468.html) and Horsefair is the only Bristol street that ranks in the top 50 in the UK in terms of crimes on one particular street (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/britains-crime-hotspots-revealed-50-5852573.html).

St. Paul's is getting gentrified, no two ways about it. My house I was renting in Montpelier is actually now cheaper than my friend who rents in St. Paul's now (went from £72 to £90 pwpp in a year). I been into some of the pubs about, and I never got much trouble, but then I'm used to getting weird looks. One of my mate's went to the semi-famous Fulford pub in Knowle West (I believe)... he said it was an interesting place (and he's a ginger giant from outside of Leicester).

And to be honest, where did you go out in your youth? 60s Carshalton is hardly the same as Easton at any time in the past several decades.

Edited by Dan1994 (17 Nov 2016 3.38pm)

 


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View Cucking Funt's Profile Cucking Funt Flag Clapham on the Back 17 Nov 16 4.00pm Send a Private Message to Cucking Funt Add Cucking Funt as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

See I like right wingers, as they sharpen up my arguing skills. Its why the HoL is better than the BBS - Its more enagaging to argue, than to nod in quiet agreement.

Plus maybe we all learn something along the way.

I have much to teach you, my young padwan.

 


Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Flag hove actually 17 Nov 16 4.41pm Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

I don't think this is just a phenomena of the Liberal Left - the right when Obama was elected hardly acted any better.

Problem is, something I noticed in the recent US elections, and in Brexit here, that engaging in reasoned debate rather than rhetoric and statements seems to have died. One of the curious things about the US Presidential Debates is that they weren't debates.

Liberalism can only really work when its reasoned debate and engagement with the people. The issue of mass migration itself isn't the problem per se - its that the vast majority of people don't really benefit, and arguably lose out, as a result.

Liberalism requires pragmatism to be effective - It shouldn't be touting gay rights on the basis say 'right thinking' but from a reasoned argument on the rights of citizens to fair treatment in society.

But that's me, I think everything is a philosophical question.

It is no longer the same audience.

 

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 17 Nov 16 5.26pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

See I like right wingers, as they sharpen up my arguing skills. Its why the HoL is better than the BBS - Its more enagaging to argue, than to nod in quiet agreement.

Plus maybe we all learn something along the way.

Its not engaging to argue when your friend converts every subject under the sun to a diatribe on immigration.


 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 17 Nov 16 5.59pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

See I like right wingers, as they sharpen up my arguing skills. Its why the HoL is better than the BBS - Its more enagaging to argue, than to nod in quiet agreement.

Plus maybe we all learn something along the way.

You got that right. They have allowed the lunatics to take over the asylum.

 

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