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Palace v Everton match thread

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View southnorwoodhill's Profile southnorwoodhill Flag 13 Dec 21 10.11am Send a Private Message to southnorwoodhill Add southnorwoodhill as a friend

Originally posted by Skinnii

I do agree we need to address cover at left back but I think the issue with Mitchell is not of his making.

If you watch carefully when we attack we change to a back 3 with Tomkins in the middle, Ward on the right, Guehi on the left. Mitchell pushes high up the left touchline almost as a left sided midfielder. This creates an overload on our left, and prevents defenders from doubling up on Zaha without using a central midfielder (which in turn creates space for one of our midfielders)

When we're defending we revert to an orthodox back four.

However this creates issues for Mitchell.

Firstly he needs to expend a lot of energy pushing forward and then dropping back. This might explain why he looked so tired towards the end of yesterdays game.

Secondly it creates a hole behind him, that should be filled by either Geuhi as the left sided central defender or one of the midfield three dropping in. If our attack breaks down and the opposition breaks quickly in transition (as was the case with Gordon yesterday) they can exploit this space. This is not Mitchell's fault. It's a fault of the tactics. It's a risk I think Vieira is prepared to take because of Guehi's recovery pace.

In the case of the Gordon chance, which came from a quick Everton break after one of our attacks, Mitchell (who looked knackered at this stage) was caught up field, Guehi and Kouyate were sucked into defending Townsend and the ball round the corner exposed the space behind Mitchell. On another day we may have conceded but we didn't so you could say the risk was worth taking.

I think this in game flexibility (defending 4-3-3 and attacking 3-4-3) also explains why Ayew is preferred on the right to Olise.
At the moment Ayew offers far greater protection on the right wing by virtue of his work rate and defensive capabilities when we shift to back 3 when attacking. Ward does not have the recovery pace of Guehi or attacking potential of Mitchell so we need a player to hold down the whole of the right wing almost on their own - something Ayew did really well yesterday. It will be interesting to see what happens when Ferguson is fit and whether this will allow Vieira to play Olise knowing he has Ferguson sat behind him as cover.

Good points. I am reminded of the 3-4-1-2 formation Capello used at Roma when Cafu and Candela would provide width going forward and having the stamina to get back when required. Alas these days Ward isn't quite on the same level as those two and right back is a position we need to invest in.

 

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View Phil’s Barber's Profile Phil’s Barber Flag Crowborough 13 Dec 21 10.20am Send a Private Message to Phil’s Barber Add Phil’s Barber as a friend

Originally posted by Mathers

Any idea what happened with TM? He didn’t seem injured but completely switched off in the last 20 mins. Thar Gordon break could easily have cost us. So bad that Clyney had to come on a LB.

Think our lack of cover at full back needs to be addressed next month.

It does yes, Wardy exposed again a number of times yesterday and some slack defending nearly cost us (twice), particularly the second half chance. At least Mitchell offers us something going forward. Ward was not involved once getting forward and it was ALL Ayew down our right hand side.

On that note, Jordan was again absolutely superb, he roasted Godfrey time after time and was involved in so much of our good work. He retained the ball well, set up Connor for the first goal and work tirelessly for the team.

Wilf needs resting. Yes he still shows the odd bit of class but in general terms he is just not on it at the moment. Yet again he walked off without so much as a smile yesterday or ANY acknowledgement to the crowd whatsoever.

He is that underwhelming that people keep saying he must be playing with an injury?! I’m not sure he is and these comments have been circulating for TWO seasons now. Time to give somebody else an opportunity and give Dazet a bit of a break.

Edited by Phil’s Barber (13 Dec 2021 10.24am)

 

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View NEILLO's Profile NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 13 Dec 21 10.28am Send a Private Message to NEILLO Add NEILLO as a friend

Originally posted by Skinnii

I do agree we need to address cover at left back but I think the issue with Mitchell is not of his making.

If you watch carefully when we attack we change to a back 3 with Tomkins in the middle, Ward on the right, Guehi on the left. Mitchell pushes high up the left touchline almost as a left sided midfielder. This creates an overload on our left, and prevents defenders from doubling up on Zaha without using a central midfielder (which in turn creates space for one of our midfielders)

When we're defending we revert to an orthodox back four.

However this creates issues for Mitchell.

Firstly he needs to expend a lot of energy pushing forward and then dropping back. This might explain why he looked so tired towards the end of yesterdays game.

Secondly it creates a hole behind him, that should be filled by either Geuhi as the left sided central defender or one of the midfield three dropping in. If our attack breaks down and the opposition breaks quickly in transition (as was the case with Gordon yesterday) they can exploit this space. This is not Mitchell's fault. It's a fault of the tactics. It's a risk I think Vieira is prepared to take because of Guehi's recovery pace.

In the case of the Gordon chance, which came from a quick Everton break after one of our attacks, Mitchell (who looked knackered at this stage) was caught up field, Guehi and Kouyate were sucked into defending Townsend and the ball round the corner exposed the space behind Mitchell. On another day we may have conceded but we didn't so you could say the risk was worth taking.

I think this in game flexibility (defending 4-3-3 and attacking 3-4-3) also explains why Ayew is preferred on the right to Olise.

At the moment Ayew offers far greater protection on the right wing by virtue of his work rate and defensive capabilities when we shift to back a 3 when attacking. Ward does not have the recovery pace of Guehi or attacking potential of Mitchell so we need a player to hold down the whole of the right wing almost on their own - something Ayew did really well yesterday. It will be interesting to see what happens when Ferguson is fit and whether this will allow Vieira to play Olise knowing he has Ferguson sat behind him as cover.

Edited by Skinnii (13 Dec 2021 10.16am)

Tactical decision are based upon the players you have available to you and their strengths and weaknesses, so I think you're right in your assessment.

Mitchell yesterday seemed to really struggle in the last 20 minutes, but it seems this was possibly down to him continuing playing while having an injury.

Looking to the future, I question whether Olise will be deployed wide right as I thought he played more centrally. And whether Ferguson comes good remains to be seen.

 


Old, Ungifted and White

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View Phil’s Barber's Profile Phil’s Barber Flag Crowborough 13 Dec 21 11.18am Send a Private Message to Phil’s Barber Add Phil’s Barber as a friend

Good post Skinnii.

 

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View Mathers's Profile Mathers Flag 13 Dec 21 11.22am Send a Private Message to Mathers Add Mathers as a friend

All fair points. The imbalance of the full backs is becoming a concern. No doubt Wardy has stepped up this season but his lack of pace is costing us goals (yesterday he got very lucky he didn’t gift equaliser) and means we simply do not attack from wide right as he hasn’t got the legs to overlap the winger.

TM needs a rest or possibly injured. Only other left footer we have is Schlupp but serious question marks over his defensive capabilities.

Need to spend some serious cash on full backs soon as it’s a position we’ve neglected in recent years and relied on the academy.

 

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View MrRobbo's Profile MrRobbo Flag Purley 13 Dec 21 11.41am Send a Private Message to MrRobbo Add MrRobbo as a friend

Originally posted by sprites

Here’s a question: does Andersen get back in the team? We’ve looked more solid defensively with Tonks I think.

100% yes.

JT looked better yesterday, but IMO that is all down to having a ball player at DCM who always made himself available.

To be fair to him, as long as we have the midfield right. I'm now less worried about him coming into the team than I was before last night.

 

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View doombear's Profile doombear Flag Too far from Selhurst Park 13 Dec 21 11.45am Send a Private Message to doombear Add doombear as a friend

Originally posted by Bexley Eagle

I think we do miss Anderson’s range of passing. He can ping a cross field ball to the wide men that Tomkins can’t. But isn’t it great we have options and not scraping the barrel.
Hope Tyrick is ok for Wednesday


Not so much yesterday IMO as Hughes played some good accurate passes that got us moving quickly.

Also as MOTD2 showed in their analysis, Gallagher and Ayew worked together extremely well in getting the ball into good forward positions.

Once again, sadly, Wilf was the weak link up front for much of the game.

 

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View dreamwaverider's Profile dreamwaverider Flag London 13 Dec 21 12.22pm Send a Private Message to dreamwaverider Add dreamwaverider as a friend

When you think we had Andersonl, Jimmy Mac , Ferguson all out. Then Olise Eze on the bench. Rak Saki turnin up every game in the U23, Wilf playing well but not at his best, brilliant academy, top manager, best fans, just proud to be Palace and Then if we could just get Connor for another season please Chelsea.

 

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View rikz's Profile rikz Flag Croydon 13 Dec 21 12.33pm Send a Private Message to rikz Add rikz as a friend

1 win and Anderson isn't good enough to get back in the squad, Hughes, Tompkins and ayew are the best thing since sliced bread.

Cant wait to lose against Southampton and for the pva is tactically inept, ayew shouldn't play again and we need Anderson and mccarthur back ASAP post's to start again.

 

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View YT's Profile YT Flag Oxford 13 Dec 21 12.59pm Send a Private Message to YT Add YT as a friend

Originally posted by rikz

1 win and Anderson isn't good enough to get back in the squad, Hughes, Tompkins and ayew are the best thing since sliced bread.

Cant wait to lose against Southampton and for the pva is tactically inept, ayew shouldn't play again and we need Anderson and mccarthur back ASAP post's to start again.

I can wait!

 


Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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View pompeyeagle's Profile pompeyeagle Flag Relocated to Shropshire 13 Dec 21 1.38pm Send a Private Message to pompeyeagle Add pompeyeagle as a friend

Originally posted by dreamwaverider

Maybe start Eze or Olise instead of Wilf. He is very sensitive at the moment. Ten men would not help.

Totally agree. I don't know what's going on with Zaha at the moment but it's just a matter of time before he gets himself sent off the way he's carrying on.

 

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View Painter's Profile Painter Flag Croydon 13 Dec 21 1.43pm Send a Private Message to Painter Add Painter as a friend

Originally posted by rikz

1 win and Anderson isn't good enough to get back in the squad, Hughes, Tompkins and ayew are the best thing since sliced bread.

Cant wait to lose against Southampton and for the pva is tactically inept, ayew shouldn't play again and we need Anderson and mccarthur back ASAP post's to start again.

It’s very strange, one week we are in a relegation battle, the next we are challenging for a European spot.
All because a win over a dysfunctional Everton, after a run of 3 defeats. Just shows how fickle fans are, one week Ayew should never be in the team, next he is nearly MOM, if it wasn’t for Gallagher.

 

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